Trading Manipulations - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

el kaka22

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Quote from: cakravothy on April 05, 2017, 01:56:35 AM

trading is not manipulation, trading only suply and demand
but you can manipulation demand and can incraese price if you have much money, you can pump everything coin you want if you have much money

Yes, tricky manipulations are not possible with high volume trading instruments or needed billion dollars to move the prices.

In cryptocurrencies, manipulations are becoming so common as people are just ready to invest somewhere. If you are capable of green change of an altcoins, you may make some good amounts of bitcoins at the end of the day through intensively manipulating prices. Innocent traders who are thinking for big profits are got trapped most of the times.

Choosing well established coins for trading/investing could be a one practice to avoid manipulation surprises. But in recent times XRP and LTC also showed big sudden fluctuations to make us think about how to choose altcoins. Probably staying away from altcoins could be a solution as of now.

deisik

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Quote from: ImHash on April 06, 2017, 01:51:59 PM

Welcome to crypto land Cheesy

there is no rule stopping someone from being stupid, though I don't know how can you call that manipulation? that is only manipulation when someone has the control over most of the supply so they do that to keep the price down and make the order books to seem more legit like a natural economy, or someone saw other idiots willing to buy all his coins at that price so he dumped them all.

Right about now if you inject $100M into LTC market you could potentially pump the price up to $35+ and while pumping then others will join in hopes of earning profit so they will actually buy from you $35 per coin and you could even demand much higher prices and they'll still buy from you, now that's what I call true manipulation.

While when you buy bitcoin at any given price there are real people using bitcoin for real and legitimate businesses and still not a mainstream currency I don't know why people bother to even go near altcoins?

It is not only profits that are driving people into trading altcoins

Many people visit casinos though they know beforehand that casinos have a competitive advantage before them (so-called house edge) but they still hope to win. In trading, people think that there is no house edge (they just don't know how severely mistaken they are in this regard), therefore they consider trading (and especially altcoin trading because Bitcoin has become dull and boring to them) as a variety of gambling, and since they think that everyone is in the same boat as themselves (i.e. there is no house edge), they prefer trading to gambling. While in reality their real chances to win may in fact be lower than in an honest casino and I'm not kidding

ImHash

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Welcome to crypto land Cheesy

there is no rule stopping someone from being stupid, though I don't know how can you call that manipulation? that is only manipulation when someone has the control over most of the supply so they do that to keep the price down and make the order books to seem more legit like a natural economy, or someone saw other idiots willing to buy all his coins at that price so he dumped them all.

Right about now if you inject $100M into LTC market you could potentially pump the price up to $35+ and while pumping then others will join in hopes of earning profit so they will actually buy from you $35 per coin and you could even demand much higher prices and they'll still buy from you, now that's what I call true manipulation.

While when you buy bitcoin at any given price there are real people using bitcoin for real and legitimate businesses and still not a mainstream currency I don't know why people bother to even go near altcoins?

deisik

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Sometimes people get lazy. The seller could have sold at the higher price and if there weren't enough buy orders to cover the sell at that price enter a new one at a lower price. I don't know what the trading rules are on Poloniex but I once traded stocks with Havelock Investments where the price at which you entered the order was the price you got as soon as someone entered a matching order. If this sounded stupid I apologize. This is only my second post on this forum

I've seen something like that on some amateur exchanges (let's call them wannabe exchanges)

Obviously the order should be filled at the best price all down the orderbook. So if you put a Sell order at a price below the price of some Buy orders, your order should get first filled at the highest prices available, and if there is a remaining amount it will be placed at the price that you set. I traded at Poloniex and orders are filled there as they should be, so if someone placed a Sell order at a price below the highest bids, he might just have calculated the price at which his order will be filled completely. In fact, that's totally rational since otherwise the trader in question might not get his order filled completely because buyers would most certainly remove their Buy orders when they saw a huge Sell order hovering just above their bids

BlackPanda

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Quote from: marketone on April 06, 2017, 09:27:03 AM

Not only him the one who sells at 0.00007150 BTC, there are many greedy people in trading history. The don't want to increase the price of the coin, this thing I have faced many times when the price of the coin is raising many people to start to keep at the low price. We don't have any right to ask because those coins belong to themselves only.

I agree with you . can all run very quickly and so many transactions.
we can never pay attention to the movement of the digits in the world of trading.

marketone

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Not only him the one who sells at 0.00007150 BTC, there are many greedy people in trading history. The don't want to increase the price of the coin, this thing I have faced many times when the price of the coin is raising many people to start to keep at the low price. We don't have any right to ask because those coins belong to themselves only.

Humanxlemming

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Quote from: shamzblueworld on April 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM

So I was just watching the exchange section at polo and I was happened to be on the AMP exchange page, I noticed something quite incredible and would be interested in what you guys think about it.
So amp was being sold at about 0.00007756 and was at like 10%+(green) and then suddenly there came a sell order of about 60k+ amps with price only 0.00007150
Now why would someone actually sell at such a low price when the price for the moment is quite high?
It looked quite strange to me, what do you guys think?

i think, the investor just want to buy again in the lower prices, that's why they dump the coin. Firts they buy @low price then sell all her coins @high price... To dump the coin and also to buy @low price.... Don't worry OP this is always happening "Dump and Pump"

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Quote from: shamzblueworld on April 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM

So I was just watching the exchange section at polo and I was happened to be on the AMP exchange page, I noticed something quite incredible and would be interested in what you guys think about it.
So amp was being sold at about 0.00007756 and was at like 10%+(green) and then suddenly there came a sell order of about 60k+ amps with price only 0.00007150
Now why would someone actually sell at such a low price when the price for the moment is quite high?
It looked quite strange to me, what do you guys think?

In my opinion that the signal that coin will dump because whales set a wall on it to get more amp.
That's the strategy of some traders to gain more profit.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 06, 2017, 12:33:10 AM

Quote from: cakravothy on April 05, 2017, 01:56:35 AM

trading is not manipulation, trading only suply and demand
but you can manipulation demand and can incraese price if you have much money, you can pump everything coin you want if you have much money

Of course it is. Manipulation and pumping and dumping have been happening since the creation of the idea of trading markets. Do you really believe that something like the Tulip Mania was all owed to the law of supply and demand? Of course not, there were a lot of misinformation, hype and of course the pump of the price that manipulated the people to join in and buy it up.

technically manipulation is also changing the supply and demand.
for example it can be by cutting the supply and the sell pressure (specially in altcoin market where the coins/supply is in the hands of a few) and place some buy walls in small markets and push the buy orders higher and higher.
or it can be by "spreading some fake news" so that the demand increases when people rush to buy that thing in order not to miss out. like what ethereum and dash did with their claims to replace bitcoin.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: cakravothy on April 05, 2017, 01:56:35 AM

trading is not manipulation, trading only suply and demand
but you can manipulation demand and can incraese price if you have much money, you can pump everything coin you want if you have much money

Of course it is. Manipulation and pumping and dumping have been happening since the creation of the idea of trading markets. Do you really believe that something like the Tulip Mania was all owed to the law of supply and demand? Of course not, there were a lot of misinformation, hype and of course the pump of the price that manipulated the people to join in and buy it up.

cakravothy

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trading is not manipulation, trading only suply and demand
but you can manipulation demand and can incraese price if you have much money, you can pump everything coin you want if you have much money

pooya87

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it is mostly someone day-trading. which means they buy in the dips and sell after a rise. in that case you see dumps like that happen. and when the market is small with small orders selling one batch will fill multiple orders and price goes down 2-3 steps.

seeing the past 7 days of AMP charts the trades go like this:
you buy at 6800-6900 sat and sell on 7500-7800 (13-14% profit)
then buy back at 7100 sat and sell again at 7800-8100 (13-14% profit again)
...
and so on.

shamzblueworld

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Quote from: amacar2 on April 04, 2017, 01:03:20 PM

Quote from: shamzblueworld on April 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM

Now why would someone actually sell at such a low price when the price for the moment is quite high?
It looked quite strange to me, what do you guys think?

Simple answer is to create sell wall and create panic on the market. So that these whales can buy back cheap coins. When they will get few cheap coins below their sell orders, they will remove those walls so that price can naturally get pumped over their sell price so they can sell again to make good profit. Wink

That make sense, so it is a manipulation by the "whales" as people are calling them.
I think the appropriate option would be just to keep watching and do nothing about it? Because that they would not want, right?

Quote from: BrewMaster on April 04, 2017, 11:36:56 AM

there is also the possibility of a bot going crazy on its owner

That must be one angry owner right now if he sees, but bot most probably earned him profit in any case.

Wind_FURY

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OP, you should always keep in mind that most of the altcoin traders are amateurs and self thought traders. They make the mistakes of amateurs always make like the one you witnessed. He made a market order without any regard on the liquidity of the market.

Qartada

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Well for one thing if the price was going significantly down then they might want to sell to several different buyers all the way down to that price. They could also be starting a downtrend to push the price down so that they can buy later.

JeffBrad12

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Quote from: shamzblueworld on April 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM

Now why would someone actually sell at such a low price when the price for the moment is quite high?

To press the market and with an assumption if that makes a short candle. Actually, most of the whales are doing it.

Quote from: shamzblueworld on April 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM

It looked quite strange to me, what do you guys think?

It' just a usual thing in trading, You'll see more whales try to make panic to the market. I mean the short dip is his chance to gain more profit.

Or that person is trying to sell all of his coins.

harizen

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Quote from: shamzblueworld on April 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM

So I was just watching the exchange section at polo and I was happened to be on the AMP exchange page, I noticed something quite incredible and would be interested in what you guys think about it.
So amp was being sold at about 0.00007756 and was at like 10%+(green) and then suddenly there came a sell order of about 60k+ amps with price only 0.00007150
Now why would someone actually sell at such a low price when the price for the moment is quite high?
It looked quite strange to me, what do you guys think?

That is the start of the called triggering a trend so that the price movement will not always goes into same direction. Building a price wall.

That is always present to an alt especially if it's offered on an ICO. Early investors will get profit out of it while at the same time will trigger a panic selling since the quantity stated is enough to shake the volumes much. What to do? Ride the wave and try not to get lost.

amacar2

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Quote from: shamzblueworld on April 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM

Now why would someone actually sell at such a low price when the price for the moment is quite high?
It looked quite strange to me, what do you guys think?

Simple answer is to create sell wall and create panic on the market. So that these whales can buy back cheap coins. When they will get few cheap coins below their sell orders, they will remove those walls so that price can naturally get pumped over their sell price so they can sell again to make good profit. Wink

BrewMaster

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not everyone is a trader and having a large amount of money (~4.65BTC) doesn't make them good at it.
it may have been someone who have mined that much, a developer, a bagholder, or someone who bought low and was scared so got out.
there is also the possibility of a bot going crazy on its owner

also remember that always taking 10% profit is better than watching the coin stay there and suddenly go down to -30% and you miss your opportunity. and a 10% profit on 4.65BTC means 0.46BTC nearly 500 dollar in half a day.

pedrog

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Quote from: shamzblueworld on April 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM

So I was just watching the exchange section at polo and I was happened to be on the AMP exchange page, I noticed something quite incredible and would be interested in what you guys think about it.
So amp was being sold at about 0.00007756 and was at like 10%+(green) and then suddenly there came a sell order of about 60k+ amps with price only 0.00007150
Now why would someone actually sell at such a low price when the price for the moment is quite high?
It looked quite strange to me, what do you guys think?

Because he wanted to fill orders down to 0.00007150, this happens when there's not enough liquidity if you have a big sell to make.

Topic: Trading Manipulations - page 2. (Read 2141 times)