Topic: Today is the story of my investment in Bitcoin - page 6. (Read 2557 times)

My opinion, Make sure to keep an eye on the market and don't get too carried away by excitement. After all, investing can be a rollercoaster ride. By Taking out a loan and borrowing from your uncle to buy Bitcoin, It's like talking about living on the edge.

But, It's true, sometimes we have to take risks to reap the rewards, right? And with a profit potential of 100% to 500% in just two years, I thought it might be possible but I like your guts and you've just made a smart move. So buckle up and enjoy the ride!

What distinguishes gambling from investing is the people themselves, investing takes a long time to get involved and a strategy is needed in choosing the assets we want to invest. Whereas gambling has a slightly shorter time frame, it generally involves betting fate and having no pattern to follow.

The outline between gambling and investment is different, but in some dimensions they may have similarities in speculation, this closeness makes it difficult for people to distinguish, even though the two are clearly different in practice.

Slight difference in terms of language, but the point is that banks still offer terms that are so out of date or let's say they are no longer as attractive as you say, speaking of advantages I think are relative, they will not have the same function between each other.

For example, entrepreneurs take loans from banks, meaning they need capital to develop the companies they run and they have reserve capital in case something unexpected happens. Meanwhile, for ordinary people who do not have a spare cost before taking a loan at a bank, it will actually make life difficult when forced to take a loan. Even though in the strategy you want to do, the money will be used for investment.

I choose not to accept any loans, In this case we have the same perception.!!!!

I don't think that banks are offering outdated methods for loans, but they might be offering loan terms that are NOT attractive.. so you have to decide if you believe that it is to your advantage to enter into such loan or not.   If the terms of the loans are fixed, then that is much easier to figure out rather than some real estate loans that are offered these days in which the rate is adjustable.  Personally, I would NOT enter into any loan that is adjustable.


Even if you "invest" rather than "gamble," that does not guarantee that you are going to make profits, even if you have a long timeline of 4-10 years or more.

Of course, if we are investing into any asset for 4-10 years or longer, we want to attempt to calculate in order to come to a prediction that we believe that there are decent odds that our investment will have better chances of increasing in value as compared if we had not invested into it or as compared to if we had invested into some other asset class.  We do not know with confidence, so in that regard we are making a prediction based on information that we know at the time that we get started, and we are also not necessarily locked in for 4-10 years or more, even if our initial plan we decide to "self-lock" ourselves into the investment, yet since we are in charge of ourselves, we can decide to change our minds along the way, too. 

A lot of people make mistakes of getting in and out and into their investments, which frequently contribute to their NOT being able to benefit as much towards is they were to maintain a longer term investment and to continue to build onto it without getting out and then back in or without being tempted by borrowing against their investment in order to consume.  And, of course, those choices regarding how much to draw into your investment during periods in which is supposed to be growing can make differences towards the growth trajectory of the investment.

Over the years, I have made those kinds of mistakes of drawing into my investment, and frequently it can be difficult to make up for the amount that was drawn out and/or even the growth that the investment would have had while the withdrawn amount was absent from the investment funds.

When you strive for the best in life, you are willing to take the required steps and risks to see your goals realized in the future. Even though our future is still uncertain, we still think that our bitcoin investment has the potential to help things work out well for us.

Some may find your decision to loan money from the bank to purchase one whole bitcoin risky and ill-advised, but I think it was brave on your part because you planned your investments over a two-year period, which is the bull market.

Congratulations on being one of those people who holds 1 bitcoin in a hard wallet. ahead are better days. Keep holding. I will love to hear your story in 2year's time of how bitcoin has given 500% profits as you have expected

You have beautifully drawn a fine line between investment and gambling which is generally difficult to distinguish and people often confuse gambling with investment. The main difference is the risk involved. Investment is done with long term goals like we buy Bitcoin and continue accumulating it during the bear run and this kind of investment is less risky because it is consensus among all analysts, & history has vindicated it again and again, that it always pays off huge rewards to those who believe in its potential to outsmart all other class of assets.

The right decision for you if you really don't have extra income or have heavy bills every month, of course, today will be a long time for bitcoin to peak again, but you can use your extra savings to invest in bitcoin with the DCA strategy is not a thing that makes you trouble or rather a little risk.
But if you have more income and your needs are met so you have some money to manage better, I don't think taking out a loan is not a big deal because basically, you can pay the bill with your income, and you can buy a lot of Bitcoin at the current lowest price.

If it is true as you say, he has an income and can afford to pay interest every month, then I do not object to his action, but if he does not have a stable income, then I do not agree.

We all predict 2024 is the time when bitcoin will go up in price and OP will have enough money to pay those loans, but there is no certainty bitcoin will go up in price by that time. It's all speculation, so OP needs more than 1 plan for 2024. OP's actions are pretty reckless, I don't think I have the courage to do it. Although it takes risks to succeed, with bitcoin not, an asset with a future is still a question mark.

Everyone does not have to understand and agree with some of the assumptions that people want to convey, but the fact is that borrowing money at a bank is an outdated method and there are no greater benefits. If after borrowing you cannot calculate the principal amount of the loan, the monthly fee and the overall impact of the loan.

There is a side of complexity that is understood by many people in the money lending system at the bank, can this case be said to be true?
I mean the bank system applies several principles after providing loans to customers, starting from the sanctions and risks that must be accepted when the agreement has been implemented. This principle includes several risks that will occur, if the customer cannot pay off the monthly fee, the bank will take certain actions.

Three possible journeys of bitcoin, up, down and sideways.

Down: OP invested quite rightly by taking the price method when entering the market, I think this point is quite right.

Up: OP can wait for the bitcoin recovery process going forward, so that the investment made actually reaches the target he expects.

Sideways : I don't really understand the meaning of sideways, but I'm trying to assume that sideways is a condition where bitcoin is in the stage of a severe correction as it is today. This is where the OP went wrong in combining investments with loans in the bank, so the target set for two years is the portion of gambling he's trying to put as an investment, plus no reserve funds to max out for monthly contributions.

And in the end the OP has to be really good at conditioning his time, so that the investment journey that begins with borrowing money from the bank doesn't ruin his investment pattern, because the money he gets is used very properly for investing. If in the current month he has capital reserves to cover the bank's monthly fees, then all problems and worries will be answered by themselves. Because what I know, investing in bitcoin is a step to maintain the value of the currency and is the best asset in the long term.



In the difference in time it may be true that investing is more likely to take a long time, whereas gambling does not take the whole journey. In terms of this definition, there is indeed a difference between gambling and investment methods, but I mean that the closeness of the two is almost the same in the practice of speculation.

I have no skill in math, I mean when people try to narrate investing is very close to gambling only in certain areas. Investment allocates funds to get certain assets that are trying to buy like our discussion concerns bitcoin, while gambling risks assets and depends entirely on uncertain possibilities, in this area it is certain that investment and gambling have different sides.

Within this scope I can understand and definitely agree that gambling is different from investment, and in the end it is we who can clarify the direction of investment or get closer to gambling, in accordance with the understanding and function that we already know.

We are talking about bitcoin here - not "crypto."

Fuck shitcoins, or the various other projects.. whatever it is that you mean by "crypto" that is not bitcoin or bitcoin-related.

I am not sure if everyone. Sometimes, some people are experiencing big problems with loans for investing in Bitcoin or crypto. The risk is much higher because we must pay the debt and maybe along with the interest. Not only that, not everyone is ready for Bitcoin investment. Sometimes, their expectations are very high but they are not ready for the risks, so they are prone to panic attacks, especially in a bearish era like this. And finally they experience losses and difficulties in paying these debts. In this case, it would be better if we use our own money to invest to reduce various risks. But again, this may be a matter of personal preference and ability. But especially for newbies, I really don't recommend going into debt to invest in crypto.

I am not sure if I understand or even agree with what you are proposing in respect to "preventative measures" since it is quite true that at the time that any of us goes into a loan, we should be able to create our plans in accordance with all of the information that we know at the time of entering into the loan. 

There are quite a few things that are in our control, including what kinds of assets and cashflow that we already have and our abilities to consider the possible ups and downs of our own other assets and cashflow.

We also know the exact terms of the loan what is the percentage that is paid in interest/fees, what is the period of payment and the payment amounts. 

As far as the BTC price, there seem to be ONLY three possibilities, which is that the BTC price goes UP, DOWN or sideways.  We should be able to plan for those three possibilities, and sure we might have some changes in the other factors that we had considered to have had been fixed, but our plan for the period of the loan should not really be changing very much, so in that sense, there should not be any "preventative measures" that need to be taken, unless there was already a plan to employ such "preventative measures" if certain circumstances pass.


I would frame the differences between gambling and investment differently than you. 

From my point of view, some folks seem to convolute their definitions of gambling and/or investing in such a way that it becomes difficult to understand how they are differentiating the concepts, so in that sense sometimes it can be difficult to figure out what they mean when the are describing how gambling and investing differ from one another.

So in some sense it could reasonably be argued that gambling and investing are on a kind of spectrum in which if we go far on one end of the spectrum we are in the territory of gambling and if we go in the other direction then we are in the territory of investing, but there are some shared traits in the middle in which the definition could go either way.

So, for me, investing tends to involve having a longer timeline and also tends to involve the engaging in behaviors in which the amount of guessing is reduced.  So for example, if I say that I am going to invest $10 per week in bitcoin no matter what for the next 5 years - which is $2,600 ($10 * 52 weeks * 5 years), then I would call that investing rather than gambling, even though at this time, I do not know how much the price of bitcoin is going to be in 5 years (and/or what other places I might have held/invested that value and whether I might have received a better return by investing that value somewhere else), but I am trying to lessen the number of guesses that I am making.  That would be following a kind of dollar cost averaging approach. DCA.

Now, if I take some variation of the same facts, and I tell myself that I have a $2,600 budget, and for the next 5 years I am going to buy bitcoin when it is low (or any other asset that is trade-able with relatively low fees) and to sell bitcoin when it is high in order to attempt to increase my $2,600 in a way that is better than the DCA approach over that same period of time, I might consider those practices to lean more towards a kind of gambling.  It is not a very good example, but my point is the more variables that are left to chance including trying to predict the ups and downs of price, then the more I would consider the practices to fall into a gambling camp rather than into an investing camp.

Another possibility would be that if I were not to have an ability to provide myself with a front-loaded $2,600 budget, so in this scenario, I can only add $10 per week to my "investing budget" over the next 5 years, so each week I add an additional $10 to my "investing budget," and I try to identify assets that are low in price and to sell them when they are higher in price within a reasonable period of time, and I would like to both have more than $2,600 at the end of 5 years of "investing" in this kind of a way (whether held in BTC or in other assets but I am frequently trying to time the market in order to increase the amount of money in my investment portfolio, but I would also like to beat the $10 per week DCA approach and to have had accumulated more BTC at the end of the 5 year period than I would have accumulated if I had merely engaged into a DCA practice. 

My point is that the more variables that I do not know and the more times that I am taking chances on unknown variables, then the more that the practice is likely to be classified by me as gambling rather than investing.

The problem is when someone does not have a spare cost in the process of financing trips every month for the bank, and for me to avoid problems it is better not to lend money at the bank to make investments. There are many simple ways to participate in investing in bitcoin, one of which is to make purchases in stages according to your needs and not burden the capital we have.

If the investment he made goes according to the target set, it will look good and will provide a solution to the loan he is doing, then what if bitcoin in the next two years is still in its current state. Let's say this is the worst assumption that we are trying to predict, even though the next two years may not be the case. I mean there are preventive actions that can be taken, if at any time the target set does not go according to the expected scenario.

This relates to bitcoin being considered a speculative asset by most people, whatever the notion of linking the four year cycle with the many theories that try to be narrated, there can never be an accurate prediction of bitcoin's journey in the market. There are several patterns that cannot be separated from the journey of bitcoin, for example in the value of supply and demand, although other influences cannot be ignored either.

The most appropriate idea why bitcoin will rise again at a high price, because the price is speculative and the long journey that has been passed has given confidence to many people as the best investment and is an asset capable of maintaining value in the future.

I didn't get any clarification from the OP regarding this question, but with you I was involved in several discussions and subconsciously I also started to study some of the posts you made, thus clarifying some meanings that I still don't understand, and that's why I'm happy discuss with you freely, without worrying if my understanding is wrong in assuming.

This is an important point from the discussion that has been going on, gambling is the same as investment even though the pattern of work is different, because gambling is also part of prediction and investment is not much different from that pattern. If gambling expects a win, then investment expects a profit.

I agree that bitcoin will again show resistance to recovery and bitcoin will slowly recover in the future, and the OP will most likely benefit from the investment he is running, as long as he can stay calm and not panic while waiting for a sustained recovery in the market.

I think I should and would not borrow money to invest in a product that takes a long time to make a profit. I will use my extra money to invest in a planned way. Investing itself is risky. If you also borrow money to invest, your risk multiple will increase.

But if you can stick to your plan, I think I admire you and your courage.

Of course, in any case, risks cannot be avoided, and of course, don't stop investing in bitcoin halfway, we all know the cycle in general, when the Bitcoin price is bearish, winter, and bullish, this cycle is common, and we can see it.

But Borrowing money in the bank at this time and investing in bitcoins is not in a hurry? considering the halving schedule will occur in 2024, OP will have to wait a year if he really wants the benefits that are worth the wait.
I think it's terrible if not to have any income from our job to pay the bank bills each month, but it looks like OP has enough income to cover his bills.

I give a thumbs up for his bravery, as a Bitcoiner and of course, I also support his actions.

We must have the courage to do that and by taking risks we are ready to succeed with the actions taken along with the responsibilities, we must not be afraid of investment because from the worst there must be a process of recovery and also success so don't hesitate if you invest by choosing bitcoin basically we will see better profit over the next few years.

Well, we all as bitcoin investors want to make a profit, but we have to be able to go through a process of obstacles, don't stop in the middle of the road, we have to be prepared for any circumstances until bitcoin recovers again.

It's with that calculation that needs to be looked at, but when counting on a shitcoin, it's a mistake they made.

What you said is probably the OP's thinking, we need to take risks, and step out of our comfort zone to take on bigger challenges to achieve success. If we are always afraid and dare not try anything, we will never succeed. OP's method is quite risky for many people, but I believe that when he decided to do it, he was fully calculated and prepared for himself. I have no objection to what he does, and I hope he succeeds with his plan.

Taking risks is sometimes necessary in investing, because great people are also mostly always willing to take risks.
because in high risk there is also high success.
but! must be truly mature and dare to bear all the worst possibilities.
and hopefully bitcoin in 2024 halving will exceed last year's halving.
all bitcoiners definitely want to profit, no one wants to lose.

careful calculation will always bring profit.

Maybe he has already thought of the way you hope for it, so that you yourself don't have to worry about other people's plans and the risks that other people will bear in terms of investment. Because every investment does have its own level of risk, and I think that is the same as the work we do every day where the risk is always there and needs to be understood.

There is no need to worry about other people's assets because everyone has a plan that suits their own way of thinking and has considered it very carefully before making it. So your additional suggestions might be another consideration for the people you address, but basically everyone will still do something based on their own way of thinking.

OP,are you sure this move of yours will work as you have predicted, I guess you should come up with a plan B so that if in the next two years,bitcoin price didn't get to your assumption price,you can pay up your debts to avoid depression and frustration. You are lucky that you have where to borrow from,unlike down here in my country,borrowing is like putting a big burden on your head due to high interest rate.

You have the mind in taking risk with this bold step of yours to own 1BTC,this is what some people don't know that investing into a business is taking a risk because for you to be successful in life,you much take a risk in whatever you are doing. OP I wish you good luck and hope bitcoin price goes up so that you can pay back the loans.

Sorry but I don't get it. 8% interest borrowed from OP's uncle is higher than that of the bank with a 10% interest? Anyways, it's a very risky move OP. Something I will never do is borrow money for risky investment purposes. Although I am really confident that bitcoin will reach at least $100k in 2025 which is 500% of your capital. There are still no guarantees though. I hope you are not affected by the current drop. And since you already crossed the Rubicon, good luck mate, and hopefully, you will earn big with your very risky gamble.

Another thing, I am amazed at how high deposit interests and the low borrowing interest rates are in your place. 10% is very low and you can start a good business that can easily cover that kind of interest. Here in my country interest rates are usually at 24% per annum. Our time deposits here are only around 3% per annum.