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Topic: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump? - page 2. (Read 15511 times)

sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
DRK is just another pump and dump that only benefits the pre-miner!

I just find some good informations about the DRK pre-mine:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26t2ur/darkcoin_premine_proofs/

But.... no proof.

So shut up kid.

Read this:

Quote
There was no pre-mine by the dev..

There was a bug in the difficulty calculation that caused the difficulty to get stuck at a very low number, generating a lot of blocks. This is called an insta-mine.

The 500 DRK per block was exactly as it should be, if you look in the source code you can see that the block reward calculation is different for different hash rates.

And learn how to leak properly, little newbie of internet.


edit: http://cryptolife.net is down for ever, said thank you guys.

Yes, the author give the proofs. Read the topic:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26t2ur/darkcoin_premine_proofs/

About the bug, can you prove it? The dev can say that was a bug but I don't believe it.
And even if this was a bug, the developer would have had to make a airdrop with these pre-mined blocks.

Yea, the "bug" is code that was put there purposely by the dev.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
DRK is just another pump and dump that only benefits the pre-miner!

I just find some good informations about the DRK pre-mine:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26t2ur/darkcoin_premine_proofs/

But.... no proof.

So shut up kid.

Read this:

Quote
There was no pre-mine by the dev..

There was a bug in the difficulty calculation that caused the difficulty to get stuck at a very low number, generating a lot of blocks. This is called an insta-mine.

The 500 DRK per block was exactly as it should be, if you look in the source code you can see that the block reward calculation is different for different hash rates.

And learn how to leak properly, little newbie of internet.


edit: http://cryptolife.net is down for ever, said thank you guys.

Yes, the author give the proofs. Read the topic:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26t2ur/darkcoin_premine_proofs/

About the bug, can you prove it? The dev can say that was a bug but I don't believe it.
And even if this was a bug, the developer would have had to make a airdrop with these pre-mined blocks.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
mining is so 2012-2013
you sell now.  you not lose so much money
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
DRK is just another pump and dump that only benefits the pre-miner!

I just find some good informations about the DRK pre-mine:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26t2ur/darkcoin_premine_proofs/

But.... no proof.

So shut up kid.

Read this:

Quote
There was no pre-mine by the dev..

There was a bug in the difficulty calculation that caused the difficulty to get stuck at a very low number, generating a lot of blocks. This is called an insta-mine.

The 500 DRK per block was exactly as it should be, if you look in the source code you can see that the block reward calculation is different for different hash rates.

And learn how to leak properly, little newbie of internet.


edit: http://cryptolife.net is down for ever, said thank you guys.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
DRK is just another pump and dump that only benefits the pre-miner!

I just find some good informations about the DRK pre-mine:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26t2ur/darkcoin_premine_proofs/
hero member
Activity: 573
Merit: 500

Altcoins don't have the luxury of bitcoin. Not even litecoin has it (next year it'll produce another 10mn coins over the existing 29mn - requiring >100mn USD to buy these, so its price has only one way to go... DOWN)... In effect steady minting of coins leads to dead coins due to inflation.
People can't afford to have a coin that goes like 1mn coin this year, 2mn next year, 3mn the year after etc etc. It's guaranteed suicide in terms of investment. Especially in the first months, inflation can be like 2-3% per day, requiring hundreds of BTCs to keep prices steady.
Uh, yea when the coin has no real value to folks and is just a speculative bubble or a speculative hedge... thats what happens. Not my cup of tea at least. As I've said, I normally leave the altcoin stuff aloneexcept for the rare novel idea, or someone pulling me in for an opinion in one way or another.

gmaxwell's other "contact info"

Other contact info:   
BCN: 23Q8iWbZUtaRdvmpqzoHJy4NwFsRrEqywhjwfbiUqTtqBAHxCNzdctbHZjf1AZKtTkAjgKmhYgkqBU9 T4BEfAgBqKsdS9vi
MRO: 43pCtCRUn6nRdvmpqzoHJy4NwFsRrEqywhjwfbiUqTtqBAHxCNzdctbHZjf1AZKtTkAjgKmhYgkqBU9 T4BEfAgBqKwK21M7
FTM: 6n34ruJrxPU65QLYC3tcAaK8rPGYZrZpD38rJZAwsgjjHGMwSbH8B8MKDwmaG9sPAXT8fwhmRs3PXBq S4y9Ab4UuSKtADUD

And you judge the altcoin space as "incredibly sleazy"?

Keep the noise down drk shill. I want drk back up to peak .... you guys defending the scam are bumping these threads and i'll never get to sell at the price i want for my nice bunch of drk scam coins.

The drk shills are all over other coins claiming scam, picking holes. Stick to your own thread and perhaps the price will go up again. There have been around 20 threads highlighting the pow distribution was a turkey shoot for drk devs and pals. They are mostly bumped by dark shills justifying or denying it happened.

Remain quiet and perhaps people will tire of this scam and find other new scams that can actually be stopped before they grow out of hand.

DRK dev is pretty good at what he does, if he had the entire 2m for himself it would not be so bad as you bunch of greedy slags that got a a bunch for next to nothing by mining when windows miners could not or you scooped up some early sells. I totally changed my mind about evans when he offered in public to do the airdrop. He would have gone for it since he is way smarter than the rest of the drk community. He knows this would have smoothed over the start and allowed the coins to gain a much wider support base.

The start was TERRIBLE so just shut up accept it and these threads will probably die out as more and more scams seem to pop up daily. The focus will eventually shift away from dark if this crap does not rage on forever.

There is no debate, the coin should have been restarted seeing there was no windows wallet and the diff stuck on super instamine settings for hours. However the tempation was too great to keep the coins. We get it. Let's just not let future devs think they can do this kind of stuff.


Ahee, thanks for this info, I remember being complete newbie with only windows on hand, very disappointed about the linux only. I missed a linux-only test giveaway of 1000 drk coins, would have been nice to have them now.

full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
One fact I read from the very fist posts of the DRK thread is someone was selling 40000 DRK for just 1 BTC. Quite sure he is not the only one holding such amount of coins at that time. DRK can be easily mined at the beginning. The rising of BTC price is partially due to reward halving. So once Dev "intentionally" reduced the reward, no wonder DRK can get high. Pretty normal. X11 & DarkSend are just boost of the rising, nothing much significant than this. 
full member
Activity: 146
Merit: 100
I think truth. Just take a look at it's price moving upward in the last weeks. People think this one is a long term winner. Go for it. To da moon............
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Pretty much hate to know the fact of "premine" (not actual meaning of premine, but very close to). Dev just makes use of some tricks to fool people around, and this fact should not be hidden.


(...)
Yeah, sure. If you believe that every pre-announced coin in the altcoin section is instamined by "dev & friends", you need to step back and do a reality check.

The reality is, that ever since the altcoin became profitable, there are hundreds and hundreds of people monitoring the section and mining EVERY SINGLE COIN.
No exception. Every announced coin is mined by hundreds and hundreds of people.

And you know what happens next? The moment coin hits first serious exchange, most early miners dump the coins. That's if they haven't sold through forum already.
Why? Because 99.9% of the coins does not EVER rise more than that. Guaranteed.

The only way for "dev & friends" to get easy coin is:
1) pre-mine
2) ninja launch

None of this happened, and you have exactly.... 0 proof that "dev & friends" holds millions of coins.

Do you still believe "dev & friends" hold millions of coins?

If this wasn't enough, do you really think that mystery buyer would spent 6.2mln USD in BTC between 26/05 - 02/06 buying coins dumped by panic sellers?
Having that much money, you're not stupid, especially buying at such dips.

Do you really think someone smart enough to have 6.2mln USD would have dropped that much money into DRK, if he had even a slight suspicion of it being a scam?
If yes, I'm afraid that even reality check might not help, you've lost it.


Holy Shit lUke Skywalker you made my day hopefully there isnt something hidden we all find out about till then i havent seen evidence one way or another dark coin is in the dark its either make or break and i am sure if there is a huge wallet out there somewhere that person isnt gonna sell till it passes btc if it does.
full member
Activity: 294
Merit: 100
Pretty much hate to know the fact of "premine" (not actual meaning of premine, but very close to). Dev just makes use of some tricks to fool people around, and this fact should not be hidden.


(...)
Yeah, sure. If you believe that every pre-announced coin in the altcoin section is instamined by "dev & friends", you need to step back and do a reality check.

The reality is, that ever since the altcoin became profitable, there are hundreds and hundreds of people monitoring the section and mining EVERY SINGLE COIN.
No exception. Every announced coin is mined by hundreds and hundreds of people.

And you know what happens next? The moment coin hits first serious exchange, most early miners dump the coins. That's if they haven't sold through forum already.
Why? Because 99.9% of the coins does not EVER rise more than that. Guaranteed.

The only way for "dev & friends" to get easy coin is:
1) pre-mine
2) ninja launch

None of this happened, and you have exactly.... 0 proof that "dev & friends" holds millions of coins.

Do you still believe "dev & friends" hold millions of coins?

If this wasn't enough, do you really think that mystery buyer would spent 6.2mln USD in BTC between 26/05 - 02/06 buying coins dumped by panic sellers?
Having that much money, you're not stupid, especially buying at such dips.

Do you really think someone smart enough to have 6.2mln USD would have dropped that much money into DRK, if he had even a slight suspicion of it being a scam?
If yes, I'm afraid that even reality check might not help, you've lost it.

full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
Pretty much hate to know the fact of "premine" (not actual meaning of premine, but very close to). Dev just makes use of some tricks to fool people around, and this fact should not be hidden.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Let us assume gmaxwell is right and that coinjoin on servers are a "chokepoint" because it is not trustless. This does not automatically mean the network of distributed masternodes in Darkcoin is worthless and vapourware.

1. You can run DarkSend a number of times assuming a percentage of masternodes are bad actors and still achieve good privacy.

2. However, let's assume there are zero good masternodes in the network; and the entire masternode system is exclusively owned by bad people; as long as it is different bad people, they will still not be able to unscramble the coinjoin unless they cooperated with each other.  

With Darkcoin as it currently stands would still provide superior functional privacy than relying on one centralised coinmixing server. You can run DarkSend multiple times assuming x% of the masternode network is bad and that x% are owned by different people and get the privacy you want. This appears to me to be very close to full anonymity.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I am still following this thread.  Very interesting. 

+1 for Evan offering up the code, and +1 for Gmaxwell saying he will look it over when it is open source. 

Really, this is what the community needs.  An open source code that devs are willing to share and that others have proofed. 

It seems like more and more of the top 10 coins are not releasing their code to protect their investment.  I get it.  Money is important.  At that point though, the concept of crypto has far strayed from Satoshi's bitcoin of radical financial revolution and instead turned into a money making venture. 

The problem for me is that now that I know it is about the money, it is hard for me to give my money to somebody who is so concerned about getting rich. 

To me, darkcoin's price is really high.  A high price to some means a good coin.   To me, a good coin means a high price.  With this coin, how can I really know if it is good until it is reviewed?

I believe that the biggest scam of all altcoins was litecoin.  It doesn't really offer much value over bitcoin.  At least with something like Darkcoin, there is some kind of additional service.  But still... is this anything that Bitcoin won't be able to do with Coinjoin?  If Bitcoin can, than I say just stick with it.  If it can't, then Darkcoin deserves to be worth a lot.

This is true, which is why I hedge. Will it be possible to implement trust less coinjoin without servers? I do not care if it is done with or without servers. Which is why I believe calling darkcoin worthless is baseless. I do suspect implementing trust less coinjoin with distributed servers is going to be far easier to accomplish than without servers as dark wallet is aiming to do.
legendary
Activity: 1588
Merit: 1000
I am still following this thread.  Very interesting. 

+1 for Evan offering up the code, and +1 for Gmaxwell saying he will look it over when it is open source. 

Really, this is what the community needs.  An open source code that devs are willing to share and that others have proofed. 

It seems like more and more of the top 10 coins are not releasing their code to protect their investment.  I get it.  Money is important.  At that point though, the concept of crypto has far strayed from Satoshi's bitcoin of radical financial revolution and instead turned into a money making venture. 

The problem for me is that now that I know it is about the money, it is hard for me to give my money to somebody who is so concerned about getting rich. 

To me, darkcoin's price is really high.  A high price to some means a good coin.   To me, a good coin means a high price.  With this coin, how can I really know if it is good until it is reviewed?

I believe that the biggest scam of all altcoins was litecoin.  It doesn't really offer much value over bitcoin.  At least with something like Darkcoin, there is some kind of additional service.  But still... is this anything that Bitcoin won't be able to do with Coinjoin?  If Bitcoin can, than I say just stick with it.  If it can't, then Darkcoin deserves to be worth a lot.

gmaxwell in no way endorsed DRK...
and has stated prev that conjoin plus special nodes is very sub-optimal

gmaxwell has been endorsing the CN group of anon coins as dramatically more optimal...
But those groups seem underfunded... and are moving slowly.

So DRK is overpriced... XMR is underpriced.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
WTF THIS THREAD SUCKS!! Huh

NOBODY GAVE CONCRETE evidence SHOWING WEATHER ITS INSTAMINE OR NOT??

NOBODY said Yea this looks good lets go all in folks.

everyone said something different

WTF you trolls



A man buys 2 drk coin and now im thinking I either make a good purchase or i just screwed myself.

Glad i read this thread bunch a rubber neckers nobody goes one way or the other just complete confusion

YOU ALL SUCK Huh Angry
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
mining is so 2012-2013
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049

Besides, since the implementation in Darkcoin is based on both DarkSend+economy+game theory, it's not easily duplicated by other coins. Given that in the current design the nodes know who is transacting with the other, a way had to be devised to solve the bad actor problem. The 12.000 USD per node is the dis-incentive to buy a lot of nodes. When an altcoin is launched a month from now, implementing the opensourced DarkSend, it does not have the same dis-incentives for the bad actor as he can buy the entire monetary base (and the nodes) for peanuts. Thus, from game theory perspective, the implementation won't really work as effectively as with a coin with good distribution + established value. For example DOGEcoin or Litecoin could implement it better than a new coin with zero price.


Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate your taking time to not just scream but explain things in a logical manner.  You also seem in the know about DRK, so I have one more question about these nodes.

I get it that if you are sending money through darksend that I can't see it the same way I can track you on the bitcoin blockchain.  So it keeps me from looking at you, but I am not really worried about person to person tracking.  And 12,000 USD keeps most people out of the node game for sure.

12,000 USD for the NSA, it isn't even dust.  

If the NSA was watching DRK and bought a dozen nodes, wouldn't they be able to see where the money in those nodes is coming and going from?  I mean, they might have to do some extra computer leg work, and cracking, but wouldn't they be able to monitor just where the money coming into their node is coming from and where it is going?  It is their node after all and they are privy to the data coming in and out.  

Thing is, the price isn't static. The more you buy, the more the price rises. So it would be impossible to control, say, half of the darkcoins in circulation or 3/4ths, without the marketcap exploding to something like a billion usd. They'd still have the money for that though, no question.

Regarding traceability... assuming the NSA controls something like 60% of the nodes (that's a lot), if you darksend the money multiple times, and assuming a random selection of node for each round of laundering, the possibility of getting tracked is:

One Darksend: 60%
Two Darksends: 60% x 60% = 36%
Three... = 21.6%
Four = 12.96%
Five = 7.77%
Six = 4.66%
Seven = 2.79%
Eight = 1.67%
Nine = 1%
Ten = 0.6%
Eleven = 0.36%
Twelve = 0.21%
Thirteen = 0.13%

But the NSA in particular has extra ways to discover what you do (controls networks, devices, ip obfuscation nodes, has advanced AI pattern recognition software etc), so that's not even a really accurate reflection. And I think there's also a problem with linking change addresses during DarkSends that might be recombined in some joint future spending. This would probably require something like a scheduled laundering service, like the "windows defrag" for the disk, but that would perform something similar for change addresses. I'm not sure of what the next version of DarkSend will do regarding change denominations.

To make the long story short: NSA-proofing is not easy. When Evan started working on it he wasn't really trying to create an NSA-proof system, just a system that would provide good privacy through obfuscation and encryption that could only be cracked by a very serious adversary like the NSA (not even most governments).

It was after Anonymint's constructive criticism back in March and the Bytecoin & clones appearance when the pressure was built up to deliver something even better and that's where we are today, trying to make a transparent blockchain to provide an almost perfect degree of anonymity - which is of course a problem because you are going against the fundamental design of the system. So we'll see what we end up with after RC4 (anonymity enhancements)...
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
mining is so 2012-2013

Besides, since the implementation in Darkcoin is based on both DarkSend+economy+game theory, it's not easily duplicated by other coins. Given that in the current design the nodes know who is transacting with the other, a way had to be devised to solve the bad actor problem. The 12.000 USD per node is the dis-incentive to buy a lot of nodes. When an altcoin is launched a month from now, implementing the opensourced DarkSend, it does not have the same dis-incentives for the bad actor as he can buy the entire monetary base (and the nodes) for peanuts. Thus, from game theory perspective, the implementation won't really work as effectively as with a coin with good distribution + established value. For example DOGEcoin or Litecoin could implement it better than a new coin with zero price.


Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate your taking time to not just scream but explain things in a logical manner.  You also seem in the know about DRK, so I have one more question about these nodes.

I get it that if you are sending money through darksend that I can't see it the same way I can track you on the bitcoin blockchain.  So it keeps me from looking at you, but I am not really worried about person to person tracking.  And 12,000 USD keeps most people out of the node game for sure.

12,000 USD for the NSA, it isn't even dust. 

If the NSA was watching DRK and bought a dozen nodes, wouldn't they be able to see where the money in those nodes is coming and going from?  I mean, they might have to do some extra computer leg work, and cracking, but wouldn't they be able to monitor just where the money coming into their node is coming from and where it is going?  It is their node after all and they are privy to the data coming in and out. 
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
mining is so 2012-2013
I am still following this thread.  Very interesting. 

+1 for Evan offering up the code, and +1 for Gmaxwell saying he will look it over when it is open source. 

Really, this is what the community needs.  An open source code that devs are willing to share and that others have proofed. 

It seems like more and more of the top 10 coins are not releasing their code to protect their investment.  I get it.  Money is important.  At that point though, the concept of crypto has far strayed from Satoshi's bitcoin of radical financial revolution and instead turned into a money making venture. 

The problem for me is that now that I know it is about the money, it is hard for me to give my money to somebody who is so concerned about getting rich. 

To me, darkcoin's price is really high.  A high price to some means a good coin.   To me, a good coin means a high price.  With this coin, how can I really know if it is good until it is reviewed?

I believe that the biggest scam of all altcoins was litecoin.  It doesn't really offer much value over bitcoin.  At least with something like Darkcoin, there is some kind of additional service.  But still... is this anything that Bitcoin won't be able to do with Coinjoin?  If Bitcoin can, than I say just stick with it.  If it can't, then Darkcoin deserves to be worth a lot.
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