how do you know 75% "will stick?" cuz gavin said so?
well hmm ya, he said a few words about 75% or 80% or 95% and i believe his reasoning is sound, and 75% is safe.
in other words, you have no reasoning or logic to offer?
i do.
hashpower is totally irrelevant to user interests
nonsense
how so? miners don't have the same interests as me. miners are interested in profit. that means a rational miner will double spend if it is profitable. you think that matches my interests as a user?
users give value to the coins, if miners start double spending users wont value the coins, they will double spend worthless coins....
the miners main concern is how to best service the user base, the happier there users are the more valuable the coins they mine become.
how do you know that at 60% hashpower, >75% of users will ignore the invalid chain, rather than updating to new rules? how do you know that 75% hashpower, >75% of users will change their consensus rules?
i dont think you're understanding me.
if you have 60% of hashing power going
against >75% of
everyone else , everyone else will ignore the
altcoin 60% hashing power created.
imagine 60%
rented hashing power forks 21million coin limit to 42milion coin limit...
as a user you can chose 41million coin bitcoin running at 60% hashing power(which has been rented for limited time) or 21million coin bitcoin running at 40%
which one would you pick O_o?
yeah "against >75% of everyone else" is the problem. how would you even begin to determine who >75% of everyone else is, and what they want?
based on your example, i think we can agree that
no amount of hashpower can guarantee a successful fork. My example was with hash power known to be rented, renting 60% of bitcoin hashing power is impossible. I think generally hashing power represents the will of the community at large fairly well. miners want to service users as best they can, and so they act and vote accordingly. but in a case where hashing power is no reflective of user interest it will be known fast, and that change miners are pushing for will not stick.
its easy to measure, survey 1000 random bitcoiners, and with that sample data you can get an approximate measurement of "everyone else"
yes, create a new coin plox. that's a more honest route than trying to split the network with a controversial hard fork.
trying to fork bitcoin with anything less than 51% hashing power is just silly silly...
75% is minimal, 75% = safe
bet everyone will follow suit
but ya anything much less then that is kinda silly to even try.
if you feel strongly about a change and you have less than 75% hashing power agreeing with you, the best thing to do is start an altcoin.
again, how do you know that 75% is safe and that everyone will follow suit? i agree, start an altcoin if you cant achieve consensus. if you really are capable of achieving consensus, why set the bar at 75%?
because at 95% 5% hashing power can veto changes and the dev process stalls.
you have to look at the hashing power voting as an educated guess / personal preference.
if you have 3 BIP's all trying to solve the same problem, all of which are valid and have their own pros and cons / trade offs, the fact that one of them gains 75% of the votes means that it is somehow superior in some way. if it gain >95% it would tend to indicate that there was somthing seriously wrong with the other BIPs. point is if all 3 BIP have roughly equal merit its impossible that consensus will ever be reached, and in truth miners are most likely expressing a preference by voting not necessarily meaning the are strongly opposed to the other BIPs. so wtf.
let put this in context
say segwit is released and it gains 60% hashing power does this mean the other 40% are strongly opposed to segwit? probably not... wait another few weeks and more discussions and understanding take place, and boom we have 76% hashing power, do we really need to wait for the other 24% hashing power? even if the remaining 24% were all strongly opposed to segwit, they pose no threat to us.
