Topic: Trust No One - page 83. (Read 161312 times)
Thank you for the advice. I used blockchain.info to hold my bitcoins, but when I read this thread, I am starting to think that I should instead stick with the client wallet that weusecoins provides
Sound like wise words there dude, tinfoil-hat level paranoia is a term i like lol.... yes I agree - the current state of bitcoin, and hell the human race in relation to bitcoin as well - both require such a level of paranoia at the moment, hopefully this will change in time.
It just makes me sad to see how many people trust some website with all their bitcoins. Even if a website is trustworthy, we have seen plenty of them get hacked.
Security is the number-one concern of the dev team, so I am confident that someday people will be able to keep them on their PC safely, but there is still a lot of work to be done before we get there.
In the meantime, be paranoid.
Thanks for the advice, I think with what has happened over the past year especially I keep my coins in my own local wallet. If I need to do a transaction I'll do so with the idea of not leaving any extra coins on a site longer than needed, and only to sites that have a decent reputation. I figure any site potentially can be attacked, last thing I'd want is my coins going with it because I was lazy and left them there unnecessarily.
Sound like wise words there dude, tinfoil-hat level paranoia is a term i like lol.... yes I agree - the current state of bitcoin, and hell the human race in relation to bitcoin as well - both require such a level of paranoia at the moment, hopefully this will change in time.
It just makes me sad to see how many people trust some website with all their bitcoins. Even if a website is trustworthy, we have seen plenty of them get hacked.
Security is the number-one concern of the dev team, so I am confident that someday people will be able to keep them on their PC safely, but there is still a lot of work to be done before we get there.
In the meantime, be paranoid.
What's the point of bitcoin if you have to be so paranoid?
I put this post in the Newbies area for a reason
I believe that bitcoin will someday be orders of magnitude more secure (and more valuable). If you buy bitcoins now, you are an early adopter getting in while prices are cheap and betting that security and utility will improve.
In the meantime, yes, you must be absurdly paranoid. These websites cannot be trusted any more than you absolutely have to. To actually hold onto your coins long enough for your investment to pay off, you need to push the paranoia up to the tinfoil-hat level. This is the price of being an early bitcoin adopter.
Sound like wise words there dude, tinfoil-hat level paranoia is a term i like lol.... yes I agree - the current state of bitcoin, and hell the human race in relation to bitcoin as well - both require such a level of paranoia at the moment, hopefully this will change in time.
Here's my 2 cents on the idea of trust and authority.
They are both inevitable and necessary. Economics functions on faith in one another, and authority is a natural feature of our social self-organisation. It is a libertarian pipe dream that the superimposition of some disconnected, artificial framework would actually succeed. Already we are seeing centralisation of Bitcoin trade, as is natural, but because the community is so distrustful of centralisation/authority, often it is unprepared for it and the disorder/lack of regulation has resulted in numerous abuses.
Anonymity is useful in some things but accountability is more useful. There's a reason why, aside from speculation, Bitcoin is mainly used for illegal activity. It may evolve, and bring some of its advantages into the mainstream, but right now it's stuck in neutral at best, because its functionality in the normal (legal) economy is more or less redundant. Only by improving functionality in the normal world (it must be fast, simple, and secure) will Bitcoin succeed. Right now it is fast. It is secure in theory, but in practice not really, because accountability is insufficient, and the steps one must take to actually be secure are cumbersome and unlikely for the average user (consumer). Simple (in terms of making everyday purchases), not at all, tho perhaps progress is being made in this respect as well. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/22/technology/startups/bitcoin-debit-card/
If Bitcoin does not evolve, somebody else will take the idea and run with it, with an improved platform.
They are both inevitable and necessary. Economics functions on faith in one another, and authority is a natural feature of our social self-organisation. It is a libertarian pipe dream that the superimposition of some disconnected, artificial framework would actually succeed. Already we are seeing centralisation of Bitcoin trade, as is natural, but because the community is so distrustful of centralisation/authority, often it is unprepared for it and the disorder/lack of regulation has resulted in numerous abuses.
Anonymity is useful in some things but accountability is more useful. There's a reason why, aside from speculation, Bitcoin is mainly used for illegal activity. It may evolve, and bring some of its advantages into the mainstream, but right now it's stuck in neutral at best, because its functionality in the normal (legal) economy is more or less redundant. Only by improving functionality in the normal world (it must be fast, simple, and secure) will Bitcoin succeed. Right now it is fast. It is secure in theory, but in practice not really, because accountability is insufficient, and the steps one must take to actually be secure are cumbersome and unlikely for the average user (consumer). Simple (in terms of making everyday purchases), not at all, tho perhaps progress is being made in this respect as well. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/22/technology/startups/bitcoin-debit-card/
If Bitcoin does not evolve, somebody else will take the idea and run with it, with an improved platform.
The title sounds like the name of a James bond movie.
I trust deepbit.net with my coins 
Is that considered a problem?
Is that considered a problem?
Deepbit is down at the moment. If you were super FUDdy it might be a problem. But deep bit lets you auto withdraw any amount 3 times a day (unlike btcguild which has a .1 BTC limit).
I trust deepbit.net with my coins
Is that considered a problem?
Is that considered a problem?
Its to bad people are so stupid they put lot of money in the hands of guys like Zhou Tong and Pirateat40.
When something is to good to be true - than it is not good for you.
Unfourtunately this events destroys the reputation of bitcoin for some time...
me too , till he turned into my mum When something is to good to be true - than it is not good for you.
Unfourtunately this events destroys the reputation of bitcoin for some time...
mtgix is up and running , another scam site .
Its to bad people are so stupid they put lot of money in the hands of guys like Zhou Tong and Pirateat40.
When something is to good to be true - than it is not good for you.
Unfourtunately this events destroys the reputation of bitcoin for some time...
me too , till he turned into my mum When something is to good to be true - than it is not good for you.
Unfourtunately this events destroys the reputation of bitcoin for some time...
Its to bad people are so stupid they put lot of money in the hands of guys like Zhou Tong and Pirateat40.
When something is to good to be true - than it is not good for you.
Unfourtunately this events destroys the reputation of bitcoin for some time...
When something is to good to be true - than it is not good for you.
Unfourtunately this events destroys the reputation of bitcoin for some time...
I used to trust my dad, and that's it.
you better don´t trust banks, don´t trust ponzi schemes and finally should give a shit about otc ratings...watch the fireworks and the fingerpointing which is coming...
but you better trust in your ability to destill confidence out of a conversation and thats to find at bitcoinary.com
Cheers Zyk
but you better trust in your ability to destill confidence out of a conversation and thats to find at bitcoinary.com
Cheers Zyk
I never thought a lot about safety. Just bought some bitcoins - more often - bank transfer... no problem ...
To the OP: to my friends I'm apparently super paranoid (just in general), and your level of paranoia makes me wonder how you got into bitcoins in the first place... cough...silkroad....just kidding. But you will live a much longer, happier, truly richer life if you could turn your paranoia into "ok, so I made it really secure" and then just STOP thinking about it. That's what works best for people with OCD, and it works for everybody else, as well.
"Welcome to Bitcoin..... DON'T YOU DARE try to use it for ANYTHING!!!"
lol
lol
what is the percentage of success with bitcoin?
?
? Seriously. Don't trust the exchanges, don't trust online wallet services, don't trust your anti-virus software, and don't trust anybody online.
If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!
Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!
When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finished-bet-on-bitcoin-future-price-here-july-1st-2011-10008
Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.
If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.
If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.
If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet
Here's my summary:
1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust
Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:
My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .
You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.
In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).
I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.
And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgm4poF3JWE/TgsHwby-BlI/AAAAAAAADwQ/twan94HT6p4/020.jpg
Comic from: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-bitcoin-comic-13903
If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!
- Do you know their full name?
- Do you know where they are located?
- Have they demonstrated trustworthiness in the past?
- Are they asking you to trust them? (red flag)
- Do they have insurance?
Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!
When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finished-bet-on-bitcoin-future-price-here-july-1st-2011-10008
Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.
If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.
If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.
If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet
Here's my summary:
1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust
Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:
My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .
You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.
In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).
I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.
And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgm4poF3JWE/TgsHwby-BlI/AAAAAAAADwQ/twan94HT6p4/020.jpg
Comic from: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-bitcoin-comic-13903
I've seen several places where the bitcoiniverse is compared to the wild west. I try to keep that in mind with every transaction.
Trust is earned not given. but in this business guess u need to take a chance
I've always felt the same way about respect.
I trust Starfish
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