Transparent mining, or What makes Nxt a 2nd generation currency - page 9.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Vega on January 01, 2014, 08:21:12 PM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on January 01, 2014, 07:48:06 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 01, 2014, 07:12:02 PM

1 min between blocks.

what mechanism is it that causes the timing to drift? sometimes there are blocks every few seconds, sometimes every 15 mins, etc.

Yeah, I wanted to ask this for a while. The avarage blocks per day are somewhere below 800. Why is that?

Timing drifts due to stochastic nature of forging. Average blocks per day is below 800 coz of high rate of orphaned blocks.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: mczarnek on January 01, 2014, 07:43:00 PM

What makes it impossible? I guess we simply won't know until the source code is released, at which point I could see someone hacking it, but sounded to me like for each transaction, potentially only one person could be confirming the transaction at a time. If you are the only one confirming and have shady motives what prevents you from inserting fake transactions?

Still wish it was faster.. I liked a 5 second block because I want a coin that can be used for grocery store transactions with confirmation which doesn't require waiting for a minute for checkout but still very nice regarding 1 min block! At least it's more than double litecoin's speed.

Sorry, I don't have time to tell u basic things. U should read more about Cryptography and Bitcoin, and then we'll continue the discussion. Ok?

mczarnek

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Also this post is talking about instant transaction mode: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nxt-big-giveaway-347927

Could you tell me how that works? Thanks!

Vega

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Quote from: opticalcarrier on January 01, 2014, 07:48:06 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 01, 2014, 07:12:02 PM

1 min between blocks.

what mechanism is it that causes the timing to drift? sometimes there are blocks every few seconds, sometimes every 15 mins, etc.

Yeah, I wanted to ask this for a while. The avarage blocks per day are somewhere below 800. Why is that?

opticalcarrier

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 01, 2014, 07:12:02 PM

1 min between blocks.

what mechanism is it that causes the timing to drift? sometimes there are blocks every few seconds, sometimes every 15 mins, etc.

mczarnek

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 01, 2014, 07:12:02 PM

It's impossible to take coins from someone else wallet.

What makes it impossible? I guess we simply won't know until the source code is released, at which point I could see someone hacking it, but sounded to me like for each transaction, potentially only one person could be confirming the transaction at a time. If you are the only one confirming and have shady motives what prevents you from inserting fake transactions?

Still wish it was faster.. I liked a 5 second block because I want a coin that can be used for grocery store transactions with confirmation which doesn't require waiting for a minute for checkout but still very nice regarding 1 min block! At least it's more than double litecoin's speed.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: mczarnek on January 01, 2014, 06:50:20 PM

So it's closed source but as someone pointed out, it is possible to decompile that.

Aye.

Quote from: mczarnek on January 01, 2014, 06:50:20 PM

But as I understand it, individual 'miners' take turns approving transactions, so what prevents people from making it so that every time it is their turn to mine, they transfer coins from a wallet that doesn't belong to them to their own wallet and then approve the transaction?

It's impossible to take coins from someone else wallet.

Quote from: mczarnek on January 01, 2014, 06:50:20 PM

Also, what kind of speed is there for confirmation time? If you could beat litecoin's transaction time.. I think that alone would be a reason everyone would turn to Nextcoin and seems possibly doable given the unique mining system.

1 min between blocks.

mczarnek

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So it's closed source but as someone pointed out, it is possible to decompile that.

But as I understand it, individual 'miners' take turns approving transactions, so what prevents people from making it so that every time it is their turn to mine, they transfer coins from a wallet that doesn't belong to them to their own wallet and then approve the transaction?

Also, what kind of speed is there for confirmation time? If you could beat litecoin's transaction time.. I think that alone would be a reason everyone would turn to Nextcoin and seems possibly doable given the unique mining system.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: xibeijan on January 01, 2014, 06:01:17 PM

What happens if someone has the NXT source code, creates a new genesis block and creates and entirely new NXT network, with an entirely new supply of NXT (on this second network), with a completely new block chain that is longer than the NXT one, then joins the NXT network?

Nothing. He won't be able to catch the blocks nor able to push his own blocks/transactions.

xibeijan

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 23, 2013, 01:43:54 PM

Quote from: dE_logics on December 23, 2013, 01:41:23 PM

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.

I think the question is:

What happens if someone has the NXT source code, creates a new genesis block and creates and entirely new NXT network, with an entirely new supply of NXT (on this second network), with a completely new block chain that is longer than the NXT one, then joins the NXT network?

virtualaddict

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Nxt just flew passed Mastercoin's marketcap Grin

As I understand it, the difference in function between Mastercoin and Nxt is that Mastercoin requires BTC to function whereas Nxt could replace BTC entirely.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Cryddit on December 26, 2013, 02:34:56 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 26, 2013, 02:25:03 PM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 26, 2013, 01:57:10 PM

not sure if this has been asked, but if transparent miing allows the network to know who will generate the next block, then what is to keep our adversary from also finding out who it is and then DDOSing the ever living hell out that client?

If a forging node can't handle much traffic it can forge behind Tor.

Ohh, that's one of the wrong answers. That's just saying "not my problem" which means you have no solution. I was actually thinking this would work until you failed to answer that.

I know that u just trolling. Welcome to the box with other trolls.

Cryddit

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 26, 2013, 02:25:03 PM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 26, 2013, 01:57:10 PM

not sure if this has been asked, but if transparent miing allows the network to know who will generate the next block, then what is to keep our adversary from also finding out who it is and then DDOSing the ever living hell out that client?

If a forging node can't handle much traffic it can forge behind Tor.

Ohh, that's one of the wrong answers. That's just saying "not my problem" which means you have no solution. I was actually thinking this would work until you failed to answer that.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 26, 2013, 01:57:10 PM

not sure if this has been asked, but if transparent miing allows the network to know who will generate the next block, then what is to keep our adversary from also finding out who it is and then DDOSing the ever living hell out that client?

If a forging node can't handle much traffic it can forge behind Tor.

opticalcarrier

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not sure if this has been asked, but if transparent miing allows the network to know who will generate the next block, then what is to keep our adversary from also finding out who it is and then DDOSing the ever living hell out that client?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: dE_logics on December 26, 2013, 04:30:57 AM

Is this correct?

No. Nxt forging works the same way as Bitcoin does. U can mine a block even with CPU, chance is very low, but reward is very high. In the long run everyone will get exactly the same ROI.

dE_logics

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Thanks for the explanation.

Quote

Yesterday the average base target was ~700%. This means that only 1/7 of all stakeholders were generating blocks, we can't say if the rest 6/7 were hit by bus or trying to fork Nxt blockchain.

This means that with increasing difficulty, instead of reducing the probability of the low valued stake holders to mine blocks, the algorithm cuts off their chance of mining the blocks completely. Now with difficulty 700% (e.g.), only 1/7th of the total coin holders who have the maximum held coins will be able to generate a block. The algorithm cuts out the 6/7th cause they don't have enough balance.

The list of the top 1/7th holder of coins can be generated and so the future miner of the block can be predicted.

Is this correct?

Cryddit

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The difficulty would just need to be proportional to the number of coins being used for mining. Anyway, it doesn't probably need to adjust more than once per a long enough period for the money supply to change significantly. The description is that the factor due to time since the last block is exponential - ie, it doubles once a minute or something like that. So even if there's twice as many coins being used for mining, block times only get one minute shorter. And even if 75% of the coins used for mining are taken offline, the block times would get only two minutes longer.

There's probably no real need for difficulty to change more often than new versions of the client come out. That said, there may be a feedback mechanism that does the difficulty changes built-in, but I wouldn't worry if there isn't.

dE_logics

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 25, 2013, 12:07:06 PM

Quote from: dE_logics on December 25, 2013, 12:05:20 PM

Then can someone please explain?

Ur chance to forge a block depends on BaseTarget (which is the same for all), TimeSinceLastBlock (which is the same for all) and ur account balance:

Code:

Chance = BaseTarget * TimeSinceLastBlock * Balance

Ok, it does not depend on how long you old the coins.

On what basis will the difficulty increase? May large holders of the coin?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: dE_logics on December 25, 2013, 12:05:20 PM

Then can someone please explain?

Ur chance to forge a block depends on BaseTarget (which is the same for all), TimeSinceLastBlock (which is the same for all) and ur account balance:

Code:

Chance = BaseTarget * TimeSinceLastBlock * Balance

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