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Topic: UEFA Champions League 2023/24 Season - page 859. (Read 141853 times)

legendary
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November 06, 2023, 01:58:04 AM
Group C is been dominated by Real Madrid having won all their three games, they are definitely sure to qualify for the next round of the UCL, it's really sad how union Berlin is performing so poorly at the champions league, so far they are yet to win or draw a single game in the UCL.


They are the only team in the group C of the UCL who is yet to get a single point,  Napoli just as expected is doing well and have won two out of the three games they have played so far and I think they are sure going to qualify because meeting union Berlin I their next match at home will definitely be a tough one as they wouldn't want to be humiliated by Berlin at home so it's most likely a win with a small goal margin as Berlin would want to make sure they get a draw or possibly win in that match.

Madrid and napoli. These clubs will be qualified for the knock out stage. There's no reason for real madrid not to win this group caused by it was not performing so well. Napoli still needs to get more points as the club is not yet face at this moment.
The gap to the club below it is not that big compared with real madrid. Madrid needs to win 1 or 2 matches and it will able to go to the next round with winner of group status.

Real madrid is the strongest club in this group. Im always betting on real madrid coz this club has very big probability to win.
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November 06, 2023, 01:08:40 AM
Group C is been dominated by Real Madrid having won all their three games, they are definitely sure to qualify for the next round of the UCL, it's really sad how union Berlin is performing so poorly at the champions league, so far they are yet to win or draw a single game in the UCL.
This is an easy competition for Real Madrid and we also see that their chances of coming out as champions groups are very big because so far they are unbeaten. Napoli, who are considered Real Madrid's toughest competitors, are not showing balanced competition and they are actually having difficulty performing like last season.
Real Madrid journey in the group stage was still very smooth, there was no worry at all on Ancelotti's face about Real Madrid's chances. Nine points were collected from three matches, Real Madrid was also able to beat one of the teams considered to be its toughest opponent in the group stage. Real Madrid will emerge as group winners and Napoli will accompany Real Madrid as representatives of group C, these two teams are superior to SC Braga and Union Berlin who are still in third and fourth positions. The draw that Real Madrid just got in La Liga when they were held to a draw by Rayo Vallecano will not affect their performance in the UCL because their main focus this season is winning the UCL trophy after experiencing failure last season in the semifinals.
Talking about the most comfortable position at the moment, it is not only Real Madrid who have successfully won 3 times in three matches but also Bayern Munich, Manchester City and Barcelona who currently have a safe position leading each group and is it possible that we will get another new record when Bayern Munich which might be against Real Madrid who are trying to win this CL title and also Manchester City who have the ambition to get another trophy in this champions league.
I think this season the Champions League is quite interesting and competitive after entering the round of 16 because several of the clubs I mentioned earlier have had quite strong changes, even Real Madrid, which last season experienced a very bad decline in performance, this season has started to show its very strong strength again. great and for me domestic matches will never affect performance in the CL because domestic matches will probably only be considered a little less important and Ancelotti will only provide a strategy to not waste too much energy and save the performance of his mainstay players to be able to perform optimally in this champions league.
sr. member
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November 06, 2023, 12:57:52 AM
Group C is been dominated by Real Madrid having won all their three games, they are definitely sure to qualify for the next round of the UCL, it's really sad how union Berlin is performing so poorly at the champions league, so far they are yet to win or draw a single game in the UCL.

They are the only team in the group C of the UCL who is yet to get a single point,  Napoli just as expected is doing well and have won two out of the three games they have played so far and I think they are sure going to qualify because meeting union Berlin I their next match at home will definitely be a tough one as they wouldn't want to be humiliated by Berlin at home so it's most likely a win with a small goal margin as Berlin would want to make sure they get a draw or possibly win in that match.
For Group C, it seems that Real Madrid and Napoli will progress to the next stage quite easily. Because Union Berlin and Braga don't seem to be able to match the performance of Real Madrid and Napoli. Even in this match, Napoli will definitely be the favorite because the match which will take place at Napoli's home ground will clearly make Napoli more confident to score more goals. And likewise, the Real Madrid vs Braga match will definitely belong to Real Madrid. Because there is a fairly clear difference in strength between Braga and Real Madrid.

Currently Group F is the fiercest. Because it is filled with strong teams, it is difficult to see who will qualify. But PSG seems like the one that will definitely qualify. But for one other team I'm not sure which team will qualify.
legendary
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November 06, 2023, 12:35:04 AM
Group C is been dominated by Real Madrid having won all their three games, they are definitely sure to qualify for the next round of the UCL, it's really sad how union Berlin is performing so poorly at the champions league, so far they are yet to win or draw a single game in the UCL.


They are the only team in the group C of the UCL who is yet to get a single point,  Napoli just as expected is doing well and have won two out of the three games they have played so far and I think they are sure going to qualify because meeting union Berlin I their next match at home will definitely be a tough one as they wouldn't want to be humiliated by Berlin at home so it's most likely a win with a small goal margin as Berlin would want to make sure they get a draw or possibly win in that match.
Don't have to talk about the Champions League, even in the local competition Union Berlin was very bad, not only did they lose but they also had difficulty scoring goals, there was a drastic decline they experienced and that made the competition in group C only between Real Madrid and Napoli.
At the beginning of the season, it was predicted that Union Berlin could be the team that disrupted the targets of the two teams because Braga was clearly the team that was least taken into account in the group, but everything went very differently, Union Berlin had not even scored any points at all and the teams in the group will make the match against Union Berlin an opportunity to earn points.
When they face Napoli on Wednesday, it will be very difficult for Union Berlin to avoid defeat, and maybe they will just try not to concede many goals because a big defeat will make Union Berlin's players' mentality even worse.
In the fourth match, it seems like it will be certain which team will qualify from Group C, namely Real Madrid and Napoli.
Napoli has benefited quite a lot from the decline experienced by Union Berlin because they are also one of the teams that were not as good as last season.
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November 06, 2023, 12:01:13 AM
Group C is been dominated by Real Madrid having won all their three games, they are definitely sure to qualify for the next round of the UCL, it's really sad how union Berlin is performing so poorly at the champions league, so far they are yet to win or draw a single game in the UCL.
This is an easy competition for Real Madrid and we also see that their chances of coming out as champions groups are very big because so far they are unbeaten. Napoli, who are considered Real Madrid's toughest competitors, are not showing balanced competition and they are actually having difficulty performing like last season.
Real Madrid journey in the group stage was still very smooth, there was no worry at all on Ancelotti's face about Real Madrid's chances. Nine points were collected from three matches, Real Madrid was also able to beat one of the teams considered to be its toughest opponent in the group stage. Real Madrid will emerge as group winners and Napoli will accompany Real Madrid as representatives of group C, these two teams are superior to SC Braga and Union Berlin who are still in third and fourth positions. The draw that Real Madrid just got in La Liga when they were held to a draw by Rayo Vallecano will not affect their performance in the UCL because their main focus this season is winning the UCL trophy after experiencing failure last season in the semifinals.
hero member
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November 05, 2023, 11:30:06 PM
~~ Snip ~~

He could have done better in selecting the players. He also had a big transfer window and didnt bring any special players just bought some players from Ajax. He tried to bring the gameplay from Ajax to Man Utd and that just dosent work. Some players dont even like him so this causes problems in the dressing room and thats where the bad results come from aswell.
The biggest mistake in the Manchester United squad was in the hands of Ten Hag as coach and so far there hasn't really been any surprising breakthroughs shown by Manchester United while being coached by Ten Hag.
Initially he threw away several old players by replacing young players but it was all in vain and Manchester United is now feeling the financial loss.

Several problems arose and there was little conflict between the players, but all of this would actually worsen the atmosphere and also affect the team performance when competing because it would definitely cause misunderstandings between the players.

Those who are pro Manchester United say that currently there is good development but I myself don't see it, there is any development shown by Manchester United.
If they only play against weak teams then I believe they can win but this is UCL match and there are strong teams in each group.
Manchester United failed to manage the internal conflict that occurred and seemed to let it drag on until today, this has been the main factor in their drastic decline in performance. Furthermore, everyone involved in the club does not seem to be walking in one direction, the vision and mission are aligned with the same goal of building United towards its return to glory. Other problems such as player injuries complement the strategic errors implemented by Ten Hag, in the end the setback that is occurring now is inevitable.

There are a lot of issues going on behind the scenes, and I think the problems at hand are more complex than we see. I think some of us still remember Mourinho controversial statement in 2019, which when viewed in light of United current situation is very relevant. Their steps in the UCL will really determine Ten Hag future, however The Red Devils squad must win to get out of this big pressure.
That is the problem that Manchester United has been experiencing since some time ago when Manchester United was coached by Ralf Rangnick, they were actually in not very good condition and after that the arrival of Ten Hag was expected to change everything but it failed.
Problem after problem always comes and must be felt by this big squad from England which makes them quite far behind other big teams.

Recently, there have been lots of rumors circulating that Ten Hag could potentially suffer the fate of being fired if in the near future he cannot provide change for Manchester United because they also want to return to competing to become champions rather than continuing to be involved in an endless conflict.
Maybe change of coach could bring changes to Manchester United, especially now that Sheikh Jassim has full control over the Red Devils squad and with the finances he has, Manchester United can look for coach with very good qualities to make these changes happen.
hero member
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November 05, 2023, 10:24:10 PM
Group C is been dominated by Real Madrid having won all their three games, they are definitely sure to qualify for the next round of the UCL, it's really sad how union Berlin is performing so poorly at the champions league, so far they are yet to win or draw a single game in the UCL.
This is an easy competition for Real Madrid and we also see that their chances of coming out as champions groups are very big because so far they are unbeaten. Napoli, who are considered Real Madrid's toughest competitors, are not showing balanced competition and they are actually having difficulty performing like last season.

They are the only team in the group C of the UCL who is yet to get a single point,  Napoli just as expected is doing well and have won two out of the three games they have played so far and I think they are sure going to qualify because meeting union Berlin I their next match at home will definitely be a tough one as they wouldn't want to be humiliated by Berlin at home so it's most likely a win with a small goal margin as Berlin would want to make sure they get a draw or possibly win in that match.
Napoli will ensure their place as runners-up in Group C and if you look at the quality shown by Union Berlin and Braga, it will not be difficult for Rudi Garcia to reach that position because they will only have difficulty facing Real Madrid, while the other two teams will be easier for them to beat. Facing Union Berlin at home will increase the motivation of the players because they will try to apply pressure at the start of the match and will score quick goals that will disturb the Union Berlin players mentally. If you look at Union Berlin's playing conditions in their last five matches it is not difficult for Napoli to secure three points at home.
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November 05, 2023, 08:02:44 PM
Group C is been dominated by Real Madrid having won all their three games, they are definitely sure to qualify for the next round of the UCL, it's really sad how union Berlin is performing so poorly at the champions league, so far they are yet to win or draw a single game in the UCL.


They are the only team in the group C of the UCL who is yet to get a single point,  Napoli just as expected is doing well and have won two out of the three games they have played so far and I think they are sure going to qualify because meeting union Berlin I their next match at home will definitely be a tough one as they wouldn't want to be humiliated by Berlin at home so it's most likely a win with a small goal margin as Berlin would want to make sure they get a draw or possibly win in that match.
hero member
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November 05, 2023, 06:55:56 PM
The quality of manchester united player this season is of course very good, like Rashford and other player, but their performance this season has declined drastically, like rashford. I think manchester united will have difficulty getting through to the round of 16 because Galatasaray already know show to beat them in this second leg.
Yes, the quality of Man United players should be good enough. Rashford, Hojlund, Mount, Bruno Fernandes, Amrabat, Varane, and Onana are top players. And there are many other good players in Man United squad. But I agree that the problem is their performance is decreasing a lot during this season. I think there is a problem with the coach. It can be about the tactic or the way of Ten Hag to motivate the players. Ten Hag must evaluate his way to manage the players.

I think Man United still has a chance if the players can improve their performance in the next matches. It is not something impossible to defeat Galatasaray and Copenhagen. Man United squad quality is much better than those teams. Man United only need to try how to play as a solid team for the next matches.

Maybe I think Manchester united will be eliminated or go down to the european league this season and in fact they don't have a stronger mentality compared to other team such as newcastle united and Arsenal.
Although they have no strong mentality but I still believe they have a chance to finish in the second place. I trust the quality of Man United squad, they actually deserve to finish the group stage as the runner up. Let's see how Man United performance in the remaining matches. I hope there is a change in Man United game.

hero member
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November 05, 2023, 05:54:33 PM
AC Milan's performance this season in the UEFA Champions League competition has been poor and way below what we saw from the what we saw from the last season's semi finalists. They have been able to pick up just two points from their first three games in the competition abd from all the indications, I don't think they can make it out of the group  because they'll have to win their remaining three matches in the group stage to stand a chance of progressing to the knockout stages which I think is very unlikely to happen.
They play against Paris Saint Germaine at the San Siro on Tuesday and any result other than a win I think will bury any hope of making it out of the group
Yes, I also doubt AC Milan performance this season because AC Milan has not won in the Champion League this season, which makes their performance worse this season. In fact, there is a big possibility that they will be eliminated in the group phase because the other teams are so strong when compared to AC Milan. AC Milan does not have a strong mentality this season because they were beaten by a big score by PSG and also managed to be held to a draw by Newcastle United in San siro. I think management mistake was releasing Tonali in the transfer window last season even though he was an important player in AC Milan.

So, looking at the next 3 matches, other team are definitely more favorites to steal point from AC Milan when they meet. Because the instability in AC Milan performance will be exploited by the opposing team to be able to beat them. I think in the upcoming match where AC Milan will face PSG of course PSG are very favorites to win this match because PSG beat AC Milan with a score of 3-0 in the first leg of course they have a strong mentality to repeat it again when playing at San Siro.
legendary
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November 05, 2023, 05:44:07 PM
Galatasaray got bad news about Muslera's injury. It is said that Muslera will be missing the first 6 games ahead. The Champions League games against Bayern Munich and Manchester United are also included in this. Their backup goalkeeper Gunay Guvenc isn't a credible goalkeeper compared to Muslera. Unlucky of him that his first game is even going to be against Bayern Munich.

Galatasaray really need Muslera in the remaining group games. Maybe it is very difficult to make difference against Bayern Munich in Germany. But he would definitely do so against the Red Devils. The fans will hope for Muslera not to miss that critical game at least.
hero member
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November 05, 2023, 05:35:09 PM
I think progressing to the next round of the UEFA Champions competition will be very difficult for Manchester United and that's because of the number of points they were able to get after three group stage matches. United has only secured three points from a possible 9 points and even of they beat Copenhagen again in the midweek, I think it'll be Bayern Munich and Galatasaray who will qualify from the group. Galatasaray's last two games will be against Manchester United in their home ground before traveling to Copenhagen for final game if the group stage.

Manchester United has 3 points right now and their next match is with Copenhagen. I am also wishing Manchester united to win the next match so they go above Galatasaray and that will be another great day for the club. It will be a show of life for the Manchester United to quickly go back to form even as second in the table standing so they can move to the next level of round of 16 with other big teams.

If Manchester United loses any point against Copenhagen everything is going to be over for them because Copenhagen is almost the weakest team in this group and the match against Copenhagen is a good chance for Manchester United to take some points in this game.
But for Ten Hag and Manchester United, there is not any hope in the Champions League in this season.  

To keep their hopes of making it out of the group  A of this season's UEFA Champions League, Manchester United must not drop points against Copenhagen or risk being ousted from the competition. Already I think it'll be very difficult for Manchester United to make it out of the group but dropping any point against Copenhagen will simply end their hopes of qualifying to the knockout stages.
hero member
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November 05, 2023, 05:25:31 PM
I think progressing to the next round of the UEFA Champions competition will be very difficult for Manchester United and that's because of the number of points they were able to get after three group stage matches. United has only secured three points from a possible 9 points and even of they beat Copenhagen again in the midweek, I think it'll be Bayern Munich and Galatasaray who will qualify from the group. Galatasaray's last two games will be against Manchester United in their home ground before traveling to Copenhagen for final game if the group stage.

Manchester United has 3 points right now and their next match is with Copenhagen. I am also wishing Manchester united to win the next match so they go above Galatasaray and that will be another great day for the club. It will be a show of life for the Manchester United to quickly go back to form even as second in the table standing so they can move to the next level of round of 16 with other big teams.

If Manchester United loses any point against Copenhagen everything is going to be over for them because Copenhagen is almost the weakest team in this group and the match against Copenhagen is a good chance for Manchester United to take some points in this game.
But for Ten Hag and Manchester United, there is not any hope in the Champions League in this season.  
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November 05, 2023, 04:09:35 PM
It is really true that the look of Milan is worrying in the Champions League. A team like them can't have this serious scoring problem here. I don't expect Milan to have a great achievement here two times in a row of course. It would be too much to ask from them. However they can do much better than this normally. Currently I only see a struggling Milan in the offense line. 0 goals in 3 matches is just too bad. Can they score against PSG? I hope so to gain some confidence.

PSG are more vulnerable in away matches here. We saw what Newcastle did to them. Let's see if Milan manage to steal some points.

Steal points from PSG? It's football though, anything can happen in between. Milan could end up winning the game and same goes with PSG. My best prediction would be on Luis Enrique and his side to take all three points, failure to do so puts either of who wins between Newcastle and Borrussia Dortmund. Honestly, I would want to see Newcastle win. We've seen too much of Dortmund can we see something else entirely?

In the Seria A, they have have accumulated four points in the last four games for Milan. A win and a draw for a big side who won the league few years back ( Two )
Copenhagen versus Manchester United! I'll go for first half under 1.5 goals and or a first half draw.
hero member
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November 05, 2023, 04:04:53 PM
It is really true that the look of Milan is worrying in the Champions League. A team like them can't have this serious scoring problem here. I don't expect Milan to have a great achievement here two times in a row of course. It would be too much to ask from them. However they can do much better than this normally. Currently I only see a struggling Milan in the offense line. 0 goals in 3 matches is just too bad. Can they score against PSG? I hope so to gain some confidence.

PSG are more vulnerable in away matches here. We saw what Newcastle did to them. Let's see if Milan manage to steal some points.
Group F is challenging and we have watched the top performance from elite teams, and it will take a miracle for the Nerazzurri to advance to the next round. AC Milan have not won any UCL football matches this season, their performances have been horrible and Stefano Pioli has done little in terms of helping the club return back to winning shape. I can't see why I placed an excessive amount of attention on comprehending the complete team scenario, yet  they're not showing signs as team that would bounce back and make good results.
sr. member
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November 05, 2023, 03:30:11 PM
It is really true that the look of Milan is worrying in the Champions League. A team like them can't have this serious scoring problem here. I don't expect Milan to have a great achievement here two times in a row of course. It would be too much to ask from them. However they can do much better than this normally. Currently I only see a struggling Milan in the offense line. 0 goals in 3 matches is just too bad. Can they score against PSG? I hope so to gain some confidence.

PSG are more vulnerable in away matches here. We saw what Newcastle did to them. Let's see if Milan manage to steal some points.
legendary
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November 05, 2023, 03:23:58 PM
AC Milan's performance this season in the UEFA Champions League competition has been poor and way below what we saw from the what we saw from the last season's semi finalists. They have been able to pick up just two points from their first three games in the competition abd from all the indications, I don't think they can make it out of the group  because they'll have to win their remaining three matches in the group stage to stand a chance of progressing to the knockout stages which I think is very unlikely to happen.
They play against Paris Saint Germaine at the San Siro on Tuesday and any result other than a win I think will bury any hope of making it out of the group

In the last 4 matches in different events, Milan was not even able to get full points. Milan's performance is really unstable, especially in the Champions League. Honestly, I don't like the style used by Stefano Pioli for his squad. btw, I'm just referring to their match in the Champions League. because I didn't follow his progress in Serie A. Last season and this season, there were no changes to the playing patterns implemented by the coach. except, some newcomers.
IMO, Stefano Pioli should learn a lot to change his patterns, systems and strategies. even though in reality, AC Milan's squad depth is not as bad as its performance.

In the next two days, Milan will host Paris Saint-Germain at the San Siro, Milan's headquarters. even though Milan plays at their own headquarters, PSG is the one that is superior to the bookie. Milan with @3.10, while PSG @2.23. This match has the potential to end in a draw. Moreover, if Milan falls when they host PSG on the fourth matchday of the Champions League group phase. Thus, their chances of getting to the next phase will be gone. In fact, we know very well that Milan did not even win any of their 3 matches in this group phase. Moreover, they have to overthrow PSG. For now, I will not assume or speculate. So, let's just wait for these two teams to meet.
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November 05, 2023, 02:43:07 PM
I guess the favorite will be Galatasaray!
They are now showing a truly beautiful game more than ever. No matter what, they go to the front. look at the game against Bayern. Didn't Galatasaray show skill! This is the same club that deserves the best. It has a perfect balance of defense and incredible attack! that's why they're doing so well! If I'm wrong, correct me!
We will see in the next match at the Allianz Arena, whether Galatasaray is able to beat Bayern Munich to strengthen its position in second place in the standings, because if Galatasaray loses and Manchester United is able to win at home to Copenhagen, it will create greater pressure on Galatasaray's side because Manchester United also still has a chance to qualify if they are able to win the three remaining matches in the Champions League group phase.
After such a useless game from Manchester United, I’m just wildly disappointed.
I firmly believed until the end that the Reds would be able to score, but alas...
Now my eyes are focused on Galatasaray. A club that is rapidly moving forward. and can show a beautiful gam
hero member
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November 05, 2023, 01:53:53 PM
That makes a lot of sense because leaving aside the interest of the club to make it to the next stage of the Champions League not least for financial reasons, the question is what and how would they do in the next round? If they survive this group stage, which would already be surprising, I think nobody believes that they can increase their performance level by so much that they are suddenly competitive enough to challenge the top two or three teams of the other leagues. As you said, they are not ready for the Champions League by any means.
It wouldn't be really surprising if Manchester united gets pass the group stage of the champions league considering they have 3points already and three more games ahead, if they win two and draw one they could comfortably qualify for the next round of the UCL.

Galatasaray who happens to be at the second position in their group is ahead of Manchester united by one point so it's still very much possible they qualify especially if they win their next meeting with Copenhagen and Galatasaray then draw Munich or possibly win which is very unlikely but then they can't be underestimated regardless of their current form they may possibly improve just before then and it's possible if they get pass the group stage it will be enough boost for their mind to scale through the next round as they will be very much aware of what is ahead, in football anything can always happen it's the game of possibilities.

Ok you describe this as if it should be easy for them to not lose any of the games and even more, win two of the games and tie one. But let's get down to business then and see what their chances are.

What is the chance that Manchester United will beat Galatasaray in Turkey in their home stadium with these crazy fans? I think the chances are 35% at best to win that game. Maybe they tie the game, but that is not enough since they lost the first leg and this could be decisive.

Against Copenhagen it is going to be hard because it is again a game away from Old Trafford. The Copenhagen team is no amateur group. They play hard and physical football and winning against them is tough. But we can assume Manchester United wins it.

The last game against Bayern Munich. Needless to say that it is difficult to predict because Bayern Munich has probably qualified for the next round and might play with their second best formation, but still.

If anything, it will be a tight fight.
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November 05, 2023, 01:31:41 PM
Did you know, basically Milan is the only team in Group F that so far has not had any wins at all. Therefore, it is clear that Milan in the Champions League does not have a good chance of qualifying because after all, group F is the hell group in the Champions League this season. Moreover, basically Milan is a team that finds it difficult to be consistent every season. Even though Milan is in the top zone of the Serie A standings, but Milan can still fail when playing against mediocre teams. So yes, it is not surprising that Milan has no chance of qualifying for the last 16 in the Champions League and also, to finish in third place is still difficult for Milan.

If you check the table of this group well, you’ll see that conclusion cannot just be made yet on who will make it to the round of 16 in that group. They have all played three matches and only Milan have failed to get a point amongst the group, but that does not mean we can rule them out just yet. They still have 3 more matches to play in this group stage and we all know that Milan is now a team that is very weak when compared to the rest of the teams in that group. Their failure to earn any point can just be for some circumstances unknown to them also which happens in football. I have not yet concluded or rule out any team yet that are going to make it to the final 16 of the champions league from this group yet. We will await how the second leg matches of this group will turn out, before we can begin to draw conclusions on which team will qualify to the next round or not.

It's obvious that they had a good season last year in order to be in UCL but this year they are not good enough to be in the UCL at all. I mean looking at the results right now, we are easily capable of saying it would require a big miracle for them to be in the top four at the end of this season, so when you think about it, only the teams who are UCL levels for two years in a row has a chance, because not only they were good enough to participate thanks to results of one year, they were good enough to join again a year later when they are on UCL as well.

You have a point in what you’re saying because Manchester United were not playing in the champions league last season and only got to qualify this season because of their good performance last season. For them to remain here the following season, they need to improve in their game both in the domestic league and champions league they are currently playing in now. I won’t be surprised if I don’t see them even making it out of the group stage in the UCL, their performance is not something to hopeful for them for.
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