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Topic: UEFA Champions League 2023/24 Season - page 410. (Read 141787 times)

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March 02, 2024, 11:32:55 AM
Bayern Munich needs to focus on this competition, seems like the Bundelisga is going to the Leverkusen hands (until Leverkusen dont do a Borusia Dortmund clasic finish), so they need to win this key against Lazio, setled down and think and prepare the quarterfinals in a very serious way.
I don't think Bayern Munich can win the CL this season, the team just hasn't clicked under Tuchel and that is why the club is parting ways with him at the end of the season. From the looks of things, this might be a trophyless season for Bayern Munich, something that has not happened in a very long time. Having said that, Lazio have the lead in this tie going into the second leg, and despite the fact that the second leg is a home game for Bayern, i still consider Lazio favorites to qualify at this time, they know what they have to do in this second leg and if they execute it perfectly, they'll be the team to progress to the QF.

Bayern Munich needs much more hard work even for the Bundesliga and they are not even close to getting anything in the Champions League where there are some stronger and better teams than Leverkusen in this tournament. They even hired Tuchel who is an experienced and successful coach in the Chmapnis League but I don't think if that's going to work for them.
Even Tuchel is about to leave the team and that's why I think there is no hope for them for this tournament.
Instead, we can bet on other teams like Real Madrid for the Champions League title.
Actually, I'm surprised at Bayern Munich, it's like we can't see what the problem is, it's like a mystery that's hard to solve, whereas if we blame Tuchel, even though Tuchel managed to make a good contribution last season, and if we blame the players, even though Bayern Munich's current players are very high quality without any shortcomings, even Harry Kane makes Bayern stronger at the moment but for some reason his performance is very bad.
I was wondering if this was just a drama that Tuchel was carrying out to give a surprising impression when he succeeded in the Champions League.
Almost all supporters are worried if Bayern fails in the Champions League and Bundesliga to win the title but I still have confidence that Bayern Munich will make it to the semi-finals.
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March 02, 2024, 11:05:10 AM
When did Harry Kane joined the team? Why would fans feel that he is part Of the problem the team is facing now. Yes, they may have had the joy that he would bring about more improvement in the team and instead Bayern Munich is still underperforming compared to there level. However before now Bayern has been going through this problem before Harry Kane came to the league and the manager should try to fix this problem instead of poor Hary Kane going through some emotion blackmail via the posts on social media that ever since he came it has been nothing but failure for Bayern.
If Harry Kane was also performing badly the fans would have surely seen him as a part of the problem. I would never expect to see the opposite.  Smiley But right now he is even the best performing player in his first season. He is just very unlucky about winning titles. He has brought the curse with himself to Bayern Munich I'm afraid.

Harry Kane's misfortune for Bayern Munich seems natural. But I don't think so. Firstly Harry Kane's performance was very good with Munich. And secondly, Munich's performance has been weak since the previous season. Munich's woes have started since the coach change. Munich's performances last season were erratic. They were very lucky to be able to win the title last season. I would say Thomas Tuchel is a complete failure with Bayern Munich. And Tuchel's failure is why Munich's performance is so poor.

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However of course people can't blame this look of Bayern Munich on Kane anyway. What can Kane do more than this? He has scored so many goals so far. But even Tuchel is criticizing him for some reason. Tuchel had better think about how horrible he has managed the team this season.  Sad

Kane is trying his best to perform well. He has managed to score a lot of goals. Kane's overall performance is very good. If Kane doesn't perform well, we can blame Kane. But Munich's overall performance is poor. Bonding between players is also weak. The team did not perform well in the last match against Freiburg. In such a situation, the blame should not be placed solely on Kane.
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March 02, 2024, 10:10:21 AM
Bayern Munich needs to focus on this competition, seems like the Bundelisga is going to the Leverkusen hands (until Leverkusen dont do a Borusia Dortmund clasic finish), so they need to win this key against Lazio, setled down and think and prepare the quarterfinals in a very serious way.
I don't think Bayern Munich can win the CL this season, the team just hasn't clicked under Tuchel and that is why the club is parting ways with him at the end of the season. From the looks of things, this might be a trophyless season for Bayern Munich, something that has not happened in a very long time. Having said that, Lazio have the lead in this tie going into the second leg, and despite the fact that the second leg is a home game for Bayern, i still consider Lazio favorites to qualify at this time, they know what they have to do in this second leg and if they execute it perfectly, they'll be the team to progress to the QF.

Bayern Munich needs much more hard work even for the Bundesliga and they are not even close to getting anything in the Champions League where there are some stronger and better teams than Leverkusen in this tournament. They even hired Tuchel who is an experienced and successful coach in the Chmapnis League but I don't think if that's going to work for them.
Even Tuchel is about to leave the team and that's why I think there is no hope for them for this tournament.
Instead, we can bet on other teams like Real Madrid for the Champions League title.
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March 02, 2024, 10:04:59 AM
Different seasons comes with elite teams, and we keep hoping for this particular one to come with good expectations. Manchester City and Real Madrid are the only promising club that will reach the UEFA Champions League final and we hope the best comes with incredible results. While other clubs like Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain still struggling to stand on their fit, the promising ones knows how to handle their problem. The UCL final I would hope to watch is Real Madrid vs Manchester City because it's a fight between top clubs.
While Manchester City and Real Madrid's final appearance is hyped, I think its too soon to dismiss other contenders. This final matchup is intriguing because City and Madrid are in great form. But football - especially the Champions League - is unpredictable. Bayern Munich and PSG are struggling, but they have the resources and potential to recover. Despite their current form, dont dismiss them.

Inter Milan and Barcelona, perennial underdogs, have proven they can compete with Europe's best. Inter's season has improved, and Barcelona remains a threat in Europe despite their ups and downs. The real test comes in the knockout stage, where a draw may finish any club. As much as I want a City-Madrid match, Im keeping an open mind.
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March 02, 2024, 09:58:23 AM

PSG and bayern munich became unfavored club for me to win UCL. The performance from these clubs were so poor even though they have spent a lot of money to build the club but it means nothing. Manchester city is still leading the way to get UCL this season along with real madrid and intermilan.
I don't understand why arsenal being included into the favorite club to win UCL this season while it was not even able getting europa league last season. We are all hoping that there will be very entertaining match between real madrid vs the big club like city or intermilan

That will be very entertaining i guess. This round is so fucking easy for some big clubs to qualify but i think that there will be another interesting match to come soon. Manchester city will have a strong club to be its opponent in the upcoming game.
Barcelona is still performing quite well and it needs only to win with good aggregate to quality for the another round. Manchester city is still on the right way to win back to back treble winners again this season. Things are going to be very easy if Mcity will face easy opponent in the upcoming game.

As long as there will always be haaland and de bruyne. Im feeling city has power to get UCL back to back again. Manchester city is still on full power right now to win the trophy soon.
Pep's team is still on the track to get treble winner again this season.
The UCL is one competition im Europe that has majorly teams who’ve done well and attain certain levels in their league that season qualifying for the elite competition. This competition is one that is loved by all and majorly won by the big money spenders who have invested a lot in their club. At the start of the competition each season, there are usually favorites to win the competition and this season wasn’t short of that. We had favorites and we had the likes of current holders, Man City, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern and the likes.

 Well in every competition as time goes in, we see teams surprisingly decline in performance and  that’s the story of Bayern and PSG. They’re supposed to be favorites but they’re currently playing like teams and for this reason no one is seeing them as a threat of any kind. These teams have also spent and invested heavily into club football like others but things went sour and I think the coach pattern wasn’t favorable especially for a team like Bayern. For PSG, I will say they’re quite okay with how they play as the less competition in the league isn’t making them worried at all.

 I think the major favorites are Man City and Real Madrid then we can look at the likes of Inter Milan and Arsenal especially as Arsenal are an improved and full of young blood but I think experience will have to come to play. Well this year’s edition will be filled with enough surprises and fun especially with the City and Madrid squad now getting complete. I’m majorly rooting for Real Madrid to get this title because they’re having a better team of the two.
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March 02, 2024, 09:53:43 AM
If Harry Kane was also performing badly the fans would have surely seen him as a part of the problem. I would never expect to see the opposite.  Smiley But right now he is even the best performing player in his first season. He is just very unlucky about winning titles. He has brought the curse with himself to Bayern Munich I'm afraid.

However of course people can't blame this look of Bayern Munich on Kane anyway. What can Kane do more than this? He has scored so many goals so far. But even Tuchel is criticizing him for some reason. Tuchel had better think about how horrible he has managed the team this season.  Sad
Do you think Harry Kane had bad performed? he was scored 27 goals of 24 matches in Bundesliga and his performed very well for giving the best performed in this season. But Bayern Munich had bad performed with their defense players and conceded many goals in this season not only in domestic league but also Bayern Munich losses in Champion League match. Facing the second leg match against Lazio, Bayern Munich had bad capital after hold draw by Freiburg last match and make difficult for raising to the top position standings and right now remaining 7 points and potential becoming 10 points if Leverkusen win upcoming match.
Thomas Tuchel must improve his team performance on second leg match and make huge pressure on the early minutes if want get chance qualify to quarter final.
as I said a few days ago that Bayern Munich currently does not have any problems except a very weak defense and we can see and compare from the start of the season Bayern Munich performance is very strong with big score wins without being able to concede in large numbers while Munich has reliable striker Kane who always contributes scores to win, but we see that currently he is conceding more often even though Kane often scores, but if the defenders are weak, it certainly won't be equivalent to the struggle of Kane who tries to score in every match.
this is the reason why some people might blame Tuchel because he is the one most responsible for Munich future and this time if there are no changes to the defense it is likely that he will fall in the quarter finals or even worse, he will not qualify against Lazio.

I was wondering whether this had something to do with the players being comfortable with Tuchel so it seemed like there was no enthusiasm from the Bayern Munich players even though there were no problems whatsoever happening at Bayern Munich at the moment.
Logically it doesn't make sense what is happening to Bayern Munich at the moment but I hope that this kind of bad performance will not last long.
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March 02, 2024, 09:52:53 AM

Bayern Munich must be happy with their current form if they are lucky to progress against Lazio. The team is currently not on a par with Manchester City or Real Madrid and should therefore not be any competition against those two teams this season. In terms of individual players, Bayern is certainly on a par with Man City and Real, but these individual players are currently do not function well as a team.
The fans are not happy with their current form, they are dropping points in the matches they are supposed to win maximum points that is why Leverkusen given them more points gap because they are playing very well with the ambition to win the Bundesliga title this season. Bayern Leverkusen is one of the best teams in the Europe top leagues as they are yet to lose any match in the Bundesliga this season.

Comparing Bayern to Manchester City and Real Madrid this season is not proper because their players are not in the same class individually and the coaches are not of the same class as well. If Bayern win Lazio and qualify to the next round, then we can say all what we can say about them but for now, they are not good.
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March 02, 2024, 09:32:15 AM
~


Quote
Harry Kane really couldn’t have done too much more in his debut campaign at Bayern Munich.

The England captain and record goalscorer has consistently found the net for the Bundesliga giants, with WhoScored noting that he has 31 goals from 31 games in all competitions as well as eight assists.
Harry Kane could beat Lewandowski’s all-time record

With a dozen games still left to play in the German top-flight season, he could well beat Robert Lewandowski’s all-time record of 41, set in the 2020/21 season for the Bavarians.

Clearly, he is an integral part of his club side, so it’s a pity that a number of his colleagues aren’t up to the same level.

Source: https://www.caughtoffside.com/2024/03/01/tottenham-return-harry-kane-bayern/

If you look back and remember that Bayern where Lewandowski achieved his impressive statistics, then I would assume that in that Bayern Kane would have already broken Lewandowski's record. After all, Lewandowski could not have lost all his skills in one summer (the one in which he moved to Barcelona) or been influenced by age? A lot depended on the team. It’s a shame that Kane moved to a top club and ended up in a crisis club whose prospects are no longer clear.
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March 02, 2024, 09:31:13 AM
If Harry Kane was also performing badly the fans would have surely seen him as a part of the problem. I would never expect to see the opposite.  Smiley But right now he is even the best performing player in his first season. He is just very unlucky about winning titles. He has brought the curse with himself to Bayern Munich I'm afraid.

However of course people can't blame this look of Bayern Munich on Kane anyway. What can Kane do more than this? He has scored so many goals so far. But even Tuchel is criticizing him for some reason. Tuchel had better think about how horrible he has managed the team this season.  Sad
Do you think Harry Kane had bad performed? he was scored 27 goals of 24 matches in Bundesliga and his performed very well for giving the best performed in this season. But Bayern Munich had bad performed with their defense players and conceded many goals in this season not only in domestic league but also Bayern Munich losses in Champion League match. Facing the second leg match against Lazio, Bayern Munich had bad capital after hold draw by Freiburg last match and make difficult for raising to the top position standings and right now remaining 7 points and potential becoming 10 points if Leverkusen win upcoming match.
Thomas Tuchel must improve his team performance on second leg match and make huge pressure on the early minutes if want get chance qualify to quarter final.
legendary
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March 02, 2024, 09:15:56 AM
Different seasons comes with elite teams, and we keep hoping for this particular one to come with good expectations. Manchester City and Real Madrid are the only promising club that will reach the UEFA Champions League final and we hope the best comes with incredible results. While other clubs like Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain still struggling to stand on their fit, the promising ones knows how to handle their problem. The UCL final I would hope to watch is Real Madrid vs Manchester City because it's a fight between top clubs.

It is difficult to predict which teams will reach the Champions League final this season, but Manchester City and Real Madrid are considered strong favorites to qualify for the final. Manchester City has a strong squad and is performing admirably in European competitions this season, while Real Madrid is distinguished by its rich history in the Champions League and its experience in major competitions. Therefore, if both teams continue at a strong level and continuous performances then it is possible to see them both in the final. Personally, i wouldn't like to see both of the them in the final because it would be difficult to bet either on thye final result or the number of goals. There are a lot of other good teams that deserves to reach the final. Maybe it's time for classic club to retire Smiley
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March 02, 2024, 08:57:07 AM
Different seasons comes with elite teams, and we keep hoping for this particular one to come with good expectations. Manchester City and Real Madrid are the only promising club that will reach the UEFA Champions League final and we hope the best comes with incredible results. While other clubs like Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain still struggling to stand on their fit, the promising ones knows how to handle their problem. The UCL final I would hope to watch is Real Madrid vs Manchester City because it's a fight between top clubs.

A lot of clubs are trying their best but their best is not enough and that is why clubs that are putting much effort are the clubs that are succeeding because they choose to put extra effort and that is why people are always acknowledging Manchester city and real Madrid, and i don't know why i just dot like Manchester city they are just to proud even there fans and i will want real Madrid to win the champions league because even last season they had upper hand to win but they became unserious along the line and Manchester city were able to win, and i want this season to be different even  last season psg tried there best but along the line it did not work out for them because last season Manchester city was not that serious so it was even very easy for them to win the two trophies but i have a strong believe that this season is going to be different.
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March 02, 2024, 08:45:37 AM
~Snip~
Manchester City looks strong because they're not only won the match, but they're able to humiliate the opponents too. But don't underestimate both Real Madrid and Inter Milan, they're only lose one match in their own respective domestic league, while Manchester City lose three times.

Statistic says Real Madrid will win, strength says Manchester City will win, but my heart says Inter Milan will win.
There is no doubt about Manchester City strength, last season's statistics in the Champions League have left Real Madrid with deep wounds after being humiliated in the semifinals. This season Manchester City is still one of the favorite teams, their strength is still very perfect even though they have faltered in several EPL matches.

It's too early to predict which team will win the race for the UCL trophy, Real Madrid still has a chance, Inter Milan is also in their best condition. Anything can still happen because there are still many matches to be played, these teams are also fighting to win trophies in their respective leagues. The injury factor of several key players could change everything, the coach is very afraid if a key player gets injured because it would make the team's performance a little shaky.
tyz
legendary
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March 02, 2024, 08:31:29 AM
Bayern Munich was considered as one of best teams to challenge Manchester City and Real Madrid when the season started. Because they got Harry Kane from summer transfer and it continued to be like this after first half of season. It only changed recent weeks when Bayern Munich shown many problems and rumor is it comes from conflict between their coach and players. If rumor is true, it is not problems from quality of their players and they still have potential to go far in Champions League.

Bayern Munich must be happy with their current form if they are lucky to progress against Lazio. The team is currently not on a par with Manchester City or Real Madrid and should therefore not be any competition against those two teams this season. In terms of individual players, Bayern is certainly on a par with Man City and Real, but these individual players are currently do not function well as a team.
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March 02, 2024, 08:28:43 AM
If Harry Kane was also performing badly the fans would have surely seen him as a part of the problem. I would never expect to see the opposite.  Smiley But right now he is even the best performing player in his first season. He is just very unlucky about winning titles. He has brought the curse with himself to Bayern Munich I'm afraid.

However of course people can't blame this look of Bayern Munich on Kane anyway. What can Kane do more than this? He has scored so many goals so far. But even Tuchel is criticizing him for some reason. Tuchel had better think about how horrible he has managed the team this season.  Sad
It would be too easy to come and get all the titles, if he wants that then with Bayern he will achieve it. Every team goes through difficult times, maybe he was just unlucky to come to the team at such a time and there is no curse here.

There is nothing to blame Kane for, he does his job, he does it just as well as he did at Tottenham. I am more inclined to believe that the reason for Bayern’s failures lies in Tuchel, after all, the coach plays a very important role in the team, starting with the choice of strategy for the game, the starting lineup and possible corrections during the game, this is a very difficult job. In addition, the coach must be a good motivator for the players and be able to communicate with them. Tuchel failed to do this in Bayern.
legendary
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March 02, 2024, 08:07:19 AM
When did Harry Kane joined the team? Why would fans feel that he is part Of the problem the team is facing now. Yes, they may have had the joy that he would bring about more improvement in the team and instead Bayern Munich is still underperforming compared to there level. However before now Bayern has been going through this problem before Harry Kane came to the league and the manager should try to fix this problem instead of poor Hary Kane going through some emotion blackmail via the posts on social media that ever since he came it has been nothing but failure for Bayern.

If Harry Kane was also performing badly the fans would have surely seen him as a part of the problem. I would never expect to see the opposite.  Smiley But right now he is even the best performing player in his first season. He is just very unlucky about winning titles. He has brought the curse with himself to Bayern Munich I'm afraid.

However of course people can't blame this look of Bayern Munich on Kane anyway. What can Kane do more than this? He has scored so many goals so far. But even Tuchel is criticizing him for some reason. Tuchel had better think about how horrible he has managed the team this season.  Sad
legendary
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March 02, 2024, 07:52:01 AM
We still have a long way to go before we can actually see Real Madrid and Manchester City meet in the final round and we also can't be sure whether everything will go according to plan or not. Real Madrid and Manchester City are two teams that appear very promising compared to other teams, but this still cannot guarantee that they will be truly successful, especially as we know that the Champions League is full of unexpected surprises, so anything can still happen here.
Other teams like Bayern Munich are having problems, so that makes us doubt them. In the first leg of the round of 16 alone, they narrowly lost to Lazio, which makes us even more doubtful of them in the Champions League this season. But we'll see, because their chances are still quite big.
It's not surprising, but the teams remaining in the Champions League are the best teams in Europe at the moment, so we shouldn't underestimate either of them. It is clear that Real Madrid and Manchester City have a slightly better quality of performance than the others, but because the differences are not too significant, anything is possible.
I think Real Madrid and Manchester City's journey will not be easy this season because there are several teams that I think should be wary of because they have quite improved performance this season, such as Inter Milan.
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March 02, 2024, 04:49:14 AM
We still have a long way to go before we can actually see Real Madrid and Manchester City meet in the final round and we also can't be sure whether everything will go according to plan or not. Real Madrid and Manchester City are two teams that appear very promising compared to other teams, but this still cannot guarantee that they will be truly successful, especially as we know that the Champions League is full of unexpected surprises, so anything can still happen here.
Will they have to meet each other in quarter finals or semi finals?

If they are in a same branch, they potentially will have to meet each other on their way to a final match. If they meet each other earlier than the final match, we can call it as an early final match of Champions League 2023 - 2024 and it is actually deserved to be consider like this.

Quote
Other teams like Bayern Munich are having problems, so that makes us doubt them. In the first leg of the round of 16 alone, they narrowly lost to Lazio, which makes us even more doubtful of them in the Champions League this season. But we'll see, because their chances are still quite big.
Bayern Munich was considered as one of best teams to challenge Manchester City and Real Madrid when the season started. Because they got Harry Kane from summer transfer and it continued to be like this after first half of season. It only changed recent weeks when Bayern Munich shown many problems and rumor is it comes from conflict between their coach and players. If rumor is true, it is not problems from quality of their players and they still have potential to go far in Champions League.
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March 02, 2024, 03:56:16 AM
Different seasons comes with elite teams, and we keep hoping for this particular one to come with good expectations. Manchester City and Real Madrid are the only promising club that will reach the UEFA Champions League final and we hope the best comes with incredible results. While other clubs like Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain still struggling to stand on their fit, the promising ones knows how to handle their problem. The UCL final I would hope to watch is Real Madrid vs Manchester City because it's a fight between top clubs.
We still have a long way to go before we can actually see Real Madrid and Manchester City meet in the final round and we also can't be sure whether everything will go according to plan or not. Real Madrid and Manchester City are two teams that appear very promising compared to other teams, but this still cannot guarantee that they will be truly successful, especially as we know that the Champions League is full of unexpected surprises, so anything can still happen here.
Other teams like Bayern Munich are having problems, so that makes us doubt them. In the first leg of the round of 16 alone, they narrowly lost to Lazio, which makes us even more doubtful of them in the Champions League this season. But we'll see, because their chances are still quite big.
legendary
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March 02, 2024, 03:05:01 AM
Different seasons comes with elite teams, and we keep hoping for this particular one to come with good expectations. Manchester City and Real Madrid are the only promising club that will reach the UEFA Champions League final and we hope the best comes with incredible results. While other clubs like Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain still struggling to stand on their fit, the promising ones knows how to handle their problem. The UCL final I would hope to watch is Real Madrid vs Manchester City because it's a fight between top clubs.


PSG and bayern munich became unfavored club for me to win UCL. The performance from these clubs were so poor even though they have spent a lot of money to build the club but it means nothing. Manchester city is still leading the way to get UCL this season along with real madrid and intermilan.
I don't understand why arsenal being included into the favorite club to win UCL this season while it was not even able getting europa league last season. We are all hoping that there will be very entertaining match between real madrid vs the big club like city or intermilan

That will be very entertaining i guess. This round is so fucking easy for some big clubs to qualify but i think that there will be another interesting match to come soon. Manchester city will have a strong club to be its opponent in the upcoming game.
Barcelona is still performing quite well and it needs only to win with good aggregate to quality for the another round. Manchester city is still on the right way to win back to back treble winners again this season. Things are going to be very easy if Mcity will face easy opponent in the upcoming game.

As long as there will always be haaland and de bruyne. Im feeling city has power to get UCL back to back again. Manchester city is still on full power right now to win the trophy soon.
Pep's team is still on the track to get treble winner again this season.
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March 02, 2024, 02:08:57 AM
Instead of making parables about Bayern Munich and Arsenal being difficult obstacles for Manchester City, it seems more appropriate to say about Real Madrid and also Inter or maybe also about PSG. At least, the three teams are teams that have at least a safe position in their respective league standings. Therefore, those three teams have a good chance to have a great focus in the Champions League this season. So yes, although Manchester City are still very promising good results because of the greatness of De Bruyne and Haaland, but I personally might be looking forward to the results from unseeded teams like Inter and PSG, maybe they will get good results too at this moment to be able to advance further of course.

Everything will depend on the draw. If we remember last season, Inter reached the final the “easy” way, while City beat all their main competitors (like Real Madrid in the previous season). City don't look as dominant this year so a difficult draw could seriously hurt them. In the 1/8 they were extremely lucky and got Copenhagen, now if in the 1/4 they get a difficult opponent (in theory there should be no easy opponents in the 1/4) then they will have problems since there will be a series of games in the Premier League against direct competitors. I'm not sure City can be successful in both.
Regarding the opportunity for Manchester City to return against strong teams in the Champions League, it will really disturb their minds in defending their title. At the same time, they also have to think about how to defend their domestic league title and these two competitions are consecutive blows that could destroy them. The mental readiness of the players is needed to face the schedule and difficult opponents in the future and there is nothing they can do if everything just disappears.

I am well aware that this will be a challenge that will not be easy for Manchester City to overcome, but as much as possible they have to prove that they are a big team at the moment in any competition because they have a genius coach and talented players. What happens if in the previous season they were very strong but this season they are having difficulties, all football observers will assume that their time has ended in a short time. But if I am very aware that if it doesn't go as it should, it's not a bad thing because every season there will always be changes that they can't control.
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