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Topic: updated - page 3. (Read 10457 times)

hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
September 26, 2012, 02:25:37 AM
#77
To be fair it should make the dividends increase by a lot since the same revenue now gets split amongst less shares. That over time might increase the share price for people who want dividend income stream.

Thats of course true if you believe there will be (non trivial) dividends to be paid. Without a public record of CPA's assets and liabilities, I wouldnt count on that, not when it indirectly holds at least 1000s of obsiponzi bonds (through its ownership of NYAN)  and  has to insure Nyan.A (and who knows what else) against obsi.ponzi losses.

Im just saying thats the reasoning behind it. Im as annoyed as anyone that OBSI.HRPT is held by both NYAN.A and B when in reality it should be solely in NYAN.C which is the HIGH RISK FUND.

legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
September 26, 2012, 02:21:42 AM
#76
To be fair it should make the dividends increase by a lot since the same revenue now gets split amongst less shares. That over time might increase the share price for people who want dividend income stream.

Thats of course true if you believe there will be (non trivial) dividends to be paid. Without a public record of CPA's assets and liabilities, I wouldnt count on that, not when it indirectly holds at least 1000s of obsiponzi bonds (through its ownership of NYAN)  and  has to insure Nyan.A (and who knows what else) against obsi.ponzi losses.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
September 26, 2012, 02:09:47 AM
#75
Congratulations!

..to the shareholders that got out.

In about one week, CPA market valuation just went from
52500 x 0.1 = 5250  
to
36160 x 0.034 =1229




To be fair it should make the dividends increase by a lot since the same revenue now gets split amongst less shares. That over time might increase the share price for people who want dividend income stream.

legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
September 26, 2012, 02:01:42 AM
#74
Congratulations!

..to the shareholders that got out.

In about one week, CPA market valuation just went from
52500 x 0.1 = 5250  
to
36160 x 0.034 =1229

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
September 25, 2012, 09:36:50 PM
#73
I am a shareholder and bought NYAN.A mainly because it was sold as low risk and now it contains 2000 ponzi shares meaning I need to realise a loss to get out of it. In what world is HRPT low risk  Huh

Contract includes a bidwall @ .99 do not sell for an immense loss.

There is no bidwall at .99 so yet again the contract is not being honored. Its called a "bidwall" for a reason.

Meh - contract only says it'll be maintained in a reasonably timely manner.  If it's been cleared with sells then just put shares up for sale at .99 and wait for usagi to come online and replace the wall.  If he/she doesn't do it then, then you have a complaint - but short of using all the funds on a bidwall there's no way to guarantee a wall will always be there when someone wants to sell.

I'd seriously suggest putting up a sell order rather than waiting for the bidwall btw - usagi's idea of a wall may be rather more modest than what you or I would consider to be a wall.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
September 25, 2012, 09:18:09 PM
#72
I am a shareholder and bought NYAN.A mainly because it was sold as low risk and now it contains 2000 ponzi shares meaning I need to realise a loss to get out of it. In what world is HRPT low risk  Huh

Contract includes a bidwall @ .99 do not sell for an immense loss.

There is no bidwall at .99 so yet again the contract is not being honored. Its called a "bidwall" for a reason.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
September 25, 2012, 09:12:17 PM
#71
I am a shareholder and bought NYAN.A mainly because it was sold as low risk and now it contains 2000 ponzi shares meaning I need to realise a loss to get out of it. In what world is HRPT low risk  Huh

Contract includes a bidwall @ .99 do not sell for an immense loss.

Yup - nyan.a shareholders aren't facing any sort of disaster (unless you believe usagi will actually default).

It's nyan.b that are really getting screwed - their safe(er) investments will get handed to nyan.a because nyan.a chose to invest in HRPT.  Doubt many nyan.b investors read the contract and expected their assets to end up being given to nyan.a because nyan.a invested in a high-risk non-mining security.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
September 25, 2012, 09:04:52 PM
#70
I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

Looks like 600 coins of stock bought back. 7k USD isn't something I would sneeze at. I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed, but that is neither here nor there. I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue. I also agree that CPA should only be partially valued based upon NAV. This sort of metric works really well when looking at stock portfolios such as YABIF, but not so well when it comes to actual businesses.

Assets with minimal liquidity are pretty standard for this exchange. This is particularly true since the pirate induced credit shift and the faltering of mining with the ASIC switch.

I'd be most worried that having lost a ton on Pirate she's now trying to go double or bust on Obsi.  And her companies have more exposure to Obsi than she seems to realise (some of which, in fairness, wasn't her doing and is now unavoidable).  She seems to have confidence in OBSI.HRPT at a time when nearly everyone else in the market believes it's a Ponzi about to crash.  This smacks more of desperation to make a profit (for once), than of planned exposure to a properly assessed risk.

It's not desperation! The point is NYAN.C has right in its contact it will blindly "invest" in anything giving immediate profit, regardless of the worries it might be all gone tomorrow. So he/she wasn't having a special confidence in OBSI.HRPT, but buying them was the only way to truly follow the contract.
The problem with this is when A and B have losses too, and to make up for that, toxic assets make their way out of C to funds that should be clean of that junk.

If HRPT doesn't collapse , the assets will be moved out before bitcoins are. So the assets will find themselves back in .C in short order, or sold if they can't be.

Nefario has confirmed that asset thread's OP are valid and binding in terms of the contract in his comments on Goat's delisting.

Therefore I can do what I want (i.e. what I said I was going to do) wrt OBSI.HRPT and the NYANS.

Stop whining. If you guys don't like it, don't invest. The contracts have all been there and been the same from day 1. THIS IS NOT A MANAGED FUND. IT IS A DERIVATIVE. Everything we do is disclosed. There is nothing underhanded going on here. DO NOT INVEST IN WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND.. and if you do.. don't whine about it. Thanks.

and if you do whine about it.. at least try to be a shareholder. People like Deprived and Puppet are just wastes of human brain cells.



I am a shareholder and bought NYAN.A mainly because it was sold as low risk and now it contains 2000 ponzi shares meaning I need to realise a loss to get out of it. In what world is HRPT low risk  Huh
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
September 25, 2012, 07:25:40 PM
#69
lol
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
September 25, 2012, 06:59:51 PM
#68
Now we're back to just insulting those who question your dubious accounting & definition of risk. No. That's not really how it works.

It's a huge red flag. Defensiveness always is....especially when it's so aggressive.

I will personally continue to state my opinions about your behavior and practices so that others might be aware, and do their own due diligence on the subjects. If at some time you change your accounting, or behavior, I will change my tune. I have no personal problem with you, but I see massive risk for investors in your accounting. You may think it's bullshit, and overstated, but usually company owners do.

But hey...I've had these concerns since I first met you, before you built any companies. What you've built has only shown me that my concerns were valid and are being realized.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
September 25, 2012, 04:31:50 PM
#67
I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

Looks like 600 coins of stock bought back. 7k USD isn't something I would sneeze at. I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed, but that is neither here nor there. I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue. I also agree that CPA should only be partially valued based upon NAV. This sort of metric works really well when looking at stock portfolios such as YABIF, but not so well when it comes to actual businesses.

Assets with minimal liquidity are pretty standard for this exchange. This is particularly true since the pirate induced credit shift and the faltering of mining with the ASIC switch.

I'd be most worried that having lost a ton on Pirate she's now trying to go double or bust on Obsi.  And her companies have more exposure to Obsi than she seems to realise (some of which, in fairness, wasn't her doing and is now unavoidable).  She seems to have confidence in OBSI.HRPT at a time when nearly everyone else in the market believes it's a Ponzi about to crash.  This smacks more of desperation to make a profit (for once), than of planned exposure to a properly assessed risk.

It's not desperation! The point is NYAN.C has right in its contact it will blindly "invest" in anything giving immediate profit, regardless of the worries it might be all gone tomorrow. So he/she wasn't having a special confidence in OBSI.HRPT, but buying them was the only way to truly follow the contract.
The problem with this is when A and B have losses too, and to make up for that, toxic assets make their way out of C to funds that should be clean of that junk.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
September 25, 2012, 09:05:01 AM
#66
Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

How much of these funds were invested in OBSI.HRPT?

http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/nyan/

NYAN.A OBSI.1MHS   400   (price not updated)
NYAN.B OBSI.HRPT   5,367 (price not updated)
NYAN.C OBSI.HRPT   500   (price not updated)

Looks like it has not been updated for 9 days. This is obviously really convenient excuse to play dumb and shuffle that crap around.
Fact is, even A and B owners are exposed to "ponzy" grade junk.


There is also 2200 HRPT in NYAN.A which I complained about before as they shouldnt qualify as a low risk fund security.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank
September 25, 2012, 09:02:18 AM
#65
Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

How much of these funds were invested in OBSI.HRPT?

http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/nyan/

NYAN.A OBSI.1MHS   400   (price not updated)
NYAN.B OBSI.HRPT   5,367 (price not updated)
NYAN.C OBSI.HRPT   500   (price not updated)

Looks like it has not been updated for 9 days. This is obviously really convenient excuse to play dumb and shuffle that crap around.
Fact is, even A and B owners are exposed to "ponzy" grade junk.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
September 25, 2012, 09:00:28 AM
#64
Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

How much of these funds were invested in OBSI.HRPT?

looks like about 8000 shares direct exposure and.at least  a few thousand indirectly through other holdings like bmf.
www.tsukino.ca/cpa/nyan/

that's only obsi hrpt.  don't be shocked if the other obsi junk goes too.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
September 25, 2012, 08:30:25 AM
#63
Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

How much of these funds were invested in OBSI.HRPT?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
September 25, 2012, 07:36:51 AM
#62
Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank
September 25, 2012, 07:28:35 AM
#61
Code:
Symbol     2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21 2012.09.22 2012.09.23 2012.09.25    Change  7 days
CPA              52079      52079      52079      52079      50829      42500      -9579    -18,39%
BMF               5244       5347       5337       5337       4947       4598       -646    -12,32%
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606       1606       1606       1504       -107     -6,64%
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127       2127       2078       1847       -286    -13,41%
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434       3414       3383       3326       -154     -4,43%
YARR               290         80         80         80         63         63       -227    -78,28%
NYAN              1417       1417       1416       1416       1336        911       -506    -35,71%

Gain/loss from first day of trading (provided by assbot)
Code:
CPA [[email protected]] paid: 0.00569688 BTC. Last price: 0.01 BTC. Capital gain: -0.09 BTC. Total: -0.08430312 BTC. (-84.3%)
BMF [1@1BTC] paid: 0.09810305 BTC. Last price: 0.4104 BTC. Capital gain: -0.5896 BTC. Total: -0.49149695 BTC. (-49.1%)
NYAN.A [1@1BTC] paid: 0.08 BTC. Last price: 1 BTC. Capital gain: 0 BTC. Total: 0.08 BTC. (8%)
NYAN.B [1@1BTC] paid: 0.14081227 BTC. Last price: 0.95 BTC. Capital gain: -0.05 BTC. Total: 0.09081227 BTC. (9.1%)
NYAN.C [1@1BTC] paid: 0.14837546 BTC. Last price: 0.09 BTC. Capital gain: -0.91 BTC. Total: -0.76162454 BTC. (-76.2%)
YARR [[email protected]] paid: 0.37 BTC. Last price: 1 BTC. Capital gain: -0.28 BTC. Total: 0.09 BTC. (7%)
NYAN [1@1BTC] paid: 0.07637664 BTC. Last price: 0.945 BTC. Capital gain: -0.055 BTC. Total: 0.02137664 BTC. (2.1%)

Total gain, if you invested equal amount of coin to every "fond": -26.2%
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
September 23, 2012, 04:34:44 PM
#60
I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

I dont think there is anything balanced about it. They are all knee deep in obsiponzi and other ponzi schemes. And because of the "incestuous ownership", it will have serious ramifications in all his other companies which either own or insure those bonds.

Quote
As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

A little FUD is certainly warranted if you go over the books. There is every reason to have fear, uncertainty and doubt about what will happen if/when obsiponzi collapses.

Quote
I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed.

And you think it should have? If you do, then thank us for the opportunity to buy some more shares cheaply.

Quote
I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue.


I have no idea, but it would be interesting to find out how much of that is from other usagi companies and even more what sort of liability those 150BTC cause. If he (she?) insured other bonds that have direct or indirect obsiponzi  exposure, this could become very very ugly very fast. No one pays for insurance if its not to insure some significant liability.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
September 23, 2012, 04:17:39 PM
#59
I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

Looks like 600 coins of stock bought back. 7k USD isn't something I would sneeze at. I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed, but that is neither here nor there. I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue. I also agree that CPA should only be partially valued based upon NAV. This sort of metric works really well when looking at stock portfolios such as YABIF, but not so well when it comes to actual businesses.

Assets with minimal liquidity are pretty standard for this exchange. This is particularly true since the pirate induced credit shift and the faltering of mining with the ASIC switch.

I'd be most worried that having lost a ton on Pirate she's now trying to go double or bust on Obsi.  And her companies have more exposure to Obsi than she seems to realise (some of which, in fairness, wasn't her doing and is now unavoidable).  She seems to have confidence in OBSI.HRPT at a time when nearly everyone else in the market believes it's a Ponzi about to crash.  This smacks more of desperation to make a profit (for once), than of planned exposure to a properly assessed risk.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
September 23, 2012, 04:10:54 PM
#58
I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

Looks like 600 coins of stock bought back. 7k USD isn't something I would sneeze at. I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed, but that is neither here nor there. I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue. I also agree that CPA should only be partially valued based upon NAV. This sort of metric works really well when looking at stock portfolios such as YABIF, but not so well when it comes to actual businesses.

Assets with minimal liquidity are pretty standard for this exchange. This is particularly true since the pirate induced credit shift and the faltering of mining with the ASIC switch.
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