To what extent are Russians capable of storing their riches in Bitcoin? - page 3.

KennyR

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Quote from: TimeTeller on February 28, 2022, 02:50:20 PM

Quote from: DdmrDdmr on February 28, 2022, 07:59:30 AM

This seems worrying, and a build-up to the pressure on Russian Citizens as a by-product of Putting’s appalling actions. Even though there is nothing tangible yet on the table as far as I’m aware, a week ago Arefiev, vice-chairman of the Duma’s committee on economic policy, stated that the bank deposits in people’s accounts could be seized, if all Russian funds abroad were to be blocked.

These declarations were made a week ago, during the build-up to the current situation, and therefore prior to the set of sanctions that have started being rolled-out.

It would be interesting to get some intake here from Russian natives as to the seriousness of the possibility coming true rather swiftly, and whether the general population is acting upon these declarations in some way to try to place their assets somewhere save.

See:
https://news-ru.translate.goog/economics/v-gosdume-prokommentirovali-vozmozhnuyu-konfiskaciyu-sberezhenij-rossiyan/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://cointelegraph.com/news/russia-to-seize-retail-deposits-if-sanctions-go-too-far-official-warns

What they can do is to convert some of their cash to crypto while they can.
And transfer it to their own wallet like electrum and other non-custodial wallets where you have the full control of your assets.
At least, you are securing some of your funds where the government can't easily seize from your end.
And then, when all things are settled, and you know the situation is already safe, you can slowly convert your crypto to your fiat.
I believe, some Russian crypto users are already doing this as we speak or even before this catastrophe.
Sending fiat money outside I think, is hard now from their end.

More number of Russians were interested in converting their fiat holding to crypto, but they are not having much access as the days before the war. This is a difficulty that the Russians were experiencing now. If they've got cryptocurrency and are moving to another crypto it is possible, but to make a purchase with the fiat in the bank or from other sources it is a difficult task.

Right now with the limited services available the people need to find ways converting fiat to crypto. If people start to spend cryptocurrency and finds increase in the acceptance on needs then automatically there'll be circulation of cryptocurrency that fulfill the conversion of fiat to bitcoin.

wxa7115

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on February 28, 2022, 06:23:22 AM

The Ruble is rapidly losing value, and the Russian government is considering seizing residents' cash.

Bitcoin appears to be an obvious solution for preserving your wealth in this circumstance.

However, is this even possible? What would a Russian do in this situation? Are they able to just transfer their Rubles to exchange, purchase Bitcoin, and then transfer it to a wallet?

And, if so, is it attainable? Will someone who has worked their entire lives and saved money for their family's future trust a strange technique to transfer that money to a USB stick?

The Russian population has faced the devaluation of their currency for what I remember at least once during the last decades, and most likely the number is higher than that, and for what I know many Russians exchange their local currency for dollars to preserve their wealth under those circumstances.

And while bitcoin could be an option worth exploring in the case there is a scarcity of dollars at Russia during the next moths and years, I think they will prefer options like the euro, gold and silver to store their wealth than to use something like bitcoin.

willoweb

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When the whole world is up in arms against Russia, one should expect that it will be disconnected from all financial mechanisms of the West. If so, then bitcoin will be one of those ways that Russia will go to get around all these restrictions in the financial sector. I think that Russia still occupies a serious position in the global economy - and there will be losses for those who impose sanctions against it.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: DdmrDdmr on February 28, 2022, 07:59:30 AM

This seems worrying, and a build-up to the pressure on Russian Citizens as a by-product of Putting’s appalling actions. Even though there is nothing tangible yet on the table as far as I’m aware, a week ago Arefiev, vice-chairman of the Duma’s committee on economic policy, stated that the bank deposits in people’s accounts could be seized, if all Russian funds abroad were to be blocked.

These declarations were made a week ago, during the build-up to the current situation, and therefore prior to the set of sanctions that have started being rolled-out.

It would be interesting to get some intake here from Russian natives as to the seriousness of the possibility coming true rather swiftly, and whether the general population is acting upon these declarations in some way to try to place their assets somewhere save.

See:
https://news-ru.translate.goog/economics/v-gosdume-prokommentirovali-vozmozhnuyu-konfiskaciyu-sberezhenij-rossiyan/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://cointelegraph.com/news/russia-to-seize-retail-deposits-if-sanctions-go-too-far-official-warns

What they can do is to convert some of their cash to crypto while they can.
And transfer it to their own wallet like electrum and other non-custodial wallets where you have the full control of your assets.
At least, you are securing some of your funds where the government can't easily seize from your end.
And then, when all things are settled, and you know the situation is already safe, you can slowly convert your crypto to your fiat.
I believe, some Russian crypto users are already doing this as we speak or even before this catastrophe.
Sending fiat money outside I think, is hard now from their end.

masterrex

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on February 28, 2022, 06:23:22 AM

The Ruble is rapidly losing value, and the Russian government is considering seizing residents' cash.

Bitcoin appears to be an obvious solution for preserving your wealth in this circumstance.

However, is this even possible? What would a Russian do in this situation? Are they able to just transfer their Rubles to exchange, purchase Bitcoin, and then transfer it to a wallet?

And, if so, is it attainable? Will someone who has worked their entire lives and saved money for their family's future trust a strange technique to transfer that money to a USB stick?

Honestly, speaking before the war was started between the Ukraine and Russia I never expect that this will happen very fast, it boomerangs to Russia like a domino effect soon because the Russian economy will collapse many people will put the blame on Mr. Putin and his government and I believe that the war is far from over because Ukrainian resistance is very strong and Mr. Putin is trying to play a Phsywar game using its Nuclear Dildo, and I think the world is united to say stop the war because we are all indirectly affected by this Mr. Putin war actions cause by its Tantrums. in my country the price of basic commodities are increasing so fast due to the rise of oil prices.

Anyway, I believe that crypto people in Russia are not happy with Mr. Putin's decision but they don't have a choice they become the collateral by the wrong actions of their leader, and now that effect was already felt how can they continue to trade and do business with crypto when they are no access the Swift system? some said the DeX and P2P could be the better option by im doubting it because it needs also a bank to handle the fiat and crypto transactions.

DdmrDdmr

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This seems worrying, and a build-up to the pressure on Russian Citizens as a by-product of Putting’s appalling actions. Even though there is nothing tangible yet on the table as far as I’m aware, a week ago Arefiev, vice-chairman of the Duma’s committee on economic policy, stated that the bank deposits in people’s accounts could be seized, if all Russian funds abroad were to be blocked.

These declarations were made a week ago, during the build-up to the current situation, and therefore prior to the set of sanctions that have started being rolled-out.

It would be interesting to get some intake here from Russian natives as to the seriousness of the possibility coming true rather swiftly, and whether the general population is acting upon these declarations in some way to try to place their assets somewhere save.

See:
https://news-ru.translate.goog/economics/v-gosdume-prokommentirovali-vozmozhnuyu-konfiskaciyu-sberezhenij-rossiyan/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://cointelegraph.com/news/russia-to-seize-retail-deposits-if-sanctions-go-too-far-official-warns

Sophiya

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It is this situation that shows the advantage of using decentralized exchanges. A lot of Russians are engaged in cryptocurrency exchange. Most people took care of their money savings in advance and converted fiat to other currencies.

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Quote from: ABCbits on February 28, 2022, 07:06:50 AM

I get your point and it's valid point when a Russian trading with foreigner. But i meant Russian trying to find Russian BTC seller where both of them use Russia bank (local bank transfer).

That may work if the other party also has and account to the same bank. I think that transfers between Russian banks also needs SWIFT.
But yes, you're right, this may be indeed one use case that doesn't need face to face. (I've added now an update to the other post too)

ABCbits

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 28, 2022, 06:50:03 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

While they can't use most centralized exchange, their option isn't that limited. They still can rely on decentralized website and P2P/OTC medium such as Bisq and HodlHodl to find Bitcoin seller though.

From what I've understood from here (Romanian, here's a Google translation), if it's out of SWIFT, the customers of the bank can only withdraw money, nothing else. So I expect that - in a way or another - only face to face trades could take place there.

I get your point and it's valid point when a Russian trading with foreigner. But i meant Russian trying to find Russian BTC seller where both of them use Russia bank (local bank transfer).

davis196

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Quote

Bitcoin appears to be an obvious solution for preserving your wealth in this circumstance.

I don't think so.Gold and real estate properties and the most obvious solutions for preserving wealth.
Do you really think that all the Russians will immediately start buying Bitcoins,after Russia being cut out of SWIFT?
I assume that at least 80% of the Russians probably haven't heard of Bitcoin.They simply won't trust a digital currency in such unpredictable situation.
We don't know anything about the economic situation inside Russia.There are too many lies and propaganda.
Some Russians are saying that many banks in Russia don't have enough cash and many bank withdrawals are being blocked.I don't know if this is true.
I believe that the Russian economy will begin to slowly deteriorate in the upcoming weeks and months,if Putin doesn't agree to a peace.

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on February 28, 2022, 06:23:22 AM

The Ruble is rapidly losing value, and the Russian government is considering seizing residents' cash.

Bitcoin appears to be an obvious solution for preserving your wealth in this circumstance.

However, is this even possible? What would a Russian do in this situation? Are they able to just transfer their Rubles to exchange, purchase Bitcoin, and then transfer it to a wallet?

And, if so, is it attainable? Will someone who has worked their entire lives and saved money for their family's future trust a strange technique to transfer that money to a USB stick?

Russian government has not issue a seizing order yet and they are allowing people to withdraw cash.Big lines are already being spotted all over the Internet in St.Petersburg waiting in line to withdraw their cash.As for Bitcoin they have no way how to transfer their cash to exchanges if they do it through the bigger banks because they are out of the SWIFT,however not all the banks as of right now are out of the SWIFT and if any individual has any account in less powerful banks in the ones who has not suffer ban from the SWIFT can send money to exchanges and buy Bitcoin.Safety is always a problem in Russia when we know how their government is so a hardware wallet which is small enough to keep with you is the best option to save your Bitcoins.I don't see any other alternative to their money except Bitcoin,they need to be wise otherwise they are already used to being poor as a nation (excluding the oligarchs).

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 28, 2022, 06:34:21 AM

Quote from: BenjaminGlover on February 28, 2022, 06:23:22 AM

However, is this even possible? What would a Russian do in this situation? Are they able to just transfer their Rubles to exchange, purchase Bitcoin, and then transfer it to a wallet?

Since Russia banks are out of SWIFT, Russians will not be able to transfer their rubles to most of the exchanges, hence I think that they don't have much of other choices than finding other individuals inside Russia willing to sell Bitcoin for RUR.

While they can't use most centralized exchange, their option isn't that limited. They still can rely on decentralized website and P2P/OTC medium such as Bisq and HodlHodl to find Bitcoin seller though.

From what I've understood from here (Romanian, here's a Google translation), if it's out of SWIFT, the customers of the bank can only withdraw money, nothing else. So I expect that - in a way or another - only face to face trades could take place there.

Edit: as seen here (thanks ETFbitcoin for pointing out), if the other party has account at the same bank, it may work P2P without the need for face-to-face.

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on February 28, 2022, 06:23:22 AM

However, is this even possible? What would a Russian do in this situation? Are they able to just transfer their Rubles to exchange, purchase Bitcoin, and then transfer it to a wallet?

Since Russia banks are out of SWIFT, Russians will not be able to transfer their rubles to most of the exchanges, hence I think that they don't have much of other choices than finding other individuals inside Russia willing to sell Bitcoin for RUR.

Quote from: BenjaminGlover on February 28, 2022, 06:23:22 AM

And, if so, is it attainable? Will someone who has worked their entire lives and saved money for their family's future trust a strange technique to transfer that money to a USB stick?

Bitcoin price has quite a history of going up and down. One needs to have been reading and trusting Bitcoin for long term - the past charts show that for minimum 4 years it was usually a good investment.
But right now? No. One may need to access the money "tomorrow". Also, as I said, it won't be easy to find sellers.
Right now Russians would better exchange their fiat in any other currency. But I think that they've already missed that train too...

PS. Keeping the private keys/seed on an USB stick is unsafe. Paper or steel are better, usually kept in multiple places.

BenjaminGlover

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The Ruble is rapidly losing value, and the Russian government is considering seizing residents' cash.

Bitcoin appears to be an obvious solution for preserving your wealth in this circumstance.

However, is this even possible? What would a Russian do in this situation? Are they able to just transfer their Rubles to exchange, purchase Bitcoin, and then transfer it to a wallet?

And, if so, is it attainable? Will someone who has worked their entire lives and saved money for their family's future trust a strange technique to transfer that money to a USB stick?

Topic: To what extent are Russians capable of storing their riches in Bitcoin? - page 3. (Read 482 times)