Topic: [TO THEYMOS AND MODS] BFL scammer tag? (Read 4196 times)

You're just saying this because your avatar is an off-white sockpuppet.

Again I catch you lying MR-POO'ER

Its a shame you are not mature enough to argue a topic (any topic it seems) without degrading yourself by lying and throwing around racial slurs.

For those that are curious, dont take my word for it - MR-POO'ER frequently falls back on lies and slander when confronted:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2281223

Dont mistake unlimited arrogance for intelligence, this is just a racist troll that hits google for his/her/its info and when unable to defend their position anymore resorts to lies or abandoning threads.

Nah, you're just a racist.

Big Fucking Liars is my phrase, I coined it first

It's not about the settlement for me. It's about the outcome. If it will shut down the scam once and for all and put all the desperate miners waiting for their machines out of their misery then lets get it down and move on with our lives.

Perhaps, but you have a point. Small claims are easier to prosecute and more potentially damaging in aggregate to the offender. Class action is a measure to protect THE RESPONDENT, not the litigants. Other people who, much like you, also aren't lawyers have much much less of a clue.

A large firm taking on a class action could make a lot of money while the plaintiffs, other than a select couple leading the class, make very little. The lawyers get the fame and the money. The victims get... coupons, rebates, a small token sum when the case is inevitably settled?

For any person who feels like pursuing legal action consulting a lawyer on their own would probably be in their best interest. I have a suspicion that small claims for many people could lead to a better financial outcome than a class action.

Clearly you are not from the states? Either that or I would assume (yes making an ass out of you and me) that you are based in New York City.
You see there is only one thing Americans value more than money, it's called Fame. This is why major firms take on cases of mass serial murderers pro bono or as a public defender because even though they will be receiving a fraction of what they typically would make they will be receiving the media attention and publicity that only millions if dollars in advertising could buy.
Why wouldn't a prominent law firm with the staff and resources to take this on not? They will get mass media attention. They will be helping a prominent community that if ever needed again could probably hire and pay for their services. They would receive hundreds of thousands in "free" publicity. They will be the go to firm for future legal support when dealing with Bitcoin related items (which could very well put their firm at the forefront of the future). Plus they would be entitled to 33% of any settlement.

In a number jurisdictions in the United States small claims court judgments frequently award triple damages and will accept cases where damages are up to several thousand (varies state by state and sometimes county to county, also the price of a couple small miners or maybe one or two of whatever they are calling the thing under the minirig now). A number of small claims judgments would be much more damaging to a firm than a single massive class action suit.

Much like mining there would probably be a substantial first mover advantage for those seeking small claims judgments first, taking their judgments while there is still something to take.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer

I think you are completely missing the point. What's missing to make a bunch of small claims into a successful class action suit is a) calculated; b) organized; c) a bunch of powerful attorneys; d) a basis for all this.

Simply renaming the collection of small claims into "a class action suit" does not accomplish any of these any more than the re-re-relabelling of US unemployment or homelessness finds people jobs or homes.


This sort of "I'm sure nothing that's popular costs anything" nonsense shows plainly you have no idea how things work. For your own benefit (ie to get your brain out of the swamp), compile a list of all the people famous during the '90s, put on one column a "famous index", percentile of fame total as evaluated by you and on the other column their total net worth as a percentile of the total net worth of the world. Or, if you prefer ten zeroes after the point instead of twelve, go with a percentile of the decade's worldwide GDP.

You've not quite built communism yet. The currency of the land still isn't "fame". Why exactly do you think the media can't even afford to pay the sort of clueless interns currently involved?

(Since we're doing research tasks to benefit your education, find twenty successful class action suits, calculate the average litigation costs over the set, divide it by "thousands" and report the multiplier. That's how many times you have to say "sorry I'm lazy and stupid, will do more research on my own in the future".)

This would be a grand slam in my book. Put it to an end, before others lose out.

It's not an obsession. Individual lawsuits would be tedious, 90% of them would not be able to surpass "small claims" status and would not have the desired impact and/or implication of the greater picture. The fact that hundreds if not thousands are being swindled out of there money. A calculated, organized, hit like a class action lawsuit represented by powerful attorneys would finally put this nightmare to an end.

I am sure the cost would be minimal as this is a popular subject right now and the media attention alone would be worth thousands to a firm. I also believe that BFL does have some significant assets even if they are hidden I'm sure a group of savy tech people like this one could track down a good portion of those assets.

How is it not free?


Not sure who this tvsat guy is, but he sounds cool.

Are you sure?


Not my statement. But tvsats.

What's with this Internet obsession with "class action lawsuits"? Other than the obvious "expensive litigation you don't need to pay for upfront and somebody else is managing".


Must lurk moar.

I like this forum as well, which is why I don't want to see it SUED OUT OF EXISTENCE. If they continue to accept money from them knowingly after they have clearly been shown to be operating fraudulently, they can indeed be held complicit. The whole "oh we didn't know" honey moon is over. Take old yeller out back and shoot him before he bites you and gives you rabies.

I think that they do not have enough money to service all current outstanding preorders without taking any new preorder customer money.

That is where the PONZI lay.

Let's backtrack a little bit: we all use this forum FOR FREE, so a bit of ad revenue likely keeps the place running (and provides a small incentive for the hours of toil known as moderating).

You can visit millions of sites that advertise all sorts of scammy crap or even give you malware. If you're at all technically inclined, you can block ads. People who believe what they read in a banner ad can't be all that smart... I don't believe a site owner can be held personally accountable for ads they run. Given that the ad relationship is likely direct (rather than via an ad network), the mods COULD turn the heat up on BFL a bit. From theymos's response, it looks like he has done exactly this.

I first mentioned the BFL ad revenue conflict of interest, and I do feel that this issue was addressed. That said, if I had ever sent money to BFL, I would've demanded a refund months ago...

I will not be surprised when the media picks up on yet another "bitcoin" lawsuit. A class action lawsuit worth millions of dollars and hundreds of Plaintiff's ranging from corporate execs, lawyers, entrepreneur's, etc. will make headlines. Especially involving BTC. If there is ever a community that can make your life a living hell, this would be the one. I would hate to be BFL and not start shipping large quantities of singles in the next few weeks. 

You can dismiss it as "dumb" all you like, but there is very clearly legal liability being created by the forum continuing to host paid advertisement for what is legally defined as fraud in the United States. The FTC has very specific restrictions for pre-orders and BFL does not meet them. This forum is putting itself in legal jeopardy by continuing to knowingly assist them in fraud in exchange for a portion of the illicitly gained funds.

As far as "refunds" you know very well they are offering a fraction of the original value of the Bitcoins, to be paid in USD - not what was actually tendered (that is not a refund that is theft). You guys are losing serious credibility in this community by continuing to defend fraud, and you will regret it. Unfortunately the entire community might have to pay for your complicity.


Some related reading:
http://kslegislature.org/li_2012/b2011_12/statute/050_000_0000_chapter/050_006_0000_article/050_006_0027_section/050_006_0027_k/

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/alt051-selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rules

http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/articles/pdf/v08/08HarvJLTech001.pdf

"Newbridge Network Securities Litigation, 225 part of the plaintiffs'
complaint related to the defendants' alleged misrepresentations and
omissions about problems with product quality. Regarding the scienter
issue, the court held that where multiple individual defendants are sued,
"the complaint must apprise each defendant of his or her participation in
the fraud."226 Plaintiffs met that burden because their complaint specified
the statements alleged to be misleading, adequately detailed when, where,
and by whom they were made, and identified facts indicating conscious
behavior by the individual defendants. 227"