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Topic: [TO THEYMOS AND MODS] BFL scammer tag? - page 2. (Read 4177 times)

hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
The conflict of interest here is disgusting. I am calling on the forum to pay back defrauded customers out of Bitcointalk advertising funds, up to and including the total amount paid by BFL. Considering they are profits from illicit activities (fraud), that their primary customer base was forum users here, the fact that Bitcointalk refuses to act to mitigate this damage makes me conclude that is is an equitable response given the additional fact that they are currently ACTIVELY COMPLICIT IN FRAUD. Have you ever considered that the forum might share legal liability in this? Chew on that for a couple of minutes.

Don't be dumb, if people want their money back from BFL all they have to do is ask for a refund. The complaints (as far as I can tell) are that they are taking too long to get the orders out, and they don't meet expectations, not that people can't get their money back.

People CAN get their money back as long as new customers are still placing pre-orders. Once EVERYONE realizes that BFL is a big scam and they all stop ordering then their will be zero refunds because all of the funds will be gone. That is classic Ponzi Scheme, use the new money to pay the old money but sooner or later all the money dries up and you go to federal prison. Just sayin.

So you honestly believe they haven't used up every bit of that preorder money on research, development, advertising, employee payroll, etc. etc. If you think they just put that in a nice interest bearing savings account you need to lay off the Kool-Aid
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
The conflict of interest here is disgusting. I am calling on the forum to pay back defrauded customers out of Bitcointalk advertising funds, up to and including the total amount paid by BFL. Considering they are profits from illicit activities (fraud), that their primary customer base was forum users here, the fact that Bitcointalk refuses to act to mitigate this damage makes me conclude that is is an equitable response given the additional fact that they are currently ACTIVELY COMPLICIT IN FRAUD. Have you ever considered that the forum might share legal liability in this? Chew on that for a couple of minutes.

Don't be dumb, if people want their money back from BFL all they have to do is ask for a refund. The complaints (as far as I can tell) are that they are taking too long to get the orders out, and they don't meet expectations, not that people can't get their money back.

People CAN get their money back as long as new customers are still placing pre-orders. Once EVERYONE realizes that BFL is a big scam and they all stop ordering then their will be zero refunds because all of the funds will be gone. That is classic Ponzi Scheme, use the new money to pay the old money but sooner or later all the money dries up and you go to federal prison. Just sayin.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128
The conflict of interest here is disgusting. I am calling on the forum to pay back defrauded customers out of Bitcointalk advertising funds, up to and including the total amount paid by BFL. Considering they are profits from illicit activities (fraud), that their primary customer base was forum users here, the fact that Bitcointalk refuses to act to mitigate this damage makes me conclude that is is an equitable response given the additional fact that they are currently ACTIVELY COMPLICIT IN FRAUD. Have you ever considered that the forum might share legal liability in this? Chew on that for a couple of minutes.

Don't be dumb, if people want their money back from BFL all they have to do is ask for a refund. The complaints (as far as I can tell) are that they are taking too long to get the orders out, and they don't meet expectations, not that people can't get their money back.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
The conflict of interest here is disgusting. I am calling on the forum to pay back defrauded customers out of Bitcointalk advertising funds, up to and including the total amount paid by BFL. Considering they are profits from illicit activities (fraud), that their primary customer base was forum users here, the fact that Bitcointalk refuses to act to mitigate this damage makes me conclude that is is an equitable response given the additional fact that they are currently ACTIVELY COMPLICIT IN FRAUD. Have you ever considered that the forum might share legal liability in this? Chew on that for a couple of minutes.
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
BFL gets away with whatever the fuck they want.

Just sayin...

Yup
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
I think some sort of warning to people is just. I nearly fell into the trap of investing my money into them, but luckily I did a bit of research beforehand.

Whilst I can't say they're direct scammers, their business is definitely not fully transparent and this should undoubtedly be pointed out. You have my support despite the fact I don't see anything happening as a result of this topic.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
Nah, it was a donation to charity. People did buy BFL devices because of their bet through. Not much different from MNW's bet which caused people to buy PPT bonds to hedge against it.

Yup I see little difference in what MNW did and what BFL/JOSH did.

They made promises they did not meet nor care to meet. Even Josh said himself that paying those bets are not priority right now. Which is bullshit.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
Nah, it was a donation to charity. People did buy BFL devices because of their bet through. Not much different from MNW's bet which caused people to buy PPT bonds to hedge against it.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128

The bet is another matter. I haven't looked into it yet.

Why not? There have been numerous threads detailing the lost bet.

I'm offering 1000 BTC on behalf of BFL regardless of what Tom does.

7 months later and still no donation. Why doesn't Inaba have a scammer tag?

Wait, so there was no counterparty?
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193

The bet is another matter. I haven't looked into it yet.

Why not? There have been numerous threads detailing the lost bet.

I'm offering 1000 BTC on behalf of BFL regardless of what Tom does.

7 months later and still no donation. Why doesn't Inaba have a scammer tag?
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
It's unlikely that BFL will ever get scammer tags for the ASICs because it's not at all clear what a preorder actually entails. I doubt that the preorder agreement (if there is one) specifies exact deadlines or specifications. I think that they'd avoid a scammer tag if they delivered some somewhat-decent mining device or gave USD-denominated refunds within a year.

The bet is another matter. I haven't looked into it yet.

I said previously that I would consider not accepting their advertising if they didn't make much progress within a few weeks. They have made progress. Several people received devices.

Thanks I look forward to your views on the bet(s) made by both Josh and BFL.  Smiley
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
It's unlikely that BFL will ever get scammer tags for the ASICs because it's not at all clear what a preorder actually entails. I doubt that the preorder agreement (if there is one) specifies exact deadlines or specifications. I think that they'd avoid a scammer tag if they delivered some somewhat-decent mining device or gave USD-denominated refunds within a year.

The bet is another matter. I haven't looked into it yet.

I said previously that I would consider not accepting their advertising if they didn't make much progress within a few weeks. They have made progress. Several people received devices.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
It is hard to make hardware. As long as some progress is being made, there is no reason to give them a scammer tag.

So how do you propose BFL settle their public 1000 BTC bet to be paid to a charity (not to mention Josh's 1000 BTC bet) that they would hit their power/speed requirements when they shipped, which they did not?

So far they have not made an effort in good faith to honor this. And this isn't even developing hardware...it is owning up to the mouthing off that BFL and Josh have done to hype their product.

That alone should deserve a scammer tag. It has been almost 2 months since they first announced their first "shipment".




legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
It is hard to make hardware. As long as some progress is being made, there is no reason to give them a scammer tag.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
I haven't followed the whole BFL scandal much, but didn't they deliver test units to some people?

Yes they delivered enough units that I can only count on my finger and toes.

Most of which were sent to PR people and NOT customers.

They may have a half-baked product but all of the lies that have been perpetrated and promises broken over the last 11 months is unnerving even to me as a unbiased 3rd party in the scheme of things.

I would not have made the thread and worded my responses as such if I was not concerned that BFL is being given a free pass to scam and this introduces DOUBLE STANDARDs on this forum.

And to be honest, I do not think of you or Theymos or the other mods as such.

We all know...actions speak louder...

That goes for the mods and owner(s) of this forum. Just the truth.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
I haven't followed the whole BFL scandal much, but didn't they deliver test units to some people?
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
Because we don't give scammer tags based on popular vote to our highest paying advertiser.
FTFY

 I'm beginning to see the truth of this. Very unfortunate and transparent. Money talks indeed.

 I had hoped management of these forums would act as good shepherds of this community.

 One of the pitfalls of having - seemingly and ironically so - a Laissez-faire style of moderation.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 502
That being said, although I am viewed as a troll on this forum, I do also out the truth on many topics.

People ignore me because of that. That is fine. But my point is, people should not discount what is blatantly obvious in front of their faces and that includes BFL getting a scammer tag for renigging on many different promises over the past 12 months.

That alone should get them a DUMBASS Scammer Tag or something special of that sort.


Very true. I noticed after I made and posted that bitcoin censored picture, about gavin making that decision to censor transactions, I seen that I was being ignored @ a rate of [ignores 7-12] from zero. Ignored for telling the truth.

Because we don't give scammer tags based on popular vote to our highest paying advertiser.

FTFY

This is how I see it. This is the reason why I block the ads here, I didn't want to say anything about it in the adblockplus meta thread as it would have been I think offtopic, I don't want to see scammer ads on my browser as much as equaling, accepting it and saying its ok which I am not ok with it. If bfl ads were removed, I will stop blocking ads here. It is very interesting to see different ads for certain opportunity's but the bfl one just takes it over the edge with me. And because of this statement, and above this quote, telling the truth, I will probably get ignored twice as much as I am now of being ignored.
full member
Activity: 159
Merit: 100
Because we don't give scammer tags based on popular vote. If we don't hear any more updates after the next few months, then we'll talk.

Theymos said that in early April.

Hopefully we don't repeat that in the next month as I will likely post about it again.

And true it shouldn't be based on popular vote, but you can not discount the community at large on this forum from being able to gauge what WE as a majority believe is true or not.

Actions speak louder, BFL's actions speak of scam. Pirate delayed on his payments and was given a scammer tag.

BFL promised a 1000 BTC charity donation if they didn't meet their power specs/hash speeds when they shipped. Which they did not. Yet they have not paid their bet. Even Josh has admitted that they do not view the bet (although was done in good faith on this forum publicly) as high priority.

My point being is I do not see ANY difference between the two scenarios described above, yet BFL gets away with whatever the fuck they want.

Just sayin...

Because we don't give scammer tags based on popular vote.

Because we don't give scammer tags based on popular vote to our highest paying advertiser.

FTFY
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
The interesting thing about what I have said concerning BFL is completely unbiased.

I have no stake in any ASIC hardware, and may never will. I dont plan to order from any of the new vendors, current or future as I believe holding bitcoins > mining bitcoins.

That being said, although I am viewed as a troll on this forum, I do also out the truth on many topics.

People ignore me because of that. That is fine. But my point is, people should not discount what is blatantly obvious in front of their faces and that includes BFL getting a scammer tag for renigging on many different promises over the past 12 months.

That alone should get them a DUMBASS Scammer Tag or something special of that sort.
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