Trump security adviser unveils new U.S. sanctions to pressure Cuba, Venezuela

tomahawk9

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Quote from: Netnox on April 29, 2019, 12:22:39 PM

I have a feeling that the petro (proposed Venezuelan cryptocurrency) will be used to make payments for shipments of cocaine from Colombia.

I find it hard to believe that drug lords in Colombia would accept a centralized shitcoin, what are they supposed to do with Petro once they get it if you can only spend it in Venezuela and there are no exchanges in the worlds that allow you to covert it to another currency?

Quote from: Netnox on April 29, 2019, 12:22:39 PM

For example, some American gangster can make the payment in petro and the Venezuelan mafia can ship a few tonnes of the drug to Belize or Honduras. And this petro stash can then be resold to USD by the regime.

Wouldn't it be better if an "american gangster" pays with USD or any other fiat currency? And Petro can't be converted to USD as the U.S. prohibited transactions with such scamcoin...You clearly have no idea what you're talking about lol

salty

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Sanctions will not affect Venezuelans in any way.As for the use of bitcoin, I do not think that because of the sanctions it will be used more.To use them, you need to buy them for something, but alas, from an economic point of view, the country is not in a very good position.

Yakamoto

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Quote from: Netnox on April 29, 2019, 12:22:39 PM

I have a feeling that the petro (proposed Venezuelan cryptocurrency) will be used to make payments for shipments of cocaine from Colombia. Crypto can be a very anonymous mode of payment. For example, some American gangster can make the payment in petro and the Venezuelan mafia can ship a few tonnes of the drug to Belize or Honduras. And this petro stash can then be resold to USD by the regime.

I'm unconvinced that there will be much used to pay for illicit materials aside from the USD and local currency (which could the the Petro) when necessary. It's also not like there are a lot of people who can purchase cocaine in Venezuela aside from the highest classes, and even then they likely put most of their money into anything but the Bolivar. If they still need to get their sniff of the white power, they're going to be paying for it in USD.

I'd expect most criminal transactions for illicit goods to take place within the USD since it's easier to get the more valuable currency from the start as opposed to trying to exchange a significant amount of money otherwise. Drugs aren't cheap, there's a lot of money in them, and you can't exactly hide thousands (if not many times that) of dollars being exchanged.

Netnox

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I have a feeling that the petro (proposed Venezuelan cryptocurrency) will be used to make payments for shipments of cocaine from Colombia. Crypto can be a very anonymous mode of payment. For example, some American gangster can make the payment in petro and the Venezuelan mafia can ship a few tonnes of the drug to Belize or Honduras. And this petro stash can then be resold to USD by the regime.

Betwrong

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Quote from: BitHodler on April 23, 2019, 06:41:19 PM

~
On the other hand, do we really want these filthy rich hyenas to enter the world of crypto? I'm sure that we are way better off without them, because they will try to gain control over that what they are involved in.

I think we shouldn't be afraid of that. Bitcoin was designed the way I can only say "Good luck with trying to gain control over it!"

This maybe an irrational thought, but I have a feeling that Bitcoin makes things worse for the bad people laying their hands on it.

Yaunfitda

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Quote from: 1Referee on April 28, 2019, 07:24:57 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on April 28, 2019, 05:53:44 AM

The question is, will Russia accept bitcoin instead? Depends on the price and volatility.

I doubt they even consider Bitcoin to be a viable option. Not because of the price and volatility, but more so because of how Russia seems to be in a hurry when it comes to hoarding as much Gold as possible. The same applies to China. I am fairly sure that the publicly known figures about their aggressive Gold buying doesn't reflect the reality, which is much and much higher.

Another thing is that we don't know how much value the Petrocoin has in this specific case, and if Russia is willing to prop it up and cause some sort of a pump and dump effect.

Did Russia really support Petro though? I thought report surfaces saying that this is FUD.

https://bitcoinist.com/russia-venezuela-petro-not-happening/

And this, U.S Treasury Adds Russian Bank To Sanctions For Petro Involvement. So it's hard to say what extend is Russia involvement in Petro.

Yakamoto

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 28, 2019, 11:12:02 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on April 28, 2019, 05:53:44 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 23, 2019, 11:10:03 AM

These sanctions are never going to work. Look at North Korea. Sanctions have been in place for many years. Did Kim Jong Un destroyed his nuclear stockpile? Same with Venezuela. Despite all the sanctions and embargoes, has Maduro been forced to step down? And the less talked about Cuba that better. The American policy has been a gigantic failure for many decades.

North Korea is helped by China.

Venezuela is helped by both Russia and China - but both will extract a price. Nobody helps for free. Maduro is using Venezuela's gold reserves to buy stuff from Russia. The question is, will Russia accept bitcoin instead? Depends on the price and volatility.

North Korea is helped by both China and Russia, because they don't want the American military bases near their territorial border (the Americans already have a number of military bases in South Korea and Japan). Venezuela doesn't have that advantage. It is located far away from both China and Russia. Russia is currently helping them by purchasing gold and other metals, but I don't think that they are going to offer any financial assistance to the Maduro regime.

Russia is taking advantage of the situation to get assets for pennies on the dollar from Venezuela. While it can be considered unethical, if the US is sanctioning Venezuela it means that other countries won't be accessing their market and the Russians can take full advantage of it. The Venezuelans don't have many options to get the basic necessities into their country either. The Russians don't want to invest in the country, but they're definitely going to take what they can get their hands on. Russia couldn't fund a permanent military base and China probably couldn't find a use for having a military base there. Venezuela will sell their resources for next to nothing, and they literally can't do anything about it until they get their internal situation under control.

Sithara007

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 28, 2019, 05:53:44 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 23, 2019, 11:10:03 AM

These sanctions are never going to work. Look at North Korea. Sanctions have been in place for many years. Did Kim Jong Un destroyed his nuclear stockpile? Same with Venezuela. Despite all the sanctions and embargoes, has Maduro been forced to step down? And the less talked about Cuba that better. The American policy has been a gigantic failure for many decades.

North Korea is helped by China.

Venezuela is helped by both Russia and China - but both will extract a price. Nobody helps for free. Maduro is using Venezuela's gold reserves to buy stuff from Russia. The question is, will Russia accept bitcoin instead? Depends on the price and volatility.

North Korea is helped by both China and Russia, because they don't want the American military bases near their territorial border (the Americans already have a number of military bases in South Korea and Japan). Venezuela doesn't have that advantage. It is located far away from both China and Russia. Russia is currently helping them by purchasing gold and other metals, but I don't think that they are going to offer any financial assistance to the Maduro regime.

Artemis3

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Quote from: tomahawk9 on April 28, 2019, 05:04:34 PM

No country in the world would accept Bitcoin for paymens of goods, services, or whatever. We barely see local stores accepting it as payments, what makes you think a sovereign state would accept Bitcoin?

Because Maduro needs to keep the "elite" happy, by elite I mean his entire crooked cabinet, the armed forces, and the paramilitaries, you know, the people that are keeping him in power. "Feed the people"?, nice joke, if only that were one of the main objective of Maduro's regime, I'm pretty sure that's at the bottom of his priority list right now.

Well so far the Russians have been more than happy to accept our gold as debt payment. Pathetic, given that gold was our reserves, and Maduro spends them illegally, simply because he needs authorization from the Legislative to use them but he doesn't recognize other branches of power that don't obey his whims.

The Chinese are getting crude oil as payment, but they are not giving us any loans anymore, the debt is too tall and the Venezuelan economy too bad.

Putin knows a thing or two about crypto, so its a bit rare he isn't accepting debt payments in bitcoin, perhaps when the next one due October comes we will know (or never) how it is that Maduro is paying debts back to Putin. We know for sure the last one was paid in gold, a plane came and all...

tomahawk9

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 28, 2019, 05:53:44 AM

Venezuela is helped by both Russia and China - but both will extract a price. Nobody helps for free. Maduro is using Venezuela's gold reserves to buy stuff from Russia. The question is, will Russia accept bitcoin instead? Depends on the price and volatility.

No country in the world would accept Bitcoin for paymens of goods, services, or whatever. We barely see local stores accepting it as payments, what makes you think a sovereign state would accept Bitcoin?

Quote from: Netnox on April 28, 2019, 02:07:33 PM

Why can't they just sell the oil wells to Russia and use that money to feed the people?

Because Maduro needs to keep the "elite" happy, by elite I mean his entire crooked cabinet, the armed forces, and the paramilitaries, you know, the people that are keeping him in power. "Feed the people"?, nice joke, if only that were one of the main objective of Maduro's regime, I'm pretty sure that's at the bottom of his priority list right now.

usorin

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Quote from: Baofeng on April 21, 2019, 09:03:55 AM

Trump security adviser unveils new U.S. sanctions to pressure Cuba, Venezuela

Quote

MIAMI (Reuters) - U.S. national security adviser John Bolton announced a series of new sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela on Wednesday as the Trump administration sought to boost pressure on Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and the countries that support him.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-bolton/trump-security-adviser-bolton-unveils-new-u-s-sanctions-to-pressure-cuba-idUSKCN1RT29X

Do you think that the pressure on Maduro will be that effective? And what does it mean to Venezuelans who's into bitcoin already? Will this sanctions be another use case how bitcoin is really going to be used a medium of exchange?

Last February I posted this one Bitcoin Trading In Venezuela Keeps Setting New Records and it seems this trend will continue.

There are certain times when you have to let your child grow and the same goes with those two countries, why do they have to intervene if they don't offer a real solution to their financial and political problems?

Netnox

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Brent crude is now trading at $72 per barrel and it is well above the cost of production in Venezuela. Ideally, the economy should have stabilized due to the high oil prices. But it looks like there is no improvement in the situation and the oil production is dropping with every passing month. Why can't they just sell the oil wells to Russia and use that money to feed the people?

Fabienne_ayy

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Quote from: Baofeng on April 21, 2019, 09:03:55 AM

Trump security adviser unveils new U.S. sanctions to pressure Cuba, Venezuela

Quote

MIAMI (Reuters) - U.S. national security adviser John Bolton announced a series of new sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela on Wednesday as the Trump administration sought to boost pressure on Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and the countries that support him.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-bolton/trump-security-adviser-bolton-unveils-new-u-s-sanctions-to-pressure-cuba-idUSKCN1RT29X

Do you think that the pressure on Maduro will be that effective? And what does it mean to Venezuelans who's into bitcoin already? Will this sanctions be another use case how bitcoin is really going to be used a medium of exchange?

Last February I posted this one Bitcoin Trading In Venezuela Keeps Setting New Records and it seems this trend will continue.

new sanctions on Venezuela’s central bank to prohibit its access to U.S. dollars, it's a bit strict...

1Referee

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 28, 2019, 05:53:44 AM

The question is, will Russia accept bitcoin instead? Depends on the price and volatility.

I doubt they even consider Bitcoin to be a viable option. Not because of the price and volatility, but more so because of how Russia seems to be in a hurry when it comes to hoarding as much Gold as possible. The same applies to China. I am fairly sure that the publicly known figures about their aggressive Gold buying doesn't reflect the reality, which is much and much higher.

Another thing is that we don't know how much value the Petrocoin has in this specific case, and if Russia is willing to prop it up and cause some sort of a pump and dump effect.

alyssa85

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 23, 2019, 11:10:03 AM

These sanctions are never going to work. Look at North Korea. Sanctions have been in place for many years. Did Kim Jong Un destroyed his nuclear stockpile? Same with Venezuela. Despite all the sanctions and embargoes, has Maduro been forced to step down? And the less talked about Cuba that better. The American policy has been a gigantic failure for many decades.

North Korea is helped by China.

Venezuela is helped by both Russia and China - but both will extract a price. Nobody helps for free. Maduro is using Venezuela's gold reserves to buy stuff from Russia. The question is, will Russia accept bitcoin instead? Depends on the price and volatility.

Netnox

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Quote from: Febo on April 23, 2019, 06:01:35 PM

Quote from: Baofeng on April 21, 2019, 09:03:55 AM

Trump security adviser unveils new U.S. sanctions to pressure Cuba, Venezuela

Can they leave Cuba alone? 60 years passed. WTF. Could not those rich asses that were nationalized already got filthy rich again? If not, let them buy Bitcoin and will be rich again in 10 years time. This bullshit has to stop.

It is not that simple. The Cuban American community is very influential in certain states (especially in the swing state of Florida) and in case the president takes a soft stance towards that country, these people will vote en bloc against him. So at least for the next few decades, expect no change in the American stance towards Cuba.

TheCoinGrabber

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Quote from: Jating on April 21, 2019, 12:51:53 PM

Quote from: pishite on April 21, 2019, 12:30:20 PM

Venezuelans using bitcoin is not threatened. Since the price is regulated by the market, not the us government. Perhaps the sanctions will affect only the main economy(agriculture for example). For other aspects, there are cryptocurrency moreover, has its own El Petro coin.

Petro coins is scam.

I guess bitcoin has been established in Venezuela already and as inflation goes up, more people will tend to see bitcoin as their saviour. The blackouts recently cause a lot of problems and if you are a bitcoin miner in Venezuela then you are heavily affected by it.

As fas as use case, well it has been proven already so I guess these recent sanctions will just push people to really go and use bitcoin as a hedge, imho.

Isn't it ironic that as the the power outages increase in frequency more and more people are using bitcoins? Wouldn't this put a hamper to bitcoin adoption there?

Quote from: Naida_BR on April 22, 2019, 04:01:03 AM

The sanctions that Trump poses to Venezuela would definitely not affect Maduro.
They will possibly affect the nation of Venezuela and the citizens. Maduro is not going to leave his seat so easily and he will probably go it until the end.
Citizens will be just pushed to flee to another country in order to make a better living.

Fight or flight. History is filled with despots who have been deposed via revolution, Marcos, Ceaucescu, etc. Pull a cat's whiskers long enough and it will lash back.

Artemis3

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Quote from: BitHodler on April 23, 2019, 06:41:19 PM

On the other hand, do we really want these filthy rich hyenas to enter the world of crypto? I'm sure that we are way better off without them, because they will try to gain control over that what they are involved in.

And not everyone buying are "clean". I can imagine more than one corrupt politician from the regime moving their ill gotten assets into crypto, if they haven't done so already...

That cannot be stopped easily, at least if they are able to use one of the anonymized altcoins. Petro is garbage/scam that will simply disappear should they fall. It is pegged, yet they change the value at whim. It has infinite supply, all nodes are in a single datacenter, code is not released... Pure garbage.

Its ironic now with crypto even rogue govs can do their ill. It used to be Swiss bank accounts but not anymore...

BitHodler

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Quote from: Febo on April 23, 2019, 06:01:35 PM

Can they leave Cuba alone? 60 years passed. WTF. Could not those rich asses that were nationalized already got filthy rich again? If not, let them buy Bitcoin and will be rich again in 10 years time. This bullshit has to stop.

Apparently, this bullshit is worth continuing for many more decades. It really seems that there is something playing behind the scenes that we don't know about, which is the reason these sanctions look nonsensical to us.

Bitcoin they can buy at any time of the year, they don't mind seeing the price pump to $10-$20k because of how this asset could easily reach over $100k one day. This market has always been generous offering entry points.

On the other hand, do we really want these filthy rich hyenas to enter the world of crypto? I'm sure that we are way better off without them, because they will try to gain control over that what they are involved in.

Febo

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Quote from: Baofeng on April 21, 2019, 09:03:55 AM

Trump security adviser unveils new U.S. sanctions to pressure Cuba, Venezuela

Can they leave Cuba alone? 60 years passed. WTF. Could not those rich asses that were nationalized already got filthy rich again? If not, let them buy Bitcoin and will be rich again in 10 years time. This bullshit has to stop.

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