Topic: Trust No One - page 79. (Read 161312 times)
good guidelines
Seriously. Don't trust the exchanges, don't trust online wallet services, don't trust your anti-virus software, and don't trust anybody online.
If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!
Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!
When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finished-bet-on-bitcoin-future-price-here-july-1st-2011-10008
Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.
If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.
If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.
If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet
Here's my summary:
1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust
Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:
My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .
You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.
In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).
I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.
And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgm4poF3JWE/TgsHwby-BlI/AAAAAAAADwQ/twan94HT6p4/020.jpg
Comic from: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-bitcoin-comic-13903
If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!
- Do you know their full name?
- Do you know where they are located?
- Have they demonstrated trustworthiness in the past?
- Are they asking you to trust them? (red flag)
- Do they have insurance?
Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!
When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finished-bet-on-bitcoin-future-price-here-july-1st-2011-10008
Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.
If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.
If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.
If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet
Here's my summary:
1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust
Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:
My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .
You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.
In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).
I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.
And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgm4poF3JWE/TgsHwby-BlI/AAAAAAAADwQ/twan94HT6p4/020.jpg
Comic from: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-bitcoin-comic-13903
Sorry for the long quote of the OP, but is this still the investment environment of bitcoin (as described in the OP)?
When I see a stickied thread titled "Trust No One" and the OP hasn't been edited in some way, I have to assume the high-risk investment environment still exists. [EDIT] since August 2012?
Is this true?
Obviously, I'm new here. Comments and links appreciated.
thx
thanks for the tips
this is very helpful. thanks for your advice!
Thanks for the advice 
In other words, Bitcoin is like Paypal. Don't send money to unverified strangers.
it's not necessarily about trust, but due diligence.
use a phone book, make sure the name matches the address, and the phone number is real. Call them.
Same thing people do with PayPal when verifying customers.
People who are identified won't be very likely to scam you.
it's not necessarily about trust, but due diligence.
use a phone book, make sure the name matches the address, and the phone number is real. Call them.
Same thing people do with PayPal when verifying customers.
People who are identified won't be very likely to scam you.
Bitcoin is essentially cash. The only thing I worry about is the tracking that comes along with all these new programs. I know for it to truly succeed although we are going to need major infrastructure.
Very helpful advice
a 'trust' list is, as the member said above me, contradictio in adjecto in a sense. this site would require an official escrow system in order to 'endorse' those trustworthy. if escrow cannot be serviced, this 'trust' list is a great cause for scammers, especially in allowing for the incentive to rank, distort, and exploit 'trustworthiness' etc.
Good advice. Is there a resource that lists trusted operators?
Such a list itself shouldn't be trusted as it would be written by a person (or multiple people) on the internet, and in compiling such a list they are implicitly asking you to trust them and their list of trust. Now a web of trust may be another matter, but I'm neither very well versed in the details of a web of trust nor aware of such existing with a focus on the bitcoin community.On topic: I've been on the internet for a long time and have learned by watching others how important it is to not trust anyone with much of anything, even a login to a game or somesuch. Luckily I've never been burned by anyone I did trust, but I am always very careful. Anyway, before I even started actually purchasing and using BTC I set up an offline wallet and all of the BTC I've bought so far have (and any I plan to buy in the future will) be sent to an offline wallet ASAP after being converted. I do need to get my encrypted backups distributed though, as a fire or similar here would wipe most of my copies. Someone here mentioned it before; you shouldn't trust yourself or your home/computer/HDD to be around or available forever either!
Good thread, thanks.
The best thing to do is keep funds for transactions in exchanges, everyday use (if there is any) in a wallet on your pc (connected to the internet) and saving funds that you wont need for a while in an offline armory wallet. These will then be completely safe. Other thatn that invest the funds!
Sad, but common throughout the internet as a whole.
Yeah trust NO ONE. INCLUDING THE TROLLS ON THIS FORUM.
Good advice. Is there a resource that lists trusted operators?
Offline walet is very recomended i think
Quote
don't trust online wallet services
even to Mtgox?
I only store bitcoins offline. I send money to MtGox or other exchanges in small amounts, and only for the length of time it takes to make a transaction and get my money out again.
This gentleman knows what's going on. I don't store bitcoins offline myself because I prefer to keep my money in USD (it's a bit more useful
), but it would be cool to see the internet in general start accepting bitcoins as a payment method. I think once Amazon allows the use of bitcoins an offline wallet will be a very good idea. Until then, I rarely keep bitcoins from one day to the next (unless you count amounts less than half a bitcoin, leftover from transactions) 
This is true. I used bitfloor originally, luckily i did not keep coin in their wallet.
Thanks for writing this, the advice given will help me to protect myself from theft.
Verify, then trust sparingly
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