Undocumented immigrants are civil, NOT CRIMINAL matters

Spendulus

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Quote from: wasserman99 on August 31, 2014, 01:34:45 AM

Quote from: countryfree on August 30, 2014, 10:57:40 AM

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 29, 2014, 04:19:53 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 25, 2014, 06:26:08 PM

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 24, 2014, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 23, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

I've been undocumented most of my life, nobody has ever told me I was a criminal.
I'm changing country quite often, and I guess it helps when I show my passport with lots of stamps. And if I'm working in countries where I don't have any right to work, I make it difficult to prove I'm working or that I'm earning money.

If you are working in a country where you do not have the right to work then you are not only breaking the law but are also robbing the rest of the hard working people of the country blind. You are creating more supply of a labor force then what there should be. You are not paying the same taxes that other hard working citizens in the country are.

This is correct, but I do not have the same rights. And I'm not costing anything to the taxpayers, as I don't have any right to health insurance nor a pension. All that while I do pay VAT or sales tax with anything I buy. I travel a lot, and I see that countries which offer the most to their citizens have the largest budget deficits. They're all failing, and their failure makes me happy. Anyway, I'm currently staying in a little country where there's no income tax. I don't have the right to work nor a residency permit, but I have no doubt I'm useful to that country, giving more than I receive. This is what really matters.

Let's forget the citizenship issues, and focus on this giving/receiving question. I suggest anyone receiving more than he gives be sent to forced labour. I'll remain free.

You are likely paying less in income taxes then what you should be paying. You probably aren't paying anything in income taxes. You are also consuming public resources (like local government services) that is provided to the people by the government.

I'm not using any local government service. Not at all.
A month ago, I was in a city where there was some fireworks, and I've watched. That's about it. Oh, well, I remember I've used a public bathroom a while ago. That's it, nothing else.

This is not the norm for illegals. The majority of illegal immigrants add to crime, creating a burden to the local police. If you have ever driven your car then you have contributed to wear and tear on the roads but have not paid your fair share in taxes to cover these costs. If you have children then they are using the school system of which you are not paying for via taxes.

No the majority do not. But the majority of prisoners in our state prison are illegals, virtually all Mexican.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 31, 2014, 01:34:45 AM

If you have ever driven your car then you have contributed to wear and tear on the roads but have not paid your fair share in taxes to cover these costs. If you have children then they are using the school system of which you are not paying for via taxes.

Gas is $8 a gallon where I am now! I believe that's much enough money to pay for my wear and tear of the roads. When it comes to that, I'm driving an old car and I would like to buy a new one. Happily, I can afford to buy one. I tried that last month. Buying a car means paying quite a lot in tax, and there's the cost to register it also, which is expensive too, but those a$$holes at the registration office, they told me that I couldn't register a car because I didn't have the rights documents... So I moved to another country, and I hope that next month I'll be in a country where there will let me register a car. This country will not get my money, too bad!

Regarding public schools, the teachers are so bad, sending kids there is like giving them a licence to fail their life.

wasserman99

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: countryfree on August 30, 2014, 10:57:40 AM

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 29, 2014, 04:19:53 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 25, 2014, 06:26:08 PM

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 24, 2014, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 23, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

I've been undocumented most of my life, nobody has ever told me I was a criminal.
I'm changing country quite often, and I guess it helps when I show my passport with lots of stamps. And if I'm working in countries where I don't have any right to work, I make it difficult to prove I'm working or that I'm earning money.

If you are working in a country where you do not have the right to work then you are not only breaking the law but are also robbing the rest of the hard working people of the country blind. You are creating more supply of a labor force then what there should be. You are not paying the same taxes that other hard working citizens in the country are.

This is correct, but I do not have the same rights. And I'm not costing anything to the taxpayers, as I don't have any right to health insurance nor a pension. All that while I do pay VAT or sales tax with anything I buy. I travel a lot, and I see that countries which offer the most to their citizens have the largest budget deficits. They're all failing, and their failure makes me happy. Anyway, I'm currently staying in a little country where there's no income tax. I don't have the right to work nor a residency permit, but I have no doubt I'm useful to that country, giving more than I receive. This is what really matters.

Let's forget the citizenship issues, and focus on this giving/receiving question. I suggest anyone receiving more than he gives be sent to forced labour. I'll remain free.

You are likely paying less in income taxes then what you should be paying. You probably aren't paying anything in income taxes. You are also consuming public resources (like local government services) that is provided to the people by the government.

I'm not using any local government service. Not at all.
A month ago, I was in a city where there was some fireworks, and I've watched. That's about it. Oh, well, I remember I've used a public bathroom a while ago. That's it, nothing else.

This is not the norm for illegals. The majority of illegal immigrants add to crime, creating a burden to the local police. If you have ever driven your car then you have contributed to wear and tear on the roads but have not paid your fair share in taxes to cover these costs. If you have children then they are using the school system of which you are not paying for via taxes.

countryfree

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 1047

Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 29, 2014, 04:19:53 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 25, 2014, 06:26:08 PM

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 24, 2014, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 23, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

I've been undocumented most of my life, nobody has ever told me I was a criminal.
I'm changing country quite often, and I guess it helps when I show my passport with lots of stamps. And if I'm working in countries where I don't have any right to work, I make it difficult to prove I'm working or that I'm earning money.

If you are working in a country where you do not have the right to work then you are not only breaking the law but are also robbing the rest of the hard working people of the country blind. You are creating more supply of a labor force then what there should be. You are not paying the same taxes that other hard working citizens in the country are.

This is correct, but I do not have the same rights. And I'm not costing anything to the taxpayers, as I don't have any right to health insurance nor a pension. All that while I do pay VAT or sales tax with anything I buy. I travel a lot, and I see that countries which offer the most to their citizens have the largest budget deficits. They're all failing, and their failure makes me happy. Anyway, I'm currently staying in a little country where there's no income tax. I don't have the right to work nor a residency permit, but I have no doubt I'm useful to that country, giving more than I receive. This is what really matters.

Let's forget the citizenship issues, and focus on this giving/receiving question. I suggest anyone receiving more than he gives be sent to forced labour. I'll remain free.

You are likely paying less in income taxes then what you should be paying. You probably aren't paying anything in income taxes. You are also consuming public resources (like local government services) that is provided to the people by the government.

I'm not using any local government service. Not at all.
A month ago, I was in a city where there was some fireworks, and I've watched. That's about it. Oh, well, I remember I've used a public bathroom a while ago. That's it, nothing else.

itsAj

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: Spendulus on August 23, 2014, 07:08:40 PM

Quote from: umair127 on August 23, 2014, 06:28:27 AM

if you are caught in the process of crossing the border, yes, a criminal charge may be filed against you for that act.

when the illegal immigrants fail to appear in court to deport them, it is for being in the US without documents. and it's a civil matter.

You mean criminals break civil laws too?

Gee. I never would have guessed.

There are not actually any civil laws (only torts against others). But this is not the point. The only people who are guaranteed the protections that the constitution guarantees are US citizens. If you are not a citizen then the constitution does not protect you, period.

wasserman99

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: countryfree on August 25, 2014, 06:26:08 PM

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 24, 2014, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 23, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

I've been undocumented most of my life, nobody has ever told me I was a criminal.
I'm changing country quite often, and I guess it helps when I show my passport with lots of stamps. And if I'm working in countries where I don't have any right to work, I make it difficult to prove I'm working or that I'm earning money.

If you are working in a country where you do not have the right to work then you are not only breaking the law but are also robbing the rest of the hard working people of the country blind. You are creating more supply of a labor force then what there should be. You are not paying the same taxes that other hard working citizens in the country are.

This is correct, but I do not have the same rights. And I'm not costing anything to the taxpayers, as I don't have any right to health insurance nor a pension. All that while I do pay VAT or sales tax with anything I buy. I travel a lot, and I see that countries which offer the most to their citizens have the largest budget deficits. They're all failing, and their failure makes me happy. Anyway, I'm currently staying in a little country where there's no income tax. I don't have the right to work nor a residency permit, but I have no doubt I'm useful to that country, giving more than I receive. This is what really matters.

Let's forget the citizenship issues, and focus on this giving/receiving question. I suggest anyone receiving more than he gives be sent to forced labour. I'll remain free.

You are likely paying less in income taxes then what you should be paying. You probably aren't paying anything in income taxes. You are also consuming public resources (like local government services) that is provided to the people by the government.

countryfree

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 1047

Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: wasserman99 on August 24, 2014, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 23, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

I've been undocumented most of my life, nobody has ever told me I was a criminal.
I'm changing country quite often, and I guess it helps when I show my passport with lots of stamps. And if I'm working in countries where I don't have any right to work, I make it difficult to prove I'm working or that I'm earning money.

If you are working in a country where you do not have the right to work then you are not only breaking the law but are also robbing the rest of the hard working people of the country blind. You are creating more supply of a labor force then what there should be. You are not paying the same taxes that other hard working citizens in the country are.

This is correct, but I do not have the same rights. And I'm not costing anything to the taxpayers, as I don't have any right to health insurance nor a pension. All that while I do pay VAT or sales tax with anything I buy. I travel a lot, and I see that countries which offer the most to their citizens have the largest budget deficits. They're all failing, and their failure makes me happy. Anyway, I'm currently staying in a little country where there's no income tax. I don't have the right to work nor a residency permit, but I have no doubt I'm useful to that country, giving more than I receive. This is what really matters.

Let's forget the citizenship issues, and focus on this giving/receiving question. I suggest anyone receiving more than he gives be sent to forced labour. I'll remain free.

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1386

Quote from: Full Spectrum on August 23, 2014, 10:05:26 PM

Quote from: Rigon on August 23, 2014, 07:56:09 AM

....
Actually I'm brilliant. I just find it a waste of my keystrokes trying to debate any subject with entrenched Liberals. You call that trolling. I call that genius.

Which Liberals are we talking about? Market Liberals, Social Liberals, Classical Liberals, or Neoliberals? BTW most people on this forum are at least 2 of those. Or are we talking about Social Democrats?

No, look at what he wrote. It's the Entrenched Liberals, those are the ones. The ones in the trenches.

DhaniBoy

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

It's depend on the rules of that country, if the rules prohibit the immigrants to enter the country without permission, so it's must be a criminal matters
but otherwise it's just an undocumented immigrants, hopefully the US government can figure out this problem, into win win solution ...

wasserman99

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: countryfree on August 23, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

I've been undocumented most of my life, nobody has ever told me I was a criminal.
I'm changing country quite often, and I guess it helps when I show my passport with lots of stamps. And if I'm working in countries where I don't have any right to work, I make it difficult to prove I'm working or that I'm earning money.

If you are working in a country where you do not have the right to work then you are not only breaking the law but are also robbing the rest of the hard working people of the country blind. You are creating more supply of a labor force then what there should be. You are not paying the same taxes that other hard working citizens in the country are. IMO anyone that is not a citizen of a country and who is not able to prove their right to work/reside in the country but is working/residing in such country should be deported immediately.

Full Spectrum

member

Activity: 62

Merit: 10

Quote from: Rigon on August 23, 2014, 07:56:09 AM

Quote from: umair127 on August 23, 2014, 07:54:00 AM

Quote from: Rigon on August 23, 2014, 07:50:02 AM

In this country, you're innocent until proven guilty fella. I've been accused of being several people since joining. Those accusations have been checked, and dispelled.

You need to become a free thinker, and stop following the ramblings of your fellow lunatics on here.

You've never shown any interest in actually discussing a subject in any detail.

If it makes you feel better I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. You're either a troll or incredibly insecure about the strength of your "convictions".

Actually I'm brilliant. I just find it a waste of my keystrokes trying to debate any subject with entrenched Liberals. You call that trolling. I call that genius.

Which Liberals are we talking about? Market Liberals, Social Liberals, Classical Liberals, or Neoliberals? BTW most people on this forum are at least 2 of those. Or are we talking about Social Democrats?

itsAj

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: umair127 on August 23, 2014, 07:32:49 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 23, 2014, 06:40:08 AM

It doesn't matter to me which court is used to deport illegals as long as it happens. 55% of illegals hopped the border. They are criminals. As for those that entered legally and did not leave when they were supposed to - if this act was premeditated then they are criminals.
That makes it accurate to call the vast majority of illegal aliens criminals.

so the bottom line is, they dont get to enjoy the full due process afforded to criminals. However they should stopped being regarded as such.
remember that for your next debate on the matter. having your opponent correct you on that could be embarrassing and make your argument sound stupid

I don't think they need the same due process that criminals enjoy. The question of is someone in this country here legally is very cut and dry. You either have authorization to be in the country or you don't. There are no witnesses or anything like that. Also if I understand correctly the US government has the right to revoke a green card from an immigrant for any reason so as long as a person is not a US citizen the effect of an illegal immigrant getting deported without due process would essentially be the same thing as them getting their green card revoked.

Honeypot

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: umair127 on August 23, 2014, 06:28:27 AM

if you are caught in the process of crossing the border, yes, a criminal charge may be filed against you for that act.

when the illegal immigrants fail to appear in court to deport them, it is for being in the US without documents. and it's a civil matter.

What is this claptrap? Last time I checked, illegal entry into a country is a criminal offense. Start bitching about 'but native americans' as if you ever cared except them giving you a half baked excuse to bitch.

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1386

Quote from: umair127 on August 23, 2014, 06:28:27 AM

if you are caught in the process of crossing the border, yes, a criminal charge may be filed against you for that act.

when the illegal immigrants fail to appear in court to deport them, it is for being in the US without documents. and it's a civil matter.

You mean criminals break civil laws too?

Gee. I never would have guessed.

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1386

Quote from: countryfree on August 23, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

I've been undocumented most of my life, nobody has ever told me I was a criminal.
I'm changing country quite often, and I guess it helps when I show my passport with lots of stamps. And if I'm working in countries where I don't have any right to work, I make it difficult to prove I'm working or that I'm earning money.

Oh, you have a passport?

Illegal Mexicans never have passports.

countryfree

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 1047

Your country may be your worst enemy

I've been undocumented most of my life, nobody has ever told me I was a criminal.
I'm changing country quite often, and I guess it helps when I show my passport with lots of stamps. And if I'm working in countries where I don't have any right to work, I make it difficult to prove I'm working or that I'm earning money.

umair127

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: Rigon on August 23, 2014, 07:56:09 AM

Quote from: umair127 on August 23, 2014, 07:54:00 AM

Quote from: Rigon on August 23, 2014, 07:50:02 AM

In this country, you're innocent until proven guilty fella. I've been accused of being several people since joining. Those accusations have been checked, and dispelled.

You need to become a free thinker, and stop following the ramblings of your fellow lunatics on here.

You've never shown any interest in actually discussing a subject in any detail.

If it makes you feel better I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. You're either a troll or incredibly insecure about the strength of your "convictions".

Actually I'm brilliant. I just find it a waste of my keystrokes trying to debate any subject with entrenched Liberals. You call that trolling. I call that genius.

That's a pretty basic contradiction you just posted. You find this place too much of a waste of time for you to spend time typing things, and yet you've made hundred of posts and stick around anyway. Which means you either don't value yourself at all and have fairly low self esteem, or you having nothing else worth doing in your life beside wasting your time.

Rigon

sr. member

Activity: 994

Merit: 441

Quote from: umair127 on August 23, 2014, 07:54:00 AM

Quote from: Rigon on August 23, 2014, 07:50:02 AM

In this country, you're innocent until proven guilty fella. I've been accused of being several people since joining. Those accusations have been checked, and dispelled.

You need to become a free thinker, and stop following the ramblings of your fellow lunatics on here.

You've never shown any interest in actually discussing a subject in any detail.

If it makes you feel better I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. You're either a troll or incredibly insecure about the strength of your "convictions".

Actually I'm brilliant. I just find it a waste of my keystrokes trying to debate any subject with entrenched Liberals. You call that trolling. I call that genius.

umair127

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: Rigon on August 23, 2014, 07:50:02 AM

In this country, you're innocent until proven guilty fella. I've been accused of being several people since joining. Those accusations have been checked, and dispelled.

You need to become a free thinker, and stop following the ramblings of your fellow lunatics on here.

You've never shown any interest in actually discussing a subject in any detail.

If it makes you feel better I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. You're either a troll or incredibly insecure about the strength of your "convictions".

Rigon

sr. member

Activity: 994

Merit: 441

In this country, you're innocent until proven guilty fella. I've been accused of being several people since joining. Those accusations have been checked, and dispelled.

You need to become a free thinker, and stop following the ramblings of your fellow lunatics on here.

Topic: Undocumented immigrants are civil, NOT CRIMINAL matters (Read 1644 times)