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Topic: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT - page 42. (Read 157137 times)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/supporters-of-mb-bitcoin-blocks-unable-to-convince-miners-to-hard-fork-in-beijing-meeting-1461004264


Quote
‘Train wreck’ would be a suitable term to describe their efforts in Beijing.”

Defcon: Train #REKT

Quote
There are also rumors that miners may have been offered extra money to abandon Bitcoin Core for Bitcoin Classic.

bitcoin talks, bullshit (fiat) walks ... should have offered miners bitcoins  Grin
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
lol right there with you buddy.

Worldwide political instability? Reserve currency close to all-out fight against it's nearest (value pegged) rival? Intangible, cryptographically scarce assets that cannot be confiscated? Hello? Cheesy

hehe, just one more step before tho:




the sooner the govs ban bitcoin, the sooner it wins.

Yep, because Bitcoin winning implies the end of enforceable taxation law, any government that actually permits widespread Bitcoin use within the economy will inevitably collapse.

Government begone.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
lol right there with you buddy.

Worldwide political instability? Reserve currency close to all-out fight against it's nearest (value pegged) rival? Intangible, cryptographically scarce assets that cannot be confiscated? Hello? Cheesy

hehe, just one more step before tho:




the sooner the govs ban bitcoin, the sooner it wins.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
lol right there with you buddy.

Worldwide political instability? Reserve currency close to all-out fight against it's nearest (value pegged) rival? Intangible, cryptographically scarce assets that cannot be confiscated? Hello? Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Oh bad luck, gentlemen.

I'm now entering a new phase: concern about what the dying bankster behemoth will come up with next to bring Bitcoin down. It's possible that brute force is all they've got left, which is possibly bad news in the short term, despite the potential for plenty of corresponding publicity. And the timing seems a little extraordinary, events around the world impacting the legacy financial system are beginning to look like they are coming to the boil.


im all in for that last, desperate, move:

legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
Oh bad luck, gentlemen.

I'm now entering a new phase: concern about what the dying bankster behemoth will come up with next to bring Bitcoin down. It's possible that brute force is all they've got left, which is possibly bad news in the short term, despite the potential for plenty of corresponding publicity. And the timing seems a little extraordinary, events around the world impacting the legacy financial system are beginning to look like they are coming to the boil.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
This proves that they will upgrade in a timely manner. the fork you're pointing to had no grace period, it was an unexpected fork, and when it came time to upgrade they did so in a matter of hours.
They could have prevented that from happening had they upgraded to a newer version in time, but they didn't. Regardless, you are just speculating and hoping the everyone will rush into upgrading within 28 days. Again, pretty much everyone who has a somewhat better understanding disagrees with the grace period (including Garzik, who is a Classic supporter).

Coming to a Bitcoin Core Node near you! This is the real tech and real scaling that the core team is capable of.
This is what a real team of developers is capable of and should focus on.


Humor time: Pieter Wuille facts.
full member
Activity: 187
Merit: 100
Brilliant article explaining the benefits of Schnorr Signatures https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/the-power-of-schnorr-the-signature-algorithm-to-increase-bitcoin-s-scale-and-privacy-1460642496.  

Coming to a Bitcoin Core Node near you!

This is the real tech and real scaling that the core team is capable of.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner

ever heard of IPv4 and IPv6?

thats a more suitable analogy to the blocksize problem...

segwit is NAT
2MB is IPv6
Lighting network is UDP holepunching

lmao

Yeah don't you find it ironic that experts had started screaming 'we will run out of IP address space soon, increase it NAOO" since 20 years ago, and today internet is still chugging along on IPV4 just fine?

the analogy fits quite well...

I think IPv6 will eventually be widely used and at one point IPv4 will be dropped entirely. its only a matter of time IMO.
sure we have mitigated the problem with NAT, but its has only delayed the problem ( and created a bit of a headache for network apps. )
just like 1MB blocks we can mitigate the issue by using LN, but in the end eventually 1MB is simply not be enough space.

i think the moral of the story is to design things in such a way that they dont have limits, or put in place retardedly high limits.

you think 4billion IP address is enough? think again

you think a 3 lane highway is enough? think again!
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Could you point me to the global consensus ledger that Safari, Mozilla and Chrome maintain together? No? Then you're making a terribly foolish analogy.

you mean this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext_Transfer_Protocol

[facepalm]
well its a protocol they all adhere to which is very hard to HF...
for the purposes of the analogy it fits.

Wonder if you can recall anything before there was Safari, Mozilla and Chrome.

That one player M$ did try very hard to screw up all sorts of standards by being "innovative" and more "user friendly" aka breaking compatibility.

Document.all, marquee, ActiveX, VBScript... say these words to a senior web developer once and he will want to punch you in the face.

Perhaps the most important reason that Mozilla won web developers to Firefox was to stick to the web standards(which they did not create), rather than creating their own. It's exactly because browser developers learnt a lesson from IE6 and thus make sticking to web standards a super political correctness, that we could have a uniform browsing experience regardless which browser we are using today.

Needless to say, there are countless network protocols which leaves no room for maneuvering when it comes to implementation, you ever heard of anyone coming up with their own version of SSL/TLS protocol?

ever heard of IPv4 and IPv6?

thats a more suitable analogy to the blocksize problem...

segwit is NAT
2MB is IPv6
Lighting network is UDP holepunching

lmao

Yeah don't you find it ironic that experts had started screaming 'we will run out of IP address space soon, increase it NAOO" since 20 years ago, and today internet is still chugging along on IPV4 just fine?
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
you're being paranoid, did you lock yourself in your basement for the Y2K bug ?
yes its safe to assume that ( coinbase, bitpay, bitfinex, Purse.io  etc etc) will all upgraded in time.
Like it was safe to assume that OKPay would be prepared, back in 2013, yet it didn't (at least 1 known double spend occurred)? Roll Eyes

This proves that they will upgrade in a timely manner. the fork you're pointing to had no grace period, it was an unexpected fork, and when it came time to upgrade they did so in a matter of hours.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
if your node is not servicing other poeple ( ex. coinbase's node ) then you fall in the home user side and i dont care if you upgare or not, if you dont upgrade you'll be bumped of the network and that only affects you really...
I never said that my node didn't process other peoples transactions. I said that my node is not responsible for other people's "stuff". I run it for personal reasons and in order to help with the decentralization (unlike those datacenter-concentrated nodes).

you're being paranoid, did you lock yourself in your basement for the Y2K bug ?
yes its safe to assume that ( coinbase, bitpay, bitfinex, Purse.io  etc etc) will all upgraded in time.
Like it was safe to assume that OKPay would be prepared, back in 2013, yet it didn't (at least 1 known double spend occurred)? Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
if your node is responsible for handling other people's monies you have a responsibility to run a well oiled machine.
No, I do not have such a responsibility. You're saying it like my node is supposed to 'serve' other people.
if your node is not servicing other poeple ( ex. coinbase's node ) then you fall in the home user side and i dont care if you upgare or not, if you dont upgrade you'll be bumped of the network and that only affects you really...


node operators have not be faced with a HF before, of course i would expect them to not upgrade on every minor release, if it doesn't affect their ability to service their clients they probably hold off upgrading to allow that new build to be tested by everyone else and or plan to upgrade after a few minor releases have been piling up.
Speculation as always. You don't have the data, nor does the network have experience. It could end up being a disaster, you never know.
[/quote]
you're being paranoid, did you lock yourself in your basement for the Y2K bug ?
yes its safe to assume that ( coinbase, bitpay, bitfinex, Purse.io  etc etc) will all upgraded in time.
they will likely receive 100's of emails from concerned users asking them if they will be ready for the coming HF.
along with several general announcements from the dev community warning them of the coming HF.

maybe pizza4coins.com will not upagred ( and lets assume he dosnt use bitpay ) but whats that going to do? users will send him funds and his wallet wont see them confrim until he upgrades, not the end of the world...

yes this is all Speculation, best guess, assumption and estimates. but have no fear, Gavin said its would all be just fine  Grin Grin
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
if your node is responsible for handling other people's monies you have a responsibility to run a well oiled machine.
No, I do not have such a responsibility. You're saying it like my node is supposed to 'serve' other people.

node operators have not be faced with a HF before, of course i would expect them to not upgrade on every minor release, if it doesn't affect their ability to service their clients they probably hold off upgrading to allow that new build to be tested by everyone else and or plan to upgrade after a few minor releases have been piling up.
Speculation as always. You don't have the data, nor does the network have experience. It could end up being a disaster, you never know.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
the only poeple slow to upgrade will be home users that dont really need to have their wallet running all the time.
False assumption. Nodes operators do not update as frequently and as fast as you think; you can verify this yourself. If you don't think that these nodes are not important ('non-mining nodes') then you have come to the wrong 'neighborhood'.
if your node is responsible for handling other people's monies you have a responsibility to run a well oiled machine.

node operators have not be faced with a HF before, of course i would expect them to not upgrade on every minor release, if it doesn't affect their ability to service their clients they probably hold off upgrading to allow that new build to be tested by everyone else and or plan to upgrade after a few minor releases have been piling up.

 
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
but you refuse to offer it.
lol.


that may be the miners' main concern. they are also working off mere perception. they can be wrong -- very wrong -- about what users want. they are also motivated by short term profit, and game theory says they may be willing to sacrifice long term interest (happy users) if short term gains (i.e. from double spending) are large enough. the relative anonymity of miners and the potentially fly-by-night nature of pools adds to this.

again, miners interests =/= user interests. miners have a distinct incentive -- particularly if fees are too low -- to double spend. users have no interest in this whatsoever.
IMO you're totally over exaggerating the disconnect between user interests and miner interests.
Miners have a long term stake in the game, they have an investment in hardware that takes them about a year to to start getting a ROI
most of them are constantly reinvesting in new hardware which solidifies their long term stake.

if anything users might be the ones that are short sighted, they can buy-in and sell-out at a moment's notice.

users could buy now, push of segwit + LN and then sell the moment its released, they might not care how segwit +LN changes the game, they only care about the short term profit a smooth deployment of a scaling solution might potentially have.


you simply keep ignoring contexts in which clearly miners interests diverge from users.
here, a RL example:
there was a time when a mining pool got ~50% hashing power, they IMMEDIATELY took steps to separate the hashing power, because they knew it made users concerned.
they could have gotten >51% hashing power and started to double spend like mad fools for short term profit, they didnt!

how can we ensure this survey is honest and representative? i can produce such a survey and i assure you, it won't be.
you try your best to make sure your sample is representative of the community at large
example for ever female bitcoiner you survey, you survey 100 males.  Cheesy
its imperfect but... meh.



you have to look at the hashing power voting as an educated guess / personal preference.
yeah, that's all it is. a guess. sorry but not interested in allowing consensus changes based on today's "guess" by miners.

the idea is that if we put all the best guess / preferences together we get a very good guess.

the wisdom of the crowd type thing
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
no?
75% are ready and willing, and then 28 days is plenty of time for the other miners that voted against it to get ready.
worst case sanoir only 25% "get left behind". but its not as tho that 25% can't simply say " OH Shit i should have upgraded in time! better late than never..."
The 75% consensus threshold representsonly hashrate, i.e. the miners. Miners are only a part of the ecosystem. With a grace period of 28 days, the majority would most likely be left behind (e.g. users, merchants).

the only poeple slow to upgrade will be home users that dont really need to have their wallet running all the time.
False assumption. Nodes operators do not update as frequently and as fast as you think; you can verify this yourself. If you don't think that these nodes are not important ('non-mining nodes') then you have come to the wrong 'neighborhood'.
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