Trade SgtMoth only: .25 Btc for 20 Uno
I think getting the ball rolling is important. So, as an initial gesture (which presupposes that SgtMoth hasn't been spinning us an elaborate yarn), IMZ offers .25 Btc for 20 Uno.
Why offer well over 10% premium?
Well, if we believe our own rhetoric, 1 Future Uno is worth a great deal more this. Perhaps some people are snickering at IndiaMikeZulu's 'naivete' -- but we expect Un-Ex to be a powerhouse. There are no free lunches, and IndiaMikeZulu has long wanted to establish relations with miners.
m
Topic: Unobtanium In-House Exchange - page 48. (Read 104923 times)
@sgtmoth, list your UNO on the Un-Ex Trade Tracker sheet (link in my sig) and a Trusted Trader will make an offer to buy.
With regards to proof of mining, why not just have the miners paste their mining address (the one their pool or mining setup transfers their Uno into)? As long as their Un-Ex transaction sending address matches this mining address, that'd be sufficient for verification purposes (until I can write a more automated check for this - I'm sure it can be done with data from the block chain somehow. Will think on it).
With regards to proof of mining, why not just have the miners paste their mining address (the one their pool or mining setup transfers their Uno into)? As long as their Un-Ex transaction sending address matches this mining address, that'd be sufficient for verification purposes (until I can write a more automated check for this - I'm sure it can be done with data from the block chain somehow. Will think on it).
Good input, B.
Thinking, thinking
Thinking, thinking
Hmm, actually proving each little piece of UNO as 'newly minted' might be super-tough, since they would be tens or hundreds of fragments, perhaps, and run through the mining pools's wallets. I'm clueless, then.
Anyway:
1. Figure out how to prove they are 'newly minted'!
2. Come up with an agreed-upon format for buyer's offers, miner's offers, and payment assurance best practices (TT's and/or escrow.)
Anyway:
1. Figure out how to prove they are 'newly minted'!
2. Come up with an agreed-upon format for buyer's offers, miner's offers, and payment assurance best practices (TT's and/or escrow.)
I am not in charge. 
JIMHO.
Some thoughts on paying miners a premium.
I could be wrong, especially if it could be automated and not twerked - maybe with a week+ moving average, etc., but it seems, especially for now, that the payees determine the price and offer to the miners. I mean that bidders paying a premium should make the market quote at the time they make their offer, and don't play swings, either. This should be consistent, almost like, 'Ok, I'll post a new offer @ 10 AM each day.' but this last part about 'consistency' is asking for too much, I'm sure. Just wishing to be as fair as possible all around.
Anyway, just to get things started, I could offer 0.2 BTC to pay for freshly minted coinage with 6% premium over average fair market value, which is, for example, 0.0090 at this moment. My offer is available, but I want it to be part of an agreed-upon format. It will not be available after 11 PM on Wednesday, PST.
Now, how do we check that the coinage is freshly-minted? I'm not totally sure, but surely we can look at the rockchain (blockchain). (Maybe just work with miners we are familiar with? Not the best way to go about it for fairness and motivation, though.)
The miners should definitely have the burden of proof to provide a link to the rockchain data, and should definitely send first. Perhaps only TT's should be involved, to best assure the miners get their BTC? We could even have a designated escrow to allow anyone in on this new project who wants to support this groundbreaking idea for the best inflation-killing crypto EVAR!
Well, those are my thoughts.
JIMHO.
Some thoughts on paying miners a premium.
I could be wrong, especially if it could be automated and not twerked - maybe with a week+ moving average, etc., but it seems, especially for now, that the payees determine the price and offer to the miners. I mean that bidders paying a premium should make the market quote at the time they make their offer, and don't play swings, either. This should be consistent, almost like, 'Ok, I'll post a new offer @ 10 AM each day.' but this last part about 'consistency' is asking for too much, I'm sure. Just wishing to be as fair as possible all around.
Anyway, just to get things started, I could offer 0.2 BTC to pay for freshly minted coinage with 6% premium over average fair market value, which is, for example, 0.0090 at this moment. My offer is available, but I want it to be part of an agreed-upon format. It will not be available after 11 PM on Wednesday, PST.
Now, how do we check that the coinage is freshly-minted? I'm not totally sure, but surely we can look at the rockchain (blockchain). (Maybe just work with miners we are familiar with? Not the best way to go about it for fairness and motivation, though.)
The miners should definitely have the burden of proof to provide a link to the rockchain data, and should definitely send first. Perhaps only TT's should be involved, to best assure the miners get their BTC? We could even have a designated escrow to allow anyone in on this new project who wants to support this groundbreaking idea for the best inflation-killing crypto EVAR!
Well, those are my thoughts.
I have 49.33244004 in my wallet. 11 were originally mined in the beginning and 15 are new. It doesnt matter to me what you call it or what you pay for it. Anyone can make me an offer in btc. Ill leave this offer on the table for awhile and see how it goes.
what price are looking for?
I have 49.33244004 in my wallet. 11 were originally mined in the beginning and 15 are new. It doesnt matter to me what you call it or what you pay for it. Anyone can make me an offer in btc. Ill leave this offer on the table for awhile and see how it goes.
I have 30 uno that I can put on the market, half are freshly minted!
You might like to be our first experimental miner sale: list the 15 UNO on the Un-Ex as a miner (use #1058 as your Un-Ex post number in the first field).
We're working right now on a way to conveniently identify/confirm the legitimacy of newly-minted UNO for sale that is listed here, so that the 10% premium isn't abused by non-miners. The best idea I've got currently is for a miner to list their UNO mining address so that receipt of newly-mined UNO can be verified on the block chain explorer. This is very much a work in progress but if you want to list those 15 new UNO on the Un-Ex, I'm sure it'll be snapped up quick.
(If all 30 were mined, by all means list the 30. If not, you are absolutely welcome to list the other 15 as well, just not at the premium. ...well, you can ASK the premium but you may not *get* it :p)
Like you, I'm now off to bed, but please feel free to add your details to the Un-Ex sheet. Your trade is very welcome here. Thanks
Im working nights right now, bed time soon, Im off wednesday morning. I work 7on,7off...hehehe!
I have 30 uno that I can put on the market, half are freshly minted!
One: all looks good. Consider modifying text for liquidity engine blurb, it may be unclear to the uninitiated. Suggestion:
Add my name to that list (it follows from what we explored in an earlier conversation, Mark) - the strength of the Un-Ex is in its P2P nature while technical design for up-scaling size/throughput will require a degree of automation. This is what my last two posts here have been about - excellent.
I will experimentally update the spreadsheet as soon as I can and we can review, refine, remove or reinvent as necessary. Getting things working and then improved while we're in a simple spreadsheet is extremely helpful as we work towards shaping a multifaceted website.
Keep up the great work!
B.N. and Ian and I find ourselves in agreement on a simple (interim) principle: Un-Ex's un-hackability comes from being P2P. How far can we automate Un-Ex (The Mall ultimately)? As far as we can in a P2P framework.
Add my name to that list (it follows from what we explored in an earlier conversation, Mark) - the strength of the Un-Ex is in its P2P nature while technical design for up-scaling size/throughput will require a degree of automation. This is what my last two posts here have been about - excellent.
I will experimentally update the spreadsheet as soon as I can and we can review, refine, remove or reinvent as necessary. Getting things working and then improved while we're in a simple spreadsheet is extremely helpful as we work towards shaping a multifaceted website.
Keep up the great work!
One: have updated the OP. Still ascetic -- a number of functions (shadow, font size) just don't work on my computer!?
Two: I've found silver prices consistent. The $ value I've been taking from Coinmarketcap. So, 1 oz silver = $16.50. Thus 2 = 3300 cents. Divide 3300 by the number of cents in one Uno = 1 DVC
Quite happy to update this equation.
Three: the premium on newly-mined Unobtanium? I listed 5-10% Interimly, I will pay 10% -- at least until merged-mining is in place. Indeed, if I could get a steady trickle of coin, I would continue to do it with an Australian miner -- a host of long-term benefits there!
Today's Big-Picture Thought:
B.N. and Ian and I find ourselves in agreement on a simple (interim) principle: Un-Ex's un-hackability comes from being P2P. How far can we automate Un-Ex (The Mall ultimately)? As far as we can in a P2P framework.
MM, go
m
Two: I've found silver prices consistent. The $ value I've been taking from Coinmarketcap. So, 1 oz silver = $16.50. Thus 2 = 3300 cents. Divide 3300 by the number of cents in one Uno = 1 DVC
Quite happy to update this equation.
Three: the premium on newly-mined Unobtanium? I listed 5-10% Interimly, I will pay 10% -- at least until merged-mining is in place. Indeed, if I could get a steady trickle of coin, I would continue to do it with an Australian miner -- a host of long-term benefits there!
Today's Big-Picture Thought:
B.N. and Ian and I find ourselves in agreement on a simple (interim) principle: Un-Ex's un-hackability comes from being P2P. How far can we automate Un-Ex (The Mall ultimately)? As far as we can in a P2P framework.
MM, go
m
I really liked prominerone's idea in the main UNO thread which helped direct my recent thoughts on Un-Ex development: The Un-Ex pays a premium for newly-minted UNO (over the going price on exchanges), so miners save on paying the exchange tax when selling directly on the Un-Ex.
My Un-Ex Trade Tracker spreadsheet uses Cryptonator's API to determine the current UNO/BTC rate. Could people please weigh in on what percentage they're willing to pay on an ongoing basis on top of the going rate? If we agree on paying a 5% premium, for example, the UNO miner looking to sell their newly-minted UNO could 1) save on paying exchange fees and 2) get more BTC/LTC/DOGE/whatever else for their UNO.
I propose that the next iteration of the trade tracker (coming in the next few days as I have time - am unavailable so am not yet sure on timing) has the following:
- a Dashboard tab that shows an overview of trading activity and volume, trusted traders, the ticker with various rates including the mining premium.
- a Un-Ex tab that shows the existing trades (largely as it stands already but with a few extra details such as number of stars, number of positive trades to date, total volume in BTC of trades to date (maybe not this one as we get bigger) - whatever I do, it'd be enough detail to give the prospective new trader sufficient motivation to participate
- a Trusted Traders tab that gives a list of all current TT's, basically an organised verion of IMZ's blog list. Stars would be calculated automatically (with our ongoing oversight) based on details as per my post about this yesterday.
With the above in mind, I'd particularly like to add a column in the Un-Ex tab that is just for miners, where they would paste the UNO Blockchain Explorer link to the block/s they've just mined when listing a new amount of UNO to trade on the Un-Ex. This would be for verification purposes so that other Un-Ex users and particularly TT's (who are paying the Miners' Premium) can check to help make sure they're not just giving higher prices to enterprising goons who have not just mined this UNO they're selling.
-
It'll take me about 6 hours to implement the above - I've only been doing this stuff for a few days now and need to search the help doco as I learn how to do the things I want to achieve. Once implemented and working, the immediate next stage would be quality communication to the crypto community at large that "UNO directly supports miners: we pay miners directly, there's a pool of traders ready to pay you, the trading is P2P rather than through a centralised exchange, we have a trust network", etc. etc. I'd like to see a more polished intro to this Un-Ex thread that incorporates the above, at that point, too. (I'll help draft this, IMZ - and whomever else is interested). In short, ensuring it has to be profitable for miners and not too difficult to do it, so they'll be resting on our existing trust network to sell. There is a question of how readily a new miner would hand over the UNO first in a trade with a TT, so I think it is probably pretty important to ensure the interface is reasonably polished at that point. We're still talking manual trades here (ie. spreadsheet rather than more automated website/exchange-type implementation - for now), but testing the process before taking it too public would be smart.
I'd ideally like to have this implemented tonight but I seriously just don't have the time right this minute. Am keen to jump on it ASAP though.
^^ Just a few thoughts from a VERY busy cragv this evening. I've got All The Things to do that aren't related to cryptos at all, but I've been thinking about this stuff in the meantime. Very early days here still (we're just working from a spreadsheet rather than a dedicated website), but the wheels are turning. More to come as I have time - hectic week ahead!! Cheers.
--
@IMZ, my spreadsheet ticker has a current DVC/UNO price of 13.43kg. Your update puts it at 13.807kg. Tell me how you calculate it and I'll try to modify mine to more closely match it. (My current method relies on the silver price from APMEX and the UNO price from Cryptonator, so this would account for the difference if your sources are elsewhere... it may not even matter that our prices are a little bit different, but it'd be nice to have them the same given you're still posting the price in the thread here!) Ta.
My Un-Ex Trade Tracker spreadsheet uses Cryptonator's API to determine the current UNO/BTC rate. Could people please weigh in on what percentage they're willing to pay on an ongoing basis on top of the going rate? If we agree on paying a 5% premium, for example, the UNO miner looking to sell their newly-minted UNO could 1) save on paying exchange fees and 2) get more BTC/LTC/DOGE/whatever else for their UNO.
I propose that the next iteration of the trade tracker (coming in the next few days as I have time - am unavailable so am not yet sure on timing) has the following:
- a Dashboard tab that shows an overview of trading activity and volume, trusted traders, the ticker with various rates including the mining premium.
- a Un-Ex tab that shows the existing trades (largely as it stands already but with a few extra details such as number of stars, number of positive trades to date, total volume in BTC of trades to date (maybe not this one as we get bigger) - whatever I do, it'd be enough detail to give the prospective new trader sufficient motivation to participate
- a Trusted Traders tab that gives a list of all current TT's, basically an organised verion of IMZ's blog list. Stars would be calculated automatically (with our ongoing oversight) based on details as per my post about this yesterday.
With the above in mind, I'd particularly like to add a column in the Un-Ex tab that is just for miners, where they would paste the UNO Blockchain Explorer link to the block/s they've just mined when listing a new amount of UNO to trade on the Un-Ex. This would be for verification purposes so that other Un-Ex users and particularly TT's (who are paying the Miners' Premium) can check to help make sure they're not just giving higher prices to enterprising goons who have not just mined this UNO they're selling.
-
It'll take me about 6 hours to implement the above - I've only been doing this stuff for a few days now and need to search the help doco as I learn how to do the things I want to achieve. Once implemented and working, the immediate next stage would be quality communication to the crypto community at large that "UNO directly supports miners: we pay miners directly, there's a pool of traders ready to pay you, the trading is P2P rather than through a centralised exchange, we have a trust network", etc. etc. I'd like to see a more polished intro to this Un-Ex thread that incorporates the above, at that point, too. (I'll help draft this, IMZ - and whomever else is interested). In short, ensuring it has to be profitable for miners and not too difficult to do it, so they'll be resting on our existing trust network to sell. There is a question of how readily a new miner would hand over the UNO first in a trade with a TT, so I think it is probably pretty important to ensure the interface is reasonably polished at that point. We're still talking manual trades here (ie. spreadsheet rather than more automated website/exchange-type implementation - for now), but testing the process before taking it too public would be smart.
I'd ideally like to have this implemented tonight but I seriously just don't have the time right this minute. Am keen to jump on it ASAP though.
^^ Just a few thoughts from a VERY busy cragv this evening. I've got All The Things to do that aren't related to cryptos at all, but I've been thinking about this stuff in the meantime. Very early days here still (we're just working from a spreadsheet rather than a dedicated website), but the wheels are turning. More to come as I have time - hectic week ahead!! Cheers.
--
@IMZ, my spreadsheet ticker has a current DVC/UNO price of 13.43kg. Your update puts it at 13.807kg. Tell me how you calculate it and I'll try to modify mine to more closely match it. (My current method relies on the silver price from APMEX and the UNO price from Cryptonator, so this would account for the difference if your sources are elsewhere... it may not even matter that our prices are a little bit different, but it'd be nice to have them the same given you're still posting the price in the thread here!) Ta.
Un-Ex 11/1/2015 [Western Australia – a half a day ahead of the U.S.]
Here is the trade-tracker
Unobtanium 'solid': .0095/.0082
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/133
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-UNO
https://bleutrade.com/exchange/UNO/BTC
https://coinbroker.io/trade/?symbol=UNO.BTC;
Trusted Traders:
http://indiamikezulu.com.au/454/list-of-trusted-traders/
DVC: 13.807 Uno
Liquidity Pledges:
Australia: March, IMZ Mark: $AU 250
.25 Btc for newly-mined Unobtanium (premium @ 5-10% ?) Wallet id: 19FVLwUpitdcNbNACazdpxRuuyEq47v4iW
Here is the trade-tracker
Unobtanium 'solid': .0095/.0082
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/133
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-UNO
https://bleutrade.com/exchange/UNO/BTC
https://coinbroker.io/trade/?symbol=UNO.BTC;
Trusted Traders:
http://indiamikezulu.com.au/454/list-of-trusted-traders/
DVC: 13.807 Uno
Liquidity Pledges:
Australia: March, IMZ Mark: $AU 250
.25 Btc for newly-mined Unobtanium (premium @ 5-10% ?) Wallet id: 19FVLwUpitdcNbNACazdpxRuuyEq47v4iW
Liquidity Pledges:
Australia: March, IMZ Mark: $AU 250
.25 Btc for newly-mined Unobtanium (premium @ 5-10% ?) Wallet id: 19FVLwUpitdcNbNACazdpxRuuyEq47v4iW (Should be comin' in off Bittrex floor in an hour.)
Australia: March, IMZ Mark: $AU 250
.25 Btc for newly-mined Unobtanium (premium @ 5-10% ?) Wallet id: 19FVLwUpitdcNbNACazdpxRuuyEq47v4iW (Should be comin' in off Bittrex floor in an hour.)
cragv Un-Ex trade offer: I'll pay 15kg UNO for 1 DVC. Ta.
Un-Ex 10/1/2015 [Western Australia – a half a day ahead of the U.S.]
Unobtanium 'solid': .0082/.0079
Here is the trade-ticker
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/133
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-UNO
https://bleutrade.com/exchange/UNO/BTC
https://coinbroker.io/trade/?symbol=UNO.BTC;
Trusted Traders:
http://indiamikezulu.com.au/454/list-of-trusted-traders/
DVC: 14.347 Uno
Liquidity Pledges:
Australia: March, IMZ Mark: $AU 250
Unobtanium 'solid': .0082/.0079
Here is the trade-ticker
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/133
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-UNO
https://bleutrade.com/exchange/UNO/BTC
https://coinbroker.io/trade/?symbol=UNO.BTC;
Trusted Traders:
http://indiamikezulu.com.au/454/list-of-trusted-traders/
DVC: 14.347 Uno
Liquidity Pledges:
Australia: March, IMZ Mark: $AU 250
Trade Offer BeneD0021: I have 14 UNO to buy 1 DVC
Thanks Benefactor, I was asking Mark about stars from a 'vision' perspective rather than a permission or appeal perspective. I'm on board with the decentralised, 'no one is in charge' model here.
Thanks also Ian, I appreciate that.
Stars: Thanks for clarifying, IMZ. I'm thinking the stars process could still be cautiously and experimentally 'automated with oversight':
- spreadsheet tracks trades and results (will add fields for Buyer and Seller to check box saying 'coin received' or something)
- spreadsheet calculates stars as a function of:
- average number of positive trades in a given period
- average value per trade
- number of different trading partners (high number required for higher star rating as a protective measure)
- period of time since users' first trade
- amount of DVC issued (not currently held)/PM holdings pledged
With such a system (any and all of the above tweaked until reasonably functional), the Trades sheet could then automatically show number of stars next to the user who is offering their latest trade.
Just thoughts for now, much refinement and discussion to follow as we nut things out! Thanks all.
Thanks also Ian, I appreciate that.
Stars: Thanks for clarifying, IMZ. I'm thinking the stars process could still be cautiously and experimentally 'automated with oversight':
- spreadsheet tracks trades and results (will add fields for Buyer and Seller to check box saying 'coin received' or something)
- spreadsheet calculates stars as a function of:
- average number of positive trades in a given period
- average value per trade
- number of different trading partners (high number required for higher star rating as a protective measure)
- period of time since users' first trade
- amount of DVC issued (not currently held)/PM holdings pledged
With such a system (any and all of the above tweaked until reasonably functional), the Trades sheet could then automatically show number of stars next to the user who is offering their latest trade.
Just thoughts for now, much refinement and discussion to follow as we nut things out! Thanks all.
@ cragv: how are the stars calculated, you ask? Wa ha ha . . .
One star: you have completed one trade to the satisfaction of the TT involved.
Five stars: you start to glow golden, and two women strew rose petals beneath your feet as you walk to the Rolls.
Seriously, 'two,' 'three,' and 'four' are not sharply distinguished. Two is 'not just a one-starrer.' By the time you get to four, you'd do a $1,000 deal without concern -- but it might still be a wise protocol to break it into a coupla 'packets'.
Note: please remain in the habit of nudging me to get your Rating raised. (For example, Benefactor must have his Rating raised this very second!) And, of course:
I am not in charge
m
One star: you have completed one trade to the satisfaction of the TT involved.
Five stars: you start to glow golden, and two women strew rose petals beneath your feet as you walk to the Rolls.
Seriously, 'two,' 'three,' and 'four' are not sharply distinguished. Two is 'not just a one-starrer.' By the time you get to four, you'd do a $1,000 deal without concern -- but it might still be a wise protocol to break it into a coupla 'packets'.
Note: please remain in the habit of nudging me to get your Rating raised. (For example, Benefactor must have his Rating raised this very second!) And, of course:
I am not in charge
m
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