Ukrainian local board - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

konovalets

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Quote from: deisik on October 07, 2016, 04:26:28 AM

Should I assume that the next thing you are going to say would be a claim that English and Irish on one side and Polish on the other are mutually intelligible? This is what follows from your words.

No, it doesn't. My point is that these things (language affinity and country of work migration) do not depend on each other. So all your next considerations are wrong.

Quote from: deisik on October 07, 2016, 04:26:28 AM

When I say that Ukrainians perfectly well understand Russian (and this is one of the reasons why the Ukrainian board is not a priority)

This is wrong too. Even if a lot of Ukrainians understand Russian it doesn't mean that Ukrainian board is not a priority. It's obvious, isn't it?

Quote from: deisik on October 07, 2016, 04:26:28 AM

, you start claiming that it is not so, and that Ukrainian is closer to Polish than to Russian. If you're okay with that, I see no reason why you should have any problem posting in the Polish thread then...

But I didn't see even a single post of yours there, while your buddy is actively posting in the Russian board at that

Please read carefully, I've never claimed such thing in this topic.

deisik

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Quote from: konovalets on October 07, 2016, 03:31:50 AM

Quote from: deisik on October 06, 2016, 03:42:18 AM

Quote from: konovalets on October 06, 2016, 03:13:53 AM

Sorry man, but it's not about language affinity. It's about visas and work permits. It was much easier to get work permit in Russia than in EU for Ukrainians and it still does. But last two years things started to change, Poland gave about 1 million work permits to Ukrainians in 2015. So, no pain

Then more power to you. The Polish board is already available, so, I assume, you can safely start posting there, all the while the Ukrainian board is not a priority. That would be quite logical, since Ukrainian is closer to Polish than to Russian, right? You might even want to substitute Roman letters for Cyrillic script to get even closer than that...

Personally, I would be happy to see you and your buddy posting in that board

Sorry man, but your logic is very weak. There are around 2 million polacks in UK and Ireland, but Polish board is here. Think about it when you will have some time.

Should I assume that the next thing you are going to say would be a claim that English and Irish on one side and Polish on the other are mutually intelligible? This is what follows from your words. But since the Polish board is already present here as you yourself seem to confirm, we can safely assume that this not the case. On the other hand, you yourself said that a lot of Ukrainians working in Russia today is due to the ease of getting worker visas, and not because of the similarities between the two languages, right? In this way, you have essentially stuck yourself between the upper and the nether millstone. When I say that Ukrainians understand Russian perfectly (and this is one of the reasons why the Ukrainian board is not a priority), you start claiming that it is not so, and that Ukrainian is closer to Polish than to Russian. If you're okay with that, I see no reason why you should have any problem posting in the Polish thread then...

But I didn't see even a single post of yours there, while your buddy is actively posting in the Russian board at that

konovalets

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Quote from: deisik on October 06, 2016, 03:42:18 AM

Quote from: konovalets on October 06, 2016, 03:13:53 AM

Sorry man, but it's not about language affinity. It's about visas and work permits. It was much easier to get work permit in Russia than in EU for Ukrainians and it still does. But last two years things started to change, Poland gave about 1 million work permits to Ukrainians in 2015. So, no pain

Then more power to you. The Polish board is already available, so, I assume, you can safely start posting there, all the while the Ukrainian board is not a priority. That would be quite logical, since Ukrainian is closer to Polish than to Russian, right? You might even want to substitute Roman letters for Cyrillic script to get even closer than that...

Personally, I would be happy to see you and your buddy posting in that board

Sorry man, but your logic is very weak. There are around 2 million polacks in UK and Ireland, but Polish board is here. Think about it when you will have some time.

deisik

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Quote from: konovalets on October 06, 2016, 03:13:53 AM

Sorry man, but it's not about language affinity. It's about visas and work permits. It was much easier to get work permit in Russia than in EU for Ukrainians and it still does. But last two years things started to change, Poland gave about 1 million work permits to Ukrainians in 2015. So, no pain

Then more power to you. The Polish board is already available, so, I assume, you can safely start posting there, all the while the Ukrainian board is not a priority. That would be quite logical, since Ukrainian is closer to Polish than to Russian, right? You might even want to substitute Roman letters for Cyrillic script to get even closer than that...

Personally, I would be happy to see you and your buddy posting in that board

konovalets

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Quote from: deisik on October 04, 2016, 08:33:41 AM

Quote from: akhavr on October 04, 2016, 01:53:20 AM

Quote from: deisik on October 03, 2016, 06:43:53 AM

Some go the EU countries, but the majority are still heading to Russia,

False.

You have to reconcile yourself with the facts, dude. I guess this paper published in June 2013 and financed by the EU (just in case) will cause a lot of pain down your ass. I don't know more recent data. On the other hand, I didn't make a thorough search either. But I don't think that figures did change much since then:

Sorry man, but it's not about language affinity. It's about visas and work permits. It was much easier to get work permit in Russia than in EU for Ukrainians and it still does. But last two years things started to change, Poland gave about 1 million work permits to Ukrainians in 2015. So, no pain.

But it doesn't matter in this thread. You can learn whatever language you want, don't tell other people what to do.

Gimpeline

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Quote from: akhavr on September 28, 2016, 02:08:34 AM

Quote from: Gimpeline on September 27, 2016, 12:03:00 PM

since everyone understand English

Not the case for Ukraine.

And hate speech from Russian-speaking people just confirm the need for the Ukrainian local board, since **every** thread with Russians and Ukrainians will explode in flames, even on Meta subforum.

Just check few posts above, saying that there's no point in speaking Ukrainian, since everything will be Russia soon.

To be honest I think that BS.
I live in Germany half of the year.
many of them had Russian in school instead of English
Are you telling me that Ukraina have no second language in school?

Edit. Dont start threads with I'm from Ukraina and proud of it.. And you will be fine. No one will ever know you are from Ukraina

electronicash

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I remember we Filipinos suggested to have our own section as well and it took almost a year before we've been approved. Maybe when they saw that our thread shows up every minute and so they figure there are lots of us here in the forum already.

deisik

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Quote from: akhavr on October 04, 2016, 01:53:20 AM

Quote from: deisik on October 03, 2016, 06:43:53 AM

Some go the EU countries, but the majority are still heading to Russia,

False.

You have to reconcile yourself with the facts, dude. I guess this paper published in June 2013 and financed by the EU (just in case) will cause a lot of pain down your ass. I don't know more recent data. On the other hand, I didn't make a thorough search either. But I don't think that figures did change much since then:

I've heard that a lot of young men have been hiding in Russia since conscription "waves" started in 2014

Quote from: akhavr on October 04, 2016, 01:53:20 AM

Quote from: deisik on October 03, 2016, 06:43:53 AM

not least due to the linguistic affinity between the languages, whether you like it or not.

"The linguistic affinity" between Polish and Ukrainian is much larger than between Ukrainian and Russian. Whether you like it or not

I would find it rather strange that a language from one regional subgroup (i.e. East Slavic languages, including Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian) would have more in common with a language from another subgroup (i.e. West Slavic languages, including Polish and Slovak). In any case, the Polish board is already here, so you should have no problem posting there, right? But I didn't find even a single post of yours in that board and quite a lot in the Russian one, lol. Still wanna talk about mutual intelligibility between the languages, or lack thereof?

Quote from: akhavr on October 04, 2016, 01:53:20 AM

And, please, stop bringing politics into a meta-technical thread.

No one talks about politics here except you and your buddy

akhavr

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Quote from: deisik on October 03, 2016, 06:43:53 AM

Some go the EU countries, but the majority are still heading to Russia,

False.

Quote from: deisik on October 03, 2016, 06:43:53 AM

not least due to the linguistic affinity between the languages, whether you like it or not.

"The linguistic affinity" between Polish and Ukrainian is much larger than between Ukrainian and Russian. Whether you like it or not.

And, please, stop bringing politics into a meta-technical thread.

deisik

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Quote from: konovalets on September 27, 2016, 07:35:45 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 27, 2016, 07:15:10 AM

Even if they can't speak or at least understand Russian (which is highly dubious, to tell the truth, since Ukrainian is closer to Russian than London's cockney to the Queen's English), they should have started to learn it by now. Alternatively, they should have started learning Polish, English, German, whatever. Personally, I don't think that the Ukrainian board here would have a lot of popularity apart from a few committed Ukrainian nationalists. But that would be a total disgrace to the forum in particular and humanity in general...

No incitement of inter-ethnic discord has been intended when writing this post

Um, if you're talking about future then I believe it's a dumb move to learn Russian because Russia obviously become China within several next decades. So it's better to learn Chinese. But it doesn't matter in this topic. I hope moderators will take care about such irrelevant posts here.

Nope, I didn't mean anything along these lines, and I wasn't talking about the future, either. What I referred to follows from the fact that many working-age Ukrainians are leaving Ukraine in search of work. Some go the EU countries, but the majority are still heading to Russia, not least due to the linguistic affinity between the languages, whether you like it or not. Obviously, no one would be particularly interested in learning the Ukrainian language to communicate with migrant workers in any of these countries. That's why I said that learning the languages of the accepting countries is of vital necessity for many Ukrainians right now...

Just in case, I don't see many Belorussians here complaining about the lack of the Belorussian board (tbh, I have yet to see any)

akhavr

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Quote from: Gimpeline on September 27, 2016, 12:03:00 PM

since everyone understand English

Not the case for Ukraine.

And hate speech from Russian-speaking people just confirm the need for the Ukrainian local board, since **every** thread with Russians and Ukrainians will explode in flames, even on Meta subforum.

Just check few posts above, saying that there's no point in speaking Ukrainian, since everything will be Russia soon.

Gimpeline

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Quote from: akhavr on September 27, 2016, 01:44:37 AM

Quote from: Gimpeline on September 26, 2016, 02:08:32 PM

No point creating a special section for people that can use another if they want to. Politics is no reason what so ever

Sure, no point in having French section, since anyway, nearly all francophones can understand English, if they want to.

To be hones I agree. For example, I have never seen any reason for having my part of the world. Scandinavia as its own sub forum since everyone understand English

konovalets

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Quote from: deisik on September 27, 2016, 07:15:10 AM

Quote from: konovalets on September 27, 2016, 06:08:53 AM

Quote from: Gimpeline on September 26, 2016, 02:08:32 PM

Quote from: konovalets on September 23, 2016, 12:52:49 PM

Quote from: veleten on September 22, 2016, 12:15:57 AM

there is a simple explanation to this: 100% of ukrainians understand and can speak russian

It's not really true. About 30-35% of Ukrainians can't speak Russian on comfortable level. And it's about 15 millions of people. And as you mentioned above some people started to refuse to communicate in Russian because of the war. Yes, it's politically motivated but it's their right to do so.

Can't or won't?
No point creating a special section for people that can use another if they want to. Politics is no reason what so ever

Can't. If you go to the western part of Ukraine you will find out that 90% people don't speak russian and a lot of them don't understand it either. In central part it's 50/50. I think everybody understand but a lot of people use ukrainian in their daily life there. And even on the eastern part I know a lot of people use ukrainain instead of russian. If you're really interested in this I can give you couple of examples, but it's off-topic, you know

Even if they can't speak or at least understand Russian (which is highly dubious, to tell the truth, since Ukrainian is closer to Russian than London's cockney to the Queen's English), they should have started to learn it by now. Alternatively, they should have started learning Polish, English, German, whatever. Personally, I don't think that the Ukrainian board here would have a lot of popularity apart from a few committed Ukrainian nationalists. But that would be a total disgrace to the forum in particular and humanity in general...

No incitement of inter-ethnic discord has been intended when writing this post

Um, if you're talking about future then I believe it's a dumb move to learn Russian because Russia obviously become China within several next decades. So it's better to learn Chinese. But it doesn't matter in this topic. I hope moderators will take care about such irrelevant posts here.

deisik

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Quote from: konovalets on September 27, 2016, 06:08:53 AM

Quote from: Gimpeline on September 26, 2016, 02:08:32 PM

Quote from: konovalets on September 23, 2016, 12:52:49 PM

Quote from: veleten on September 22, 2016, 12:15:57 AM

there is a simple explanation to this: 100% of ukrainians understand and can speak russian

It's not really true. About 30-35% of Ukrainians can't speak Russian on comfortable level. And it's about 15 millions of people. And as you mentioned above some people started to refuse to communicate in Russian because of the war. Yes, it's politically motivated but it's their right to do so.

Can't or won't?
No point creating a special section for people that can use another if they want to. Politics is no reason what so ever

Can't. If you go to the western part of Ukraine you will find out that 90% people don't speak russian and a lot of them don't understand it either. In central part it's 50/50. I think everybody understand but a lot of people use ukrainian in their daily life there. And even on the eastern part I know a lot of people use ukrainain instead of russian. If you're really interested in this I can give you couple of examples, but it's off-topic, you know

Even if they can't speak or at least understand Russian (which is highly dubious, to tell the truth, since Ukrainian is closer to Russian than London's cockney to the Queen's English), they should have started to learn it by now. Alternatively, they should have started learning Polish, English, German, whatever. Personally, I don't think that the Ukrainian board here would have a lot of popularity apart from among a few committed Ukrainian nationalists (who would still end up using Russian between themselves). But that would be a total disgrace to the forum in particular and humanity in general...

No incitement of inter-ethnic discord has been intended when writing this post

konovalets

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Merit: 250

Quote from: Gimpeline on September 26, 2016, 02:08:32 PM

Quote from: konovalets on September 23, 2016, 12:52:49 PM

Quote from: veleten on September 22, 2016, 12:15:57 AM

there is a simple explanation to this: 100% of ukrainians understand and can speak russian

It's not really true. About 30-35% of Ukrainians can't speak Russian on comfortable level. And it's about 15 millions of people. And as you mentioned above some people started to refuse to communicate in Russian because of the war. Yes, it's politically motivated but it's their right to do so.

Can't or won't?
No point creating a special section for people that can use another if they want to. Politics is no reason what so ever

Can't. If you go to the western part of Ukraine you will find out that 90% people don't speak russian and a lot of them don't understand it either. In central part it's 50/50. I think everybody understand but a lot of people use ukrainian in their daily life there. And even on the eastern part I know a lot of people use ukrainain instead of russian. If you're really interested in this I can give you couple of examples, but it's off-topic, you know.

akhavr

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Quote from: Gimpeline on September 26, 2016, 02:08:32 PM

No point creating a special section for people that can use another if they want to. Politics is no reason what so ever

Sure, no point in having French section, since anyway, nearly all francophones can understand English, if they want to.

Gimpeline

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Quote from: konovalets on September 23, 2016, 12:52:49 PM

Quote from: veleten on September 22, 2016, 12:15:57 AM

there is a simple explanation to this: 100% of ukrainians understand and can speak russian

It's not really true. About 30-35% of Ukrainians can't speak Russian on comfortable level. And it's about 15 millions of people. And as you mentioned above some people started to refuse to communicate in Russian because of the war. Yes, it's politically motivated but it's their right to do so.

Can't or won't?
No point creating a special section for people that can use another if they want to. Politics is no reason what so ever

akhavr

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Merit: 100

:shrug: reported to mod

konovalets

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Quote from: veleten on September 22, 2016, 12:15:57 AM

there is a simple explanation to this: 100% of ukrainians understand and can speak russian

It's not really true. About 30-35% of Ukrainians can't speak Russian on comfortable level. And it's about 15 millions of people. And as you mentioned above some people started to refuse to communicate in Russian because of the war. Yes, it's politically motivated but it's their right to do so.

Johann.Gesell

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Hello! I represent one more cryptocommunity in Ukraine and we are also going to ask to create Ukrainian board, cause here we have currently real growth. Thx to moders. Wink

Topic: Ukrainian local board - page 2. (Read 5164 times)