Trump wants to end birthright citizenship - page 3.

Moloch

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The 14th amendment has been used incorrectly. People who were born in the US and who do not reside the US should never have been given citizenships.

The 14th amendment was written to give former slaves citizenship. It was used correctly to give citizenship to anyone born in this country, regardless of whether their parents were citizens or slaves or whatever.

I'm not saying a pregnant woman from another country should be able to fly to the US in 2018 and have a kid who gets automatic citizenship, but that is the way the constitution is worded... and as mentioned before, there is over 100 years of precedent to overturn if you want to change the way the law is interpreted

dogtana

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I guess since Melania's parents got the chain citizenship, he figures it is a good time to start limiting access for new citizens. Happy wife, happy life, eh?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/nyregion/melania-trumps-parents-become-us-citizens.html

LoyceMobile

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LoyceV on the road. Or couch.

Being Dutch, it always stuck me as weird to become a citizen simply for being born somewhere. I never understood the reasoning behind it, we don't have it, so why would it be bad to change it? From what I've read, US citizenship is a burden when it comes to taxes if you don't live there.

Quote from: ?? on ??

From reddit:

Quote

>* "We're the only country in the world where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States ... with all of those benefits," Trump continued.

If this is the full quote, why are they saying it's a lie? No other country makes a baby US citizen by birth, so technically it's correct.

Spendulus

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Quote from: ?? on ??

....
You cannot apply to be an illegal immigrant. Get this through your thick skull.

O debemos hablar en espanol? Que no entiendes?

Might quite possibly have to apply to the drug cartels to be an illegal immigrant, since they really control the last section of Mexico by the US border.

Spendulus

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 10:57:03 AM

.....the wall that he hasn't built a single foot of yet nor is Mexico ever paying for it LOL nor is congress ever going to fund it LOL.

Really?

You might want to check your facts there.

Or not, and we'll see how much you care about facts.

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: ?? on ??

You are confused. You are conflating the taxation system with the immigration system.

There is only legal immigration. If you move and live in the country illegally, you are an outlaw. Nothing to do with immigration.

Calling people who break the law immigrants you are insulting the real immigrants.

You cannot apply to be an illegal immigrant. Get this through your thick skull.

O debemos hablar en espanol? Que no entiendes?

Because all immigrants (sue me) speak Spanish, right?

I don't feel insulted by me using a dictionary definition of "immigrant" so I'm gonna stick to that I think. You can use whatever makes you happy.

Flying Hellfish

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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: coins4commies on October 31, 2018, 10:24:24 AM

Quote from: Megafaucetsme.ga on October 31, 2018, 04:32:37 AM

Quote from: coins4commies on October 31, 2018, 12:34:24 AM

Its almost like the country was designed for people to come here from other places and become citizens. Shocked

If you could get rid of birthright citizenship (you can't, but lets assume you could), then how do you determine who is a citizen and who is not?

Easy just like the rest of the world...the nationality of your parents. That's how it works here in Europe...eeeexcept for France and they are happy about it

Check those places called 'banlieues'.

This is very problematic because there are millions of Americans who will have no way to prove their parents citizenship. It seems like it opens the door for people to be excommunicated for political reasons.

You mean like a Democratic president in the future going after Eric, Don jr and Ivanka because there mother wasn't a citizen when they were born?

The Pussy grabber isn't doing fuck all about the birthright citizenship, Suchmoon is 100% right it is just more campaign red meat with no substance. Kind of like the wall that he hasn't built a single foot of yet nor is Mexico ever paying for it LOL nor is congress ever going to fund it LOL.

suchmoon

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Nope. Look up the Immigration Act for legal definitions.

You should familiarize yourself with the immigration process. Moving to another country without going through the immigration process does not make you an immigrant. You are a visitor, a tourist, a refugee or an outlaw.

I'm very familiar with the immigration process as well as the dictionary. Immigrant is a person who moves to another country. A driver is a driver even if they're drunk and operate a vehicle illegally. BTW there was no "legal" or "illegal" immigration at the time when the 14th amendment was passed so this is particularly meaningless in the context.

Also "alien" doesn't mean "people who visit the country" like you were trying to imply, there is such a thing as a resident alien. You can use any cockamamie definitions you want, just cut this liberal snowflake pussy hat bullshit when someone uses the non-PC words you don't like Grin

(I'm kinda enjoying this, I might be a closet Republican).

coins4commies

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@cryptocommies

Quote from: Megafaucetsme.ga on October 31, 2018, 04:32:37 AM

Quote from: coins4commies on October 31, 2018, 12:34:24 AM

Its almost like the country was designed for people to come here from other places and become citizens. Shocked

If you could get rid of birthright citizenship (you can't, but lets assume you could), then how do you determine who is a citizen and who is not?

Easy just like the rest of the world...the nationality of your parents. That's how it works here in Europe...eeeexcept for France and they are happy about it

Check those places called 'banlieues'.

This is very problematic because there are millions of Americans who will have no way to prove their parents citizenship. It seems like it opens the door for people to be excommunicated for political reasons.

TECSHARE

legendary

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 09:45:04 AM

I'm aware of the current interpretation and I agree, Trump thinking he can pencil whip a change to the constitution is a slap in the face of over a hundred years of precedent.

My question was if the republicans could remove birthright citizenship what would they do about the baby in this situation.

The hypothetical is relevant because a very powerful Republican man had 3 kids with a women who wasn't an American citizen.

I think you are exploiting the conflation between REVOKING existing citizenship and ENDING birthright citizenship to the children of non-citizens.

Flying Hellfish

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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 09:38:55 AM

Any child born in the US is a US citizen by the 14th amendment, neither parent even has to be a citizen... an executive order by Trump cannot change a constitutional amendment

Even if only 1 parent is a citizen and the baby is born in a foreign country, the baby is a US citizen, so long as the parent was physically present in the US or a US territory within the last 5 years

If you want to read more, feel free, here is a link:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html

I'm aware of the current interpretation and I agree, Trump thinking he can pencil whip a change to the constitution is a slap in the face of over a hundred years of precedent.

My question was if the republicans could remove birthright citizenship what would they do about the baby in this situation.

The hypothetical is relevant because a very powerful Republican man had 3 kids with a women who wasn't an American citizen.

Moloch

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 09:33:35 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on October 31, 2018, 09:18:10 AM

Quote

So what should happen to a baby born in the US to an American citizen father and a non American citizen mother?

Sounds like a pretty unique circumstance that could be interpreted by the courts if they were to go back to the original definition, or at least the definition that the author was trying to get across, as was stated before!

Good question though.

I'm curious on your position on this situation tbh. Would you consider the baby to be an American citizen if birth right citizenship was revoked?

Any child born in the US is a US citizen by the 14th amendment, neither parent even has to be a citizen... an executive order by Trump cannot change a constitutional amendment

Even if only 1 parent is a citizen and the baby is born in a foreign country, the baby is a US citizen, so long as the parent was physically present in the US or a US territory within the last 5 years

If you want to read more, feel free, here is a link:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html

Flying Hellfish

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Quote from: squatz1 on October 31, 2018, 09:18:10 AM

Quote

So what should happen to a baby born in the US to an American citizen father and a non American citizen mother?

Sounds like a pretty unique circumstance that could be interpreted by the courts if they were to go back to the original definition, or at least the definition that the author was trying to get across, as was stated before!

Good question though.

I'm curious on your position on this situation tbh. Would you consider the baby to be an American citizen if birthright citizenship was revoked?

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Quote

So what should happen to a baby born in the US to an American citizen father and a non American citizen mother?

Sounds like a pretty unique circumstance that could be interpreted by the courts if they were to go back to the original definition, or at least the definition that the author was trying to get across, as was stated before!

Good question though.

Megafaucetsme.ga

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 2

Quote from: coins4commies on October 31, 2018, 12:34:24 AM

Its almost like the country was designed for people to come here from other places and become citizens. Shocked

If you could get rid of birthright citizenship (you can't, but lets assume you could), then how do you determine who is a citizen and who is not?

Easy just like the rest of the world...the nationality of your parents. That's how it works here in Europe...eeeexcept for France and they are happy about it

Check those places called 'banlieues'.

Roddy Piper

newbie

Activity: 4

Merit: 0

Quote from: dogtana on October 30, 2018, 08:09:04 AM

Is this also to influence future votes? Get rid of those who would likely vote against him. I would say thank dog for 14th amendment, but I don't see checks and balances working very well in US anymore. A lot of Trumps statements and intentions worry me, because US have great influence around the world.

I believe you are absolutely right. He knows well the way to follow for holding the position. And in comeing days, he may take some hard actions against the group of people who didn't support him and non native american. He may impose several laws for our country but i believe he will think deeply from 360^o angel. He should think more that there are also legal imigrrants who are contributing a lot in the US economy.

However, Mr. Trumph is efficient in planing the ♠ Trump card ♠ on time.

coins4commies

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@cryptocommies

Its almost like the country was designed for people to come here from other places and become citizens. Shocked

If you could get rid of birthright citizenship (you can't, but lets assume you could), then how do you determine who is a citizen and who is not?

Flying Hellfish

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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: squatz1 on October 30, 2018, 07:28:28 PM

Hm.

Quote from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/10/30/can-trump-end-birthright-citizenship/#76c466c61c44

The 14th Amendment, Section 1 begins:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside…

Sen. Jacob Howard was the author of the 14th Amendment’s Citizenship Clause. On the floor of the U.S. Senate in 1866, Sen. Howard clarified the meaning of the Citizenship Clause:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

The meaning was not as it is being interpreted as of right now. This is being abused for the 'anchor babies' as Jeb Bush once said!

So what should happen to a baby born in the US to an American citizen father and a non American citizen mother?

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: ?? on ??

Huh?

Immigrants are legal residents. People who visit the country legally or illegally are aliens.

Residency implies a legal status.

I am not even sure why these anchor babies are given the citizenships, the 14th amendment does not apply to them, they do not reside in the US. I guess American lawyers cannot read.

"Immigrant" does not mean legal or illegal. It's a person who moves to another country.

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Hm.

Quote from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/10/30/can-trump-end-birthright-citizenship/#76c466c61c44

The 14th Amendment, Section 1 begins:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside…

Sen. Jacob Howard was the author of the 14th Amendment’s Citizenship Clause. On the floor of the U.S. Senate in 1866, Sen. Howard clarified the meaning of the Citizenship Clause:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

The meaning was not as it is being interpreted as of right now. This is being abused for the 'anchor babies' as Jeb Bush once said!

Topic: Trump wants to end birthright citizenship - page 3. (Read 1197 times)