Topic: Today is the story of my investment in Bitcoin - page 5. (Read 2557 times)

I strongly believe bitcoin has a great future ahead but, as others have already pointed out, what you did is extremely risky and frankly I would never do it. If you can't afford to buy a whole bitcoin right now you can simply buy a little every month, getting a loan with 10% interest to buy such a volatile asset like bitcoin is a huge risk, everything could happen. I wish you the best of course.

What if you have a stable job but the interest rates of the loan are higher than usual? Would you still have the guts to take the loan? For me no but even if the interest rates are only normal I think I will still not take a loan only to buy BTC at the dip. I always have a bad feeling about loaning money ever since, because I already saw someone else who is struggling to pay his loans and he already sold some of his appliances only to pay some amounts because he is now being threatened by the lending company.

If BTC value is higher now, we can always wait for it go down but at the mean time, we can only set aside and stack some of our residual money from our salary. It will be a perfect timing to use once BTC is dipping heavily as that can also take time.

You are right, Investing in Bitcoin by borrowing is not really a good. Because investing with debt, Bitcoin has the potential of not only profit but also loss. Now if you borrow and invest and suffer a loss, how do you repay your debt? According to me, if one has accumulated wealth, then it is better to invest for him.

Greed or aggressiveness will always be in our minds, but until now I can feel it's better to be able to control myself, even though we can't be separated from emotions, because that's human nature. from understanding the characteristics of bitcoin regarding the bullish or bearish season, we will be more comfortable in reacting to it and of course fluctuations are not an obstacle, if what we hold is bitcoin. let's say for example when it's bearish, why are we selling, isn't it better to look for a buy position to collect assets. hence the need to put cold money into action

Of course, there is some need to tailor whatever level of aggression that you decide to take in order that you don't go overboard in such a way that you are not able to cover your expenses and/or the servicing of any loan that you might end up getting to buy BTC.

For sure, getting a loan is not for everyone, and especially it might not be for someone who does not have a clear and certain enough of a cashflow to be able to service the loan and to pay it off at the end of its term.  It is also not free, so it already builds in some fees (and interest rate too) just to be able to enter into the relationship in which someone gives the loan... some of the better loans have real low interest rates and long periods, but of course, frequently it can be difficult to negotiate such favorable terms, and some people will be in better situations to be able to negotiate favorable terms and even in recent times, there are a lot of situations in which the terms of loans are not very favorable, but sometimes there still could be situations in which any of us might be able to get favorable loan terms..

And even NOT having favorable loan terms would not necessarily preclude the entering into a loan that any of us might consider has good odds of having terms in which we believe that we are going to be able to earn more by putting the money to use in ways that we want (including possibly buying BTC with the lended money). 

It's not an automatic yes or no answer, yet frequently people want to get into loans, and maybe they have not even attempted more basic approaches first, and surely with bitcoin we have seen that someone investing 4-10 years or longer may well be able to invest relatively modest amounts and to have been able to profit stupendously from that and another thing with long term wealth frequently it can take 20 to 30 or more years to build and some people never get there because they are engaging in the more risky strategies rather than ironing out and employing more basic strategies first, and bitcoin is one of those investments that allow anyone to enter and anyone can invest even relatively low amounts of value on a regular basis and to end up building more and more with the passage of time, and traditional investments had not necessarily been as friendly in regards to being able to regularly invest relatively modest amounts.. whether that is $100 per week or $10 per week or some other amount that is chosen by the person investing.. and if s/he can find ways to buy BTC with low fees (or low transaction costs), perhaps?


That's not true.

There are a lot of folks who have invested into bitcoin over the last 13 years or so, and surely the evidence shows the longer into bitcoin, and perhaps without selling too much BTC along the way, then the better off that people have done with their bitcoin investment, and so yeah sometimes overly greedy people ended up getting punished for their being greedy, and those are not necessarily ONLY bitcoin stories because some of those people were either fucking around with shitcoins or putting their BTC into yield products in which others were fucking around with their BTC and might not have even had their BTC because they were gambling with other people's BTC... so yeah, it may well have not been good to be getting involved with those kinds of risky products, but getting involved with BTC has generally been a good thing for those who have been in longer and who have errored on the side of BTC accumulation and holding and perhaps not selling too much of their BTC along the way, too.

I don't know where they get the courage to do this type of investment. Borrowing for a risky investment and also bitcoin price is very volatile. People only do that out of pure greed and lack of knowledge. They only see the profit and ignore other side of bitcoin investment.

Only if you have money to lose, invest them in bitcoin.

So in this condition, if I look at the overall strategy, it is clear that it is very important in this regard. Indeed, in some cases being greedy especially for bitcoin can still be said to be good but of course there are strategies and moments that must be seen because not all greed to be in bitcoin can be good and one of the reasons is as you said when everything is too much in terms of "crybaby or aggressive" not everything will go well.
On the other hand, standing too far and leaving is also not the right choice, we need to balance this so that in the end we can be wiser in taking action and taking advantage of every available momentum.

This indirectly comes back to everyone's strategy. Even though borrowing money is actually not wrong as long as we are able to be accountable but this goes back to the strategy and level of courage of course.
I think borrowing as you say is still possible with a long enough duration it will most likely be very worthy of profit but the problem is when we go back to everyone's strategy and perspective obviously this will consider right and wrong depending on how we respond to it.
I personally don't really like this method but it is still feasible, it's just that I choose another way to fatten my portfolio by means of DCA and of course taking advantage of the momentum in every downturn.
Regardless of whether debt is recommended or not I think everyone has their own perspective and as long as it is within reasonable limits and the goal is for btc I will like it

Front loading can make the achievement of the goal more certain, and I am not even talking about having to pay off the proceeds from the appreciation of the BTC price.

We can change some of the circumstances of OP (we do not even know all of the terms of the loans, exactly), but to suggest that a couple of loans are entered into that allow for the buying of BTC at $20k, and the payment terms could allow the payment over a couple of years or even over 5 years, so it may well be a good idea to lock in the buying of 1 BTC and then to just pay off the loan in whatever the period might be between 2-5 years (and it seems OP's terms were not so favorable, but if the term was 5 years.. then payments could be spread out for those 5 years, and for sure 1 BTC is achieved).. Part of OP's problem seems to be an expectation to pay off the loan with the appreciation of BTC rather than with other cashflow that he might have.

For sure, I do like DCA, buying on dips and lump sum buying with money as it comes in, but surely there can be ways to buttress buying strategies with a loan to supplement some front loading of the purchase of the BTC at a given time, but that might not guarantee that you are doing the best in terms of the BTC purchase price, even though it does end up locking in the BTC purchase price for those particular BTC that were bought "early" by the loan. 

Sometimes poor people do not use loans effectively because they expect to pay off with the earnings from their asset, rather than assuring that they have various sources of funds, and sure maybe I should not only accuse poor people of such issues, because rich people get greedy too and we might ONLY be able to verify that they screwed up when the whole project comes crumbling down because they either lost momentum in the project in terms of cashflow coming in, or they might not have had been sufficiently hedged in terms of having funds from other areas that could be used to fund projects in which the cashflow might be uncertain.. and surely there are some funds that purposefully engage in such risky projects and may well end up leaving others holding the bag while they are able to lock in their own personal profits, so even if various entities around them end up suffering when the project falls, the one who structured the loans and the deal are able to ensure that they get paid.

There are a variety of ways to use debt, and at the same time there is not necessarily any need to scam anyone else in terms of being able to pay back the loan and to front load the investment when there are ways to have high levels of confidence about future cashflows that are not necessarily reliant on the investment  (in this case BTC) going up in value during the period of the loan.. and so that remains part of the risk.. that is not always clear in terms of what are the odds that it will actually pay off for the period of the loan... even if there ends up being some fluctuation in price (BTC here) along the way that may or may not end up recovering during the period of the loan.

It can be said that borrowing money to invest is not advisable, but if someone is confident that they will be able to repay the loan even if their investment is not favorable, then they can borrow. We should have calculations to suit our circumstances and have reasonable plans.
If you do not have a stable job or your income is not high, you should not imitate others to borrow money to invest in bitcoin. There are many ways to achieve 1BTC without having to borrow money, as long as you persevere and work hard every day, you will reach the goal.

You are doing a very brave thing in this case because making a big decision like this definitely takes courage to do even if it is for the purpose of buying bitcoins that are worth it.
That is 1 btc that is indeed a dream, I also want that but indeed my conditions may be quite different because I am not too brave like this by trying to borrow from the bank and pay installments every month. I am now still trying to collect 1 btc but still in the same way as before DCA because indeed this is the action that I think is most suitable for the current conditions even though it can indeed be done like you did but I don't want to go straight like that because I think dealing with loans, especially in terms of banks, is a little troublesome in my opinion.

From the opinion of some people, it seems like Op took a wrong decision to take the loans he involved himself with just to buy Bitcoin, but often times these kinds of decisions really do pay off well. But Bitcoin investment is better when one has a calm mind and accumulates slowly without being under investment pressure. Had OP even started by doing DCA, he would have also had a better chance to buy more BTC when the price was at $16k.

I would not even advise anyone to take such a step because they would end up blaming me for having their support. In 2021, when a friend asked me if they could invest in Bitcoin and I said yes, they did so, hoping to see Bitcoin get to $100,000 in 2021, but instead the market dumped, and I took the blame for just the advice.

OP may have been successful in his decision in just about 10 months. If he repays the bank loan with 10% ($11,000) interest and the loan from his uncle with 8% ($4,320) interest, then he is left with 17%, which is about $6,600, good profit. From OP, what I also fail to understand is the period he was supposed to repay those loans with interest; he did not state whether it was supposed to be within a one-year period or just five months, because if he has not repay in the agreed period, then he will have additional interet to his loan repayment.

Prior to March 2020, I used to recommend that anyone starting in bitcoin should consider investing anywhere between 1% and 10% of his/her investment portfolio (and perhaps cashflow) into bitcoin, but then some time after March 2020, I started to recommend that the percentage for the beginner newbie into bitcoin should consider somewhere between 1% and 25% into bitcoin, and of course, one aspect of bitcoin, is that it is an asymmetric bet (investment) to the upside and therefore, it may well not take very much allocation into bitcoin in order to potentially profit stupendously..

So, yeah, like you are seeming to say nara1892, there can be some advantage to finding some kind of an investment point in which you are feeling sufficiently aggressive in your investment into BTC because if you are too whimpy, then even if BTC goes up a lot, the whimpiness of the investment may well end up not making up for the fact that the there really was not enough there to actually make meaningful profits, and a similar thing could be true for those people who end up investing too much, and then when the BTC price moves against their position and then fails to go up for a long time, they end up getting reckt.. or maybe even having to sell a lot (or maybe even all) of their BTC.

So yeah there may well be a decently broad range of balance that still is going to be able to work in order to become richie as fuck (without guarantees of course), but at the same time if you are either too far on one side (such as too whimpy) or the other (such as too aggressive) then you end up either not really profiting with any significance, or you end up losing most or all of your investment (or having to start back up over again from a worse position than if you had been more prudent and conservative rather than gambling with your investment into bitcoin by engaging in overly risky conduct).

You did not say bad, although if the story of his investment is true, then now he can earn over 35% interest or profit from that fund if he wishes. But it is not always the case that the decision making by everyone will be good and the market condition will be the same for everyone. Trading already puts people on the road from a good position whereas when one trades through a loan his situation is almost life threatening.
OP has already broken the basic rules of trading, which is to invest as much as you can afford to lose. I hope he will be successful in booking his profit but everyone else will have a suggestion not to take such a decision.  But if you have a lazy fund, then that fund can be used for investment for Bitcoin, and for long-term trading, you must not use any exchanger, according to you, there is a possibility to crash here, there is an easy way already that hardware wallet to use

My mistake in choosing words, I revise my previous words because bitcoin is always worth buying and I admit that

Actually when it comes to life insurance and investing in bitcoin I think that's a lot to talk about and the answer is still the same. All forms that are passed in life, of course, there is no real guarantee as well as for investment, there must be a risk that must be taken. As for being in bitcoin, I think when people who invest here are smart enough to know the risks of this and indeed the greater the risk taken, when we have reached a point where we have successfully passed that risk, everything will be more valuable and of course the profit is bigger too.

Though you have told a successful story but I can't encourage anyone to invest in Bitcoin by taking a loan. Because it's the. Most risky investment as we know anything can be happened in this market. Market may be crashed if any exchange hacked or being manipulated by whales. So I won't suggest anyone to take loan and invest on it. We should be aware about the disadvantages of Crypto investment. Anyway Good Luck to OP hope he could make a huge profit from his investment.

When we buy BTC with a loan, we are front loading our investment , so yeah, if the BTC price goes up higher than the amount to service the loan, then it ends up being profitable to have had invested into BTC earlier rather than later. 


That is not good advice.  It is actually bad advise - given so many problems with those earn and yield products and so many ways that people got fucked with the various ways of chasing yield.

Bitcoin remains one of the best, if not the best investment, so it is not necessarily good to let someone else hold it for you, which is what is required when you try to earn yield or interest on it... so one of the better pieces of advice is to figure out ways that you do not lose your bitcoin along the way, so if you are investing 4-10 years or more into bitcoin, then perhaps it is best to have goals to either try to build the quantity of bitcoin that you have or at least to mostly be able to hold most of your bitcoin for long periods of time.. and of course, there is nothing wrong with taking some profits along the way, if the BTC price goes up and to have some ideas of amounts of bitcoin that might be sold at certain price points on the way up, if the BTC price does end up going up in the coming years during the time that you expect to be invested into it.


Protip:  Bitcoin is always worth buying.^**

The fact of the matter is that bitcoin has been a great investment for as long as it has been in existence, and there is no real evidence that it's investment thesis is getting weaker with the passage of time, and instead, the evidence seems to show that the investment case for bitcoin seems to be getting stronger rather than weaker, even if the amount of price appreciation (in terms of percentage of price rise) may well not be as  high as it had been in the past 10 years or so.

Of course, there are no guarantees in life, including in terms of where to invest, how to invest and how much to invest, and each of us need to make these kinds of choices based upon where we are currently at and our own financial and psychological circumstances, and we are not all going to come to the same conclusions even if we might be in similar circumstances as some other people, and so the risk/reward is going to vary, and part of the risk/reward may well have to do with personal decisions in regards to whether and how to act, including that failing/refusing to act is a kind of decision as well, and there are consequences for failing/refusing to act, too.


** This is not financial advice.. and may well even be an exaggeration in order to make a point to be more salient... You are totally and completely responsible for your own situation and decisions about what you do or not do regarding finances, psychology or otherwise.

To be honest in this case what you are doing is quite good by buying bitcoin but indeed by buying risking and even borrowing I probably wouldn't do something like this.
I prefer to be in something safe and even though bitcoin is indeed risky I still don't want to be preoccupied with debt so I prefer to buy from the money I have and I consider it as money that is not really used rather than having to borrow money first from the bank .
Even though this is just a difference in perspective, I appreciate your decision to have the courage to do this in conditions where bitcoin is actually still worth buying.

I always had hard time convincing myself to buy Bitcoin with a loan from bank. Eventually I bought some around 20-21k levels with something like 1k usd loan with 0.5% interest. It definitely doesn't kill me because I work so I have fixed income. But as I explained, if rates are not good enough and you are not having good income its best to not buy Bitcoin with a loan. I wish you best with your purchase. I guess you (OP) already made profit as price is higher now. Also its best to put that Bitcoin into earn program so you can generate more for future.

I do agree with you senior @mk4 and I really don't think there is any need for the quest to borrow just to invest in what is very volatile like Bitcoin but one funny thing is that your future profit seems very much possible since you already got one Bitcoin and there isn't any much need  to panic since you already own one fraction of Bitcoin and since it's price(Bitcoin) wouldn't fall to zero, it simply means you wouldn't get liquidated.

@OP though it is a thing of joy to have acquire Bitcoin, but I don't think it is necessary for you to have borrowed money just to invest which also means that the money you used, probably you can't afford to lose it just incase things don't go as expected which isn't right but all the same congrats to you.