Topic: To those waiting for the COVID-19 vaccine.. - page 2. (Read 629 times)

Fair enough! Regarding the "likely to vary by country" point you've made though, as far as I know, manufacturers not willing to assume liability will not sell their vaccines/treatments in countries where they don't have immunity. This is a big concern, however, for the +320M people living in the USA. And 320M is a huge number.

I haven't read any negative news about Sweden/Belarus until now, so thanks for the article.

I'd dispute that. There has been a bit of scandal about care home deaths in Sweden.

This is a valid point. No-one knows how many people have had the virus with mild symptoms or even asymptomatically. This just won't be known unless antibody tests are done on the whole population, which given the shortage of equipment seems extremely unlikely. We can look at countries such as Germany that have done a lot of testing, and yes, the mortality rates there do seem lower. Perhaps countries are over-reacting somewhat now, as overcompensation for the fact that they under-reacted initially. Difficult to know without sufficient data.

The thing is though, we are not just waiting for a vaccine, the main immediate purpose of the social distancing is to 'flatten the curve' of new infections in order that health services aren't overwhelmed. I do take your point though; there is no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced.

This is a concern, yes. There is huge pressure to get a vaccine out quickly, and different countries are racing one another... which does tend to result in shortcuts being taken.

I think legal accountability is a different issue. Likely to vary by country.

I do get your idea, but what is the point of waiting a vaccine if hunger will be a much, much larger problem we will have to fight with the more this "waiting" lasts?

As I said in the OP, there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus. You might argue by telling me that we've never had a coronavirus pandemic before - but what about Sweden and Belarus going for the herd immunity and having absolutely no issue with it? What about the most recent models showing the deaths are way lower than we've been told in the beginning?

Why are we told that "herd immunity is going to do more damage and a lot of people are going to die" if the countries going for it are having no more deaths than the rest?

People have lost their jobs, we are starting to run out of food (read more about meat shortage in the USA which will affect the entire world; I've received some horrible news from some friends working with global food corporations and it certainly looks like that's the way we're heading for.

So right now we have actually two options and it looks different to yours: go for herd immunity and most likely have the same results as Sweden & Belarus or wait until food shortage and much larger issues come in, start a famine crisis and witness the death of possibly millions of people.

If at first I had to take this so-called pandemic 100% seriously, now I have a lot of questions I want an official answer for which include: why are people who talk about the dangers of vaccines silenced? Why are we so scared of this coronavirus if we've officially been informed that even those who died without the virus are supposed to have died from it and we count them as virus deaths? Why do we have to keep everything closed if the hospitals are empty? and so on...

It looks to me like somebody wants the recession/depression to come and we are waiting for nothing. Just imagine if we are going to wait for 10 more months for this vaccine and someone comes out and says "We are sorry to inform you, but there has been no successful vaccine".

Again - the vaccines are most likely not going to be properly tested before their release. This also explains the PREP act, have you seen it?


So are we waiting for something that we aren't sure is going to do good instead of even more damage? If I am from the USA, I give my kids the vaccine and they die from it in a horrible way, the manufacturers have immunity from liability. What the hell is this? 

There are two ways out of this: wait for the vaccine, or achieve herd immunity.

Countries and companies are racing to achieve a vaccine. Partly out of financial self-interest, I'm sure, as the dollar rewards will be huge. But this remains the ideal solution from the perspective of saving human lives - which surely is the most important consideration. The problems are that it will take a long time to ensure that any potential vaccine is both safe and effective, and also that demand will surely outstrip supply (at least initially) by orders of magnitude, potentially leading to unrest. No doubt the country in which the vaccine is produced will demand that they get it first, then richer countries will throw money at it to jump the queue, and poorer countries will suffer disproportionately. The other problem of course is that some form of social distancing will need to remain in place until the vaccine is available, certainly for months, possibly longer.

The other option is herd immunity. This involves letting people die in order that the economy doesn't suffer too much. There is obviously a huge moral issue here. The fact that this is being seriously considered as an option is indicative of the fact that western countries value people largely in terms of their economic contribution. Workers are seen as valuable, but then as soon as they hit retirement age they are seen as a burden on society. Whether you agree with this or not (I really don't), that is how western societies work. Dollar is king.

Two options, both with problems, but I would argue that waiting for a vaccine is morally preferable to re-opening the economy and letting people die herd immunity.

Start planting your own garden and die from none. If we did this, we could save us and others when food shortage comes.

Lifting the quarantine is useless if you keep the same authoritarian rules alive and people still can't continue their plans, their jobs etc. We mistake "lifting the quarantine" for going back to normal. We're not going back to normal by only lifting the quarantine, it's only a little psychological relaxation but the main idea they're pushing for is still "we need the vaccine".

Bill Gates 


Die from the virus or die from hunger? This is the option for many people right now and almost all governments are having a tough time managing the virus and it's effect on their economy. With their funds depleting fast, it is safe to assume that they will most likely lift the quarantine or lockdown soon with or without the vaccine.

Coronavirus. Let's jump straight to the facts: authorities did know about it^[1][2] way before we did. There never existed a successful coronavirus vaccine^{(I don't think I need sources for this one)}. In fact, immunization with SARS vaccines led to a pretty ugly result on challenge with the virus^[3].

Surveillance is on the rise^[4][5][6]. Models are starting to show that coronavirus, in fact, isn't as deadly as TV and MSM is showing us^[7][8]. Meanwhile, hospitals are now only accepting COVID-19 cases and lots of them are actually.. empty^[9]!

We're being told and taught to wait for the vaccine^[10]. I see a large push towards mandatory vaccination laws^[11]. Meanwhile, food shortage gets closer to reality^[12][13][14]. Meanwhile, a significant number of people have lost their job due to the pandemic^[15]. Meanwhile, a very ugly recession is approaching^[16]. Meanwhile, countries which have decided to do nothing about the virus and simply let herd immunity happen: Sweden is weeks away from herd immunity^[17] and Belarus is in no difficulty from the alleged pandemic^[18]. None of these two countries are in a worse situation than other countries around the world.

Meanwhile, we are sitting and waiting for a vaccine. A vaccine that has never had a successful result on other coronaviruses. A vaccine that we're being taught is 100% going to exist in a matter of months or years, but nobody is telling us that it may never actually become a reality.

We're waiting for something that is uncertain, for something we've never been able to create so far, while food shortage and economical destruction is almost here. If food shortage becomes a thing, this pandemic will be nothing compared to the number of deaths caused by famine.

So what are you waiting for exactly?

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[1]   https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/government-warned-pandemic-ppe-testing-coronavirus-a4423921.html
[2]   https://www.foxnews.com/world/taiwan-releases-december-email-showing-unheeded-warning-to-who-about-coronavirus
[3]   https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Immunization%20with%20Sars%20Coronavirus%20vaccines%20leads%20to%20pulmonary%20immunopathology%20on%20challenge%20with%20the%20Sars%20Virus&publication_year=2012&author=C.T.%20Tseng&author=E.%20Sbrana&author=N.%20Iwata-Yoshikawa&author=P.C.%20Newman&author=T.%20Garron&author=R.L.%20Atmar
[4]   https://www.poconorecord.com/news/20200425/technology-to-track-covid-19-raises-fears-of-mass-surveillance
[5]   https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/22/surv-a22.html
[6]   https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-facial-reco-idUSKCN2253CM
[7]   https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-antibody-study-shows-covid-19-far-more/
[8]   https://reason.com/2020/04/17/covid-19-lethality-not-much-different-than-flu-says-new-study/
[9]   https://www.newsweek.com/most-us-hospitals-are-empty-soon-they-might-closed-good-opinion-1500028
[10] https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/coronavirus-lockdown-social-distancing-should-be-indefinite-until-vaccine-is-made/ar-BB12Ixv4
[11] https://meaww.com/governments-will-need-to-make-coronavirus-vaccination-mandatory-rising-anti-vaccination-propaganda
[12] https://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/20200423080658-u-n-warns-of-global-growing-food-shortages/
[13] https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-04-25/beyond-meat-coronavirus-beef-pork-shortage
[14] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/meat-shortage-looms-as-coronavirus-shuts-packing-plants-leaving-farmers-with-tough-choices-2020-04-24?mod=cannabis-watch
[15] https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/more-22-million-americans-now-133030801.html
[16] https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/11463985/coronavirus-lockdown-uk-economic-slowdown-global-recession/
[17] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html
[18] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/22/belarus-denies-danger-coronavirus-outbreak-football-matches/