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Topic: Turkey´s Civil War: Fighting moving from rural areas to cities - page 4. (Read 4763 times)

legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Yes, and it´s obvious that by shooting down the Russian plane Turkey helped the Kurds enormously. Now they have both Americans and Russians actively supporting them. It´s strange because it was such a painfully inevitable outcome. Piss off Russia and what does Russia do? That´s right.

I am not very sure about the American support. The PYD/YPG Kurdish faction, which is fighting in Syria is very close to the PKK of Turkey. Their relations with the Iraqi Kurdish factions (which are having friendly relations with both the Turks and the Americans) are not very warm. Remember that PKK is a banned terrorist organization in the United States.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Yes, and it´s obvious that by shooting down the Russian plane Turkey helped the Kurds enormously. Now they have both Americans and Russians actively supporting them. It´s strange because it was such a painfully inevitable outcome. Piss off Russia and what does Russia do? That´s right.
newbie
Activity: 57
Merit: 0
It looks obious that the end goal is to get Kurdish people to have their own country, the World is just in a period of massive transformations that's it
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 7912
Kurds should have their own country seceding from Turkey. Turkish leaders are barbarians, and Republic of Kurdistan needs to be established. Right inside Turkey.

kurds are barbarians for me.. they are asking for some rights by using terrorism instead of using peaceful ways.. this is what we hate..

If they blow up soldiers that can hardly be called terrorism. After all the military blows up civilians on a regular basis. Is that terrorism?

 Terrorism - the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Yes it is.


Bill Clinton agrees

terror — meaning killing and robbery and coercion by people who do not have state authority and go beyond national borders —

https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/11/30/bill-clintons-world/

 I imagine Bill knows a lot more about terrorism than I but I'll have to take you at your word as the site at the end of this link wants me to subscribe to read the article.  While I appreciate others' opinions, I don't always like to pay for it.

Edit.
Actually that statment looks contrived to protect state-sanctioned militarism to promote American interests on an international level.  So, Bill and I do not agree.



I get this subscription nagging but get to the article. I did register with them maybe that´s the difference. Foreign Policy is the mouthpiece of the CFR so it´s straight from the horse´s mouth I guess.

Thanks! I'll try signing up and see if I can view articles.  I was on my android phone earlier; maybe it will work differently from my desktop too.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Kurds should have their own country seceding from Turkey. Turkish leaders are barbarians, and Republic of Kurdistan needs to be established. Right inside Turkey.

kurds are barbarians for me.. they are asking for some rights by using terrorism instead of using peaceful ways.. this is what we hate..

If they blow up soldiers that can hardly be called terrorism. After all the military blows up civilians on a regular basis. Is that terrorism?

 Terrorism - the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Yes it is.


Bill Clinton agrees

terror — meaning killing and robbery and coercion by people who do not have state authority and go beyond national borders —

https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/11/30/bill-clintons-world/

 I imagine Bill knows a lot more about terrorism than I but I'll have to take you at your word as the site at the end of this link wants me to subscribe to read the article.  While I appreciate others' opinions, I don't always like to pay for it.

Edit.
Actually that statment looks contrived to protect state-sanctioned militarism to promote American interests on an international level.  So, Bill and I do not agree.



I get this subscription nagging but get to the article. I did register with them maybe that´s the difference. Foreign Policy is the mouthpiece of the CFR so it´s straight from the horse´s mouth I guess.
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 7912
Kurds should have their own country seceding from Turkey. Turkish leaders are barbarians, and Republic of Kurdistan needs to be established. Right inside Turkey.

kurds are barbarians for me.. they are asking for some rights by using terrorism instead of using peaceful ways.. this is what we hate..

If they blow up soldiers that can hardly be called terrorism. After all the military blows up civilians on a regular basis. Is that terrorism?

 Terrorism - the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Yes it is.


Bill Clinton agrees

terror — meaning killing and robbery and coercion by people who do not have state authority and go beyond national borders —

https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/11/30/bill-clintons-world/

 I imagine Bill knows a lot more about terrorism than I but I'll have to take you at your word as the site at the end of this link wants me to subscribe to read the article.  While I appreciate others' opinions, I don't always like to pay for it.

Edit.
Actually that statment looks contrived to protect state-sanctioned militarism to promote American interests on an international level.  So, Bill and I do not agree.

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Kurds should have their own country seceding from Turkey. Turkish leaders are barbarians, and Republic of Kurdistan needs to be established. Right inside Turkey.

kurds are barbarians for me.. they are asking for some rights by using terrorism instead of using peaceful ways.. this is what we hate..

If they blow up soldiers that can hardly be called terrorism. After all the military blows up civilians on a regular basis. Is that terrorism?

 Terrorism - the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Yes it is.


Bill Clinton agrees

terror — meaning killing and robbery and coercion by people who do not have state authority and go beyond national borders —

https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/11/30/bill-clintons-world/
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 7912
Kurds should have their own country seceding from Turkey. Turkish leaders are barbarians, and Republic of Kurdistan needs to be established. Right inside Turkey.

kurds are barbarians for me.. they are asking for some rights by using terrorism instead of using peaceful ways.. this is what we hate..

If they blow up soldiers that can hardly be called terrorism. After all the military blows up civilians on a regular basis. Is that terrorism?

 Terrorism - the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Yes it is.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Kurds should have their own country seceding from Turkey. Turkish leaders are barbarians, and Republic of Kurdistan needs to be established. Right inside Turkey.

kurds are barbarians for me.. they are asking for some rights by using terrorism instead of using peaceful ways.. this is what we hate..

If they blow up soldiers that can hardly be called terrorism. After all the military blows up civilians on a regular basis. Is that terrorism?
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Kurds should have their own country seceding from Turkey. Turkish leaders are barbarians, and Republic of Kurdistan needs to be established. Right inside Turkey.

kurds are barbarians for me.. they are asking for some rights by using terrorism instead of using peaceful ways.. this is what we hate..
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Things have been heating up. Two attacks on the Turkish military yesterday and today. And they seem about to invade Syria. Stay tuned.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
As Syria burns, Turkey’s Kurdish problem is getting worse

By Ishaan Tharoor February 3 at 9:15 AM

Not far from the Turkish border with Syria, another war is raging.

In the heart of the ancient city of Diyarbakir, behind its historic black-stone walls, security forces have been engaged for weeks in clashes with the youth wing of an outlawed Kurdish separatist group. Whole neighborhoods have been sealed off under curfew; tens of thousands of people have been forced to flee.

The mini-rebellion has been echoed elsewhere in Turkey's restive southeast, a region that is home to a majority Kurdish population and that has been in the grips of a low-level civil war since tensions flared last summer. The violence is likely the worst seen in the past two decades.

The Turkish government claims more than 200 policemen and soldiers have been killed since July, while some estimates place the local civilian death toll around that number as well. The Turkish crackdown on the militants — fighters belonging to the banned Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK — has led to more than 500 guerrilla deaths.

There's little indication of the hostilities calming. Since a peace process between the two sides fully collapsed last year, separatist-minded Kurds in a number of towns and neighborhoods pushed for de facto autonomy. The predominantly Kurdish border town of Cizre has been a hotbed of unrest and resistance for more than a year now and is now in the midst of an intense Turkish military clampdown.

Rights groups and critics of the Turkish government accuse the state of denying civilians stuck in the siege adequate access to medical care. On Tuesday, the top human rights official at the United Nations also urged Ankara to investigate an incident that occurred last month, which involved the apparent shooting of unarmed civilians, leading to a number of casualties.

Video footage appeared to show a group of civilians moving in front of an armored military vehicle before they "were cut down by a hail of gunfire," said Zeid Raad al-Hussein, the U.N. high commissioner for human rights.

Turkish authorities have previously rejected claims that their security forces were impeding aid to civilians. "They are deliberately not bringing the wounded out," said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, referring to the Kurdish militants holed up in parts of Cizre and other towns in Turkey's southeast.

The PKK's insurgency has blown hot and cold since the early 1980s. It has led to some 40,000 deaths in those years. Under the rule of Erdogan and his Justice and Development Party, some of the causes for Kurdish grievance — including the suppression even of the use of their own language — started to be addressed. But the shadow of the Syrian war has led to a profound unraveling.

As WorldViews noted earlier, the territorial gains made by Syrian Kurdish militias over the past two years had ripple effects across the border. The Turkish government, which has spent decades attempting to subdue Kurdish separatist ambitions, looked on with horror as the PYD, a Syrian Kurdish faction historically linked to the PKK, emerged as a key player in northern Syria. The PYD's role on the front lines of the war against the Islamic State endeared it to the West, including the United States, which gave it aid.

"Ankara’s real fear is that the PYD’s success in Syria will dangerously strengthen the PKK in its fight against Turkey," writes Nicholas Danforth, a Turkey scholar at the Bipartisan Policy Center. "For Washington, by contrast, the PYD’s military success confronting [the Islamic State] in Syria remains the group’s main appeal."

This tension is playing out in the current, fitful round of U.N.-brokered talks over the Syrian conflict in Geneva. Turkey insisted that the PYD not be extended an invitation; the United States, an increasingly grudging ally, acquiesced. Russia, whose military intervention on behalf of the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad infuriated Turkey, is now also opportunistically cozying up to the Syrian Kurds. It had earlier demanded the PYD be included in the talks.

Ankara casts the PYD as a stooge agent of the Assad regime; the PYD, meanwhile, accuses Turkey of aiding the Islamic State in order to undermine the prospect of an autonomous Kurdish state along its border.

Within Turkey, criticism of the government's actions has led to harsh punishments. Turkish prosecutors are currently seeking life sentences for two prominent journalists who published a story that linked the Turkish government to arms shipments sent to Syrian rebel factions across the border. In a wholly separate case, an academic at a university in Ankara faces seven years jail time for simply circulating an exam question that involved the writings of the PKK's jailed leader, Abdullah Ocalan.


The escalation of violence and instability in the region has grave consequences for larger crises currently vexing the international community.

"Turkey's domestic peace is not an issue for Turkey alone," Selahattin Demirtas, a leading opposition politician and co-leader of the Peoples' Democratic Party, a leftist, pro-Kurdish party, told reporters in Brussels last week. "It is directly related to the resolution of the Syrian conflict and to the migration problem in Europe."

All the while, resentment and anger is festering on the streets of Diyarbakir and other majority Kurdish cities. The city boasts a huge cemetery for Kurdish youth who have gone off to fight across the border in Syria. A radicalization has set in.

"Many residents of these towns are poor families who were forced to flee the countryside when the conflict between the Kurds and the Turkish state was at its peak in the 1990s," writes Abdullah Demirbas, a former mayor of Sur, the old quarter in Diyarbakir that's now the epicenter of clashes. "Those who are digging trenches and declaring 'self-rule' in Sur and other cities and towns of southeastern Turkey today are mostly Kurdish youths in their teens and 20s who were born into that earlier era of violence, poverty and displacement, and grew up in radicalized ghettos."

Demirbas, a controversial figure in his own right, has seen one of his own sons join the PKK.

"Now a new generation will grow up with the trauma of killing, destruction and forced migration," he writes. "Where will they go? What will become of them?"


Ishaan Tharoor writes about foreign affairs for The Washington Post. He previously was a senior editor at TIME, based first in Hong Kong and later in New York.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/03/as-syria-burns-turkeys-kurdish-problem-is-getting-worse/
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
Turkey is deeply different state. You have Istanbul and west coast where are tourism and hotel facilities and this is most civilized part of country. In area of Van lake and near border with Syria and Anadloya well you have customs similar to ISIS, and Kurds. Kurds are only one on a true battle front with ISIS. Now all cities on west coast and Istanbul will be bombs, because of ISIS and all those who wants modern Turkey gone. And Erdogan will open attack Kurds in Turkey
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
Turkey is a fractured state. 10 years ago, there was a hope the sad days were over with some autonomy to Eastern areas of Turkey, but it's all gone now. Civil war is back on the agenda, and it will take years before some kind of peace can be achieved, if ever. Besides, things are changing in the South, too. The border between Syria and Irak will never again be what it was a decade ago. I don't know how, but several countries will have to be remapped.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Kurds and Turkish people were always in fight. Kurds are now the only one who is against ISIS. Cities in Turkey are like a bombs now. Kurds,domestic people,terrorists..soon willl be an open war there especially in Istanbul, Izmir and other

I think so. And as ISIS gets defeated in Syria and Iraq they´ll go to Turkey. Which probably won´t be good for stability. Maybe Erdogan´s dream of a Greater Turkey will end in a fractured state.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
Kurds and Turkish people were always in fight. Kurds are now the only one who is against ISIS. Cities in Turkey are like a bombs now. Kurds,domestic people,terrorists..soon willl be an open war there especially in Istanbul, Izmir and other
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Turkey’s urban war leaves thousands of Kurds without homes

DIYARBAKIR, Turkey — In his 1853 travelogue about Diyarbakir, German orientalist Julius Heinrich Petermann described how he reached the city after sunset to find the fortress gates locked and had to wait for the morning to enter the city. More than 160 years later, those waiting at the gates of the old walled city — now Diyarbakir’s district of Sur — are its own Kurdish residents, forced out from their homes amid clashes between the Turkish security forces and armed militants entrenched in residential areas.´

On a cold winter day last week, dozens of people — refugees in their own city — waited at the checkpoint at the entrance of Sur, desperate to be let in to take a few belongings from their homes, since they had fled with only the clothes on their backs. The police would not budge, leading one resident to exclaim, “We’ve sheltered the Syrians, but who is going to shelter us?”

Five neighborhoods in Sur have been sealed off under a round-the-clock curfew for almost two months as the police and the army battle militants of the Patriotic Revolutionary Youth Movement (YDG-H), the youth wing of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK). The rebels have been holding out behind trenches and barricades in narrow residential streets, often planted with explosives and booby traps.

On Jan. 27, the scope of the curfew was extended to six other neighborhoods, where YDG-H militants were found to be holed up. Residents were ordered to evacuate their homes — some by the police, others by the YDG-H — but the sound of gunfire rang out before they were able to leave. The civilians’ flight from the area was a run for their lives.

Ramazan Mutlu, a 65-year-old who waited at the checkpoint on Jan. 29, recounted how the rattle of spades startled him one night around midnight last week. When he went out to check, he saw masked men digging a ditch. He admonished them, but they would not stop. Shortly, the police arrived and the diggers ran away. The police ordered Mutlu’s building evacuated. Some 40 people, all from the same clan, left the three-story building in haste, taking refuge with relatives in other neighborhoods or nearby villages.

“Because they dug trenches, vehicles could not enter the neighborhood. The police told us to leave and come back in the morning to collect our stuff,” Mutlu told Al-Monitor as he waited in vain for the promised permission to go back and collect belongings.

“We are now left homeless. Some of us went to the village; others were scattered around [the city]. … Different people have sheltered me in their homes during the nights. If we can’t take our belongings tomorrow as well, we’ll probably go to the village and become shepherds,” Mutlu said.

He waited some more at the checkpoint, but the police were unrelenting. As Mutlu walked away — probably to look for a place to spend the night — an agitated woman argued with the police. “Let me go and take a blanket at least,” she pleaded in vain.

“We left only with the clothes we had on,” she told Al-Monitor, refusing to give her name or have her picture taken. “My eldest son is doing his military service, and I don’t have a husband. What is a single woman like me supposed to do?”

The woman said the order to evacuate their home, which was on a street where clashes were taking place, came from the police. “There was nowhere for me and my children to go. A charitable man offered us shelter. He gave us a room in his home, but we have no belongings with us. We all sleep on the floor,” she said.

The woman’s long wait at the checkpoint also proved futile. Desperate, she walked away as another woman sought to negotiate with the police. Pointing at her legs, she pleaded, “Look, this is still the pantyhose with which I left.”

Other residents, who lived in a building close to Sur’s gate, said they were ordered to leave by YDG-H militants, who also blew up the building’s electric transformer.

As the crowd at the checkpoint grew, the police announced with a loudspeaker that no one would be allowed to cross and urged the people to disperse. Soon, the crowd dwindled. Mansur Izgi, too, walked away, grumbling. He had hoped to go to Sur to collect the belongings of his parents and siblings, who had taken shelter in his house.

For Izgi, the plight of his family and other Sur residents was little different from that of the refugees fleeing the civil war in Syria. “If they let us go, we’ll take my parents’ belongings and settle them in another place,” Izgi told Al-Monitor. “We’ve become refugees in our own lands. The Syrians came and Turkey took them in, but who is going to take us in?”

In another corner of Sur, throngs of panicked people made their way out, even though the expanded restrictions did not cover their neighborhoods. The exodus was triggered by rumors that the clashes would soon spread to that neighborhood. Better-off residents rented trucks to take along their belongings, while others hurried away with big bundles on their backs. The authorities sought to dispel the rumors, but few seemed to take notice.

Human rights groups estimate that some 30,000 residents of Sur, roughly a fourth of the district’s population, have fled, in addition to tens of thousands more displaced across the mainly Kurdish southeast, where urban clashes have been raging since the summer. According to a report presented at a recent meeting of the ruling Justice and Development Party, the clashes in Sur and the towns of Silopi, Cizre and Nusaybin, the main theaters of the fighting, have “affected” 220,000 people out of a total population of 439,000, caused 93,000 people to migrate and damaged 10,300 small businesses. The report said more than 520 PKK militants were killed, but it made no mention of civilian deaths, which the Turkish Human Rights Foundation put at 124 in late December.

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, for his part, said last week that 600 families were forced to flee their homes in Sur, promising financial assistance for their accommodations and reconstruction projects for the ancient quarter.

At present, however, the old city remains in the grips of deadly unrest and human suffering. On Jan. 29, the security forces seized the YDG-H’s largest weapons cache so far in a house in Sur. Five soldiers were killed and four others were wounded in clashes in the next two days, mostly by sniper fire.



Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/02/turkey-expanding-clashes-leave-thousands-without-home.html#ixzz3yxli41de



legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
How can they separate "evil" and "innocent" people? ~%90 of Kurds support PKK. You can't fight with whole race. I think the problem is normally they can live together but governments don't want them to live together. If Kurds build a new country in Iraq-Syria borders they would want to get some Turkish land too.

I don't think that the NATO will allow the Kurds to have their own independent country. At the most, they will be granted autonomous cantons in Syria, just like what they are having in Northern Iraq. The future of Turkish Kurdistan is even more complex. The Turks will fight tooth and nail to prevent the creation of a Kurdish autonomous territory out there.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
yes it started long years ago but it wasnt started by turkish government .. it was started by a terrorist organisation called ''PKK'' . Turkish forces wants to root away this evil force not innocent people..

How can they separate "evil" and "innocent" people? ~%90 of Kurds support PKK. You can't fight with whole race. I think the problem is normally they can live together but governments don't want them to live together. If Kurds build a new country in Iraq-Syria borders they would want to get some Turkish land too.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 1028
When the Iraqi regime under Saddam Hussein did the same against the Kurds, the Americans and the British were among the first to react. Remember the Halabja chemical attack in 1988? But now, when Turkey is perpetrating even worse atrocities, the NATO is remaining silent. It is not a civil war. It is just a one-sided genocide against unarmed people.

Well, I think it started long ago and is now seriously escalating. In a few weeks garbage media will be unable to ignore it anymore. It´s good to try to be ahead of the curve, so starting this thread.

yes it started long years ago but it wasnt started by turkish government .. it was started by a terrorist organisation called ''PKK'' . Turkish forces wants to root away this evil force not innocent people..
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