Using bitcoin for transactions in country where it is illegal. - page 4.

freedomgo

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Quote from: CryptoBuds on September 28, 2024, 09:28:56 PM

But if you already know that bitcoin is not legal in your country and you still try to use it for transactions. Basically, this is not a wise idea even if you have a witness because if you have to participate in a lawsuit, you may not be protected by the law in this case.

Indeed, since lawsuits are based on the law, if there’s no law, then there’s no imprisonment. For example, if there’s no law punishing those who commit murder, then you wouldn’t be jailed if you killed someone. Basic explanation.

Quote from: CryptoBuds on September 28, 2024, 09:28:56 PM

But I don't understand why we use bitcoin as a payment method when we have more convenient solutions? Especially since bitcoin is not legalized in our country, it's like we're driving ourselves into a dead end. Moreover, isn't it because we always want to protect our privacy that we choose bitcoin as a store of wealth? Why would we use it openly and even make a transaction that is considered illegal? If it were me, I would stay away from this from the start.

We don’t know the reason behind the person described in the OP, but one thing’s certain, they’re not aware of the law. However, If the transaction has already been completed, they could ask the seller to transfer the property as a donation. This way, the consideration of the ~~money~~ (bitcoin) received would no longer be relevant.

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Quote from: Woodie on September 28, 2024, 01:37:44 PM

If you are going to use bitcoin in a country which considers it to be illegal then I think a VPN would be recommended, but when it comes to transactions which involve big sums like buying assets such as a house then documents will be needed, if you can afford a lawyer to facilitate the transaction then do so to protect your transaction just to make sure you have this recorded somewhere!!

Never go the crypto way to buy assets without witnesses because the seller can easily say they dont remember receiving these funds or this didn't happen and you can be at a great loss.

But if you already know that bitcoin is not legal in your country and you still try to use it for transactions. Basically, this is not a wise idea even if you have a witness because if you have to participate in a lawsuit, you may not be protected by the law in this case.

But I don't understand why we use bitcoin as a payment method when we have more convenient solutions? Especially since bitcoin is not legalized in our country, it's like we're driving ourselves into a dead end. Moreover, isn't it because we always want to protect our privacy that we choose bitcoin as a store of wealth? Why would we use it openly and even make a transaction that is considered illegal? If it were me, I would stay away from this from the start.

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Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it?

The state won't recognize the transaction if Bitcoin is illegal in a particular country. And here's the thing—the risk falls on the buyer because the seller could be a scammer who might later claim they were scammed, trying to take back the property. Even though the blockchain provides a public ledger as proof of the transaction, since Bitcoin is illegal in that country, the government won't assist in investigating and will side with the property seller. This makes it extremely risky to go through a legal process, which is crucial for acquiring property and transferring ownership.

mirakal

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I have to say, both of you will receive sanctions on your actions. It's like you know the rules, but you chose to break the rules and do something instead that is clearly against with it, so both of you will be investigated and if proven guilty, you will end up with punishments.

Just try not to insist doing things illegally. Because in the long run, whether you've taken it as your advantage, but court will always stick to its law. And no one is above or beyond the law itself.

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Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

I think it will be considered because in the court of law, every evidence is availed a chance of examination and untill proven not to be viable, it's upheld after which a fine or sentence can be passed on the other party for accepting an illegal form of payment and the payee will be given his own sentence for paying through such unapproved methods, I am not a lawyer but logically I think this may apply but otherwise I stand to be corrected.

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Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

In a country where crypto is not legal, it's even an offence to use it, which means the person who claims they have bitcoin and used it to make payment will be in trouble.

And since the payment method used is not legal, it can't be considered a payment at all. The person will be asked to pay back if he or she really wants to keep that property. The payment and any fines levied on the person will be paid.

There have been similar cases of such, but it was a luxury car purchase. I can't find the link to the case; I would have shared it here.

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Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

If such transactions are shown to court or law then both parties will have to pay the fines and may get behind bars for breaking the law. And, there's chance that both parties Bitcoin assets might get seized by the authorities once they learn about it. I think one should avoid Bitcoin transactions in a country where law doesn't allow it.

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It would be bad for both sides if the buyer decide to expose the seller that he owns bitcoin and have been using it even though it is illegal in their country to use. For buyer side is that the property owner wouldn't say that he received the payment in bitcoin even though he really did get the payment and he can expose the property owner that he's been using bitcoin many times even though it is illegal in the country if he decided to exposed both of them. Also, it will be very suspicious when you suddenly have lots of money and will be curious where the funds came from.

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Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?

I don't want to think about the rest of the story but my concern here is that no body can ever deny not to have received a Bitcoin transaction that have been successful confirmed because the evidence is not hidden. If anyone denies not to have received their payment that is successfully confirmed on the blockchain, they can look through their address to see if they have moved it out to another wallet and if such unauthorized withdrawal is made from the receivers end, the sender is not to be blame or hold responsible.

Any customer that tries to deny such payment in a country that Bitcoin is not legal is only trying to implicate the person that is making the Bitcoin payment.

Woodie

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If you are going to use bitcoin in a country which considers it to be illegal then I think a VPN would be recommended, but when it comes to transactions which involve big sums like buying assets such as a house then documents will be needed, if you can afford a lawyer to facilitate the transaction then do so to protect your transaction just to make sure you have this recorded somewhere!!

Never go the crypto way to buy assets without witnesses because the seller can easily say they dont remember receiving these funds or this didn't happen and you can be at a great loss.

dificanovi

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In my opinion, it is better not to report to the police because it is risky, it is possible that the suspect and the victim will both be punished for using Bitcoin as a means of payment in their country which has clearly banned Bitcoin. It is better to use bitcoin for investment or trading if we are in a country that prohibits bitcoin, if we want to buy something then we must exchange Bitcoin into fiat money to be safer.

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Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

If you have Bitcoin and use a VPN or Tor every time you make a transaction and broadcast, then no one will know that you are a Bitcoin user. If you send someone a coin that way in your country and that person is quiet, i.e. it stays within you two, then you are safe. If bitcoin transaction is illegal and that person claims that he hasn't received Bitcoin, then that person is safe but if that person claims that he had to receive bitcoin but didn't receive Bitcoin and files a lawsuit against you, then he is in danger. If it's illegal, you definitely shouldn't provide proof of payments, if you provide, then you'll be in trouble. You shouldn't take that risk, you shouldn't make yourself dependent on someone else's honesty, especially in a case when your future can be ruined.
Seoincorporation gave you a good real-life comparison.

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Quote from: Peanutswar on September 28, 2024, 03:49:02 AM

...instead why not to convert your bitcoin into the local currency so you don't get a problem with the payment I know its just more way easier on it to pay but I guess its quite hassle for transaction at the same time there's a proof of payment...

You are forgetting something very important: the source of the money. You can't just turn up with hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash and go, I want to buy a house. What's the source of your money, how did you obtain it? Can you prove how you earned it? Even if you wanted to pay taxes with illegally obtained funds, the tax office isn't going to accept it, and you will get into even bigger trouble as there will be an investigation into your business dealings.

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I don't really understand the law. However, if a country has banned alternative transactions using bitcoin, and the person still uses it, I think the person will be punished. I don't know about the person who owns the property, but the person who made the transaction has committed a violation, and the law of the country has stated that it is illegal, and maybe to avoid something like this. so it all depends on the outcome of the court's decision. In my own country, bitcoin is also banned as an alternative payment, but it is allowed as an investment. So I only use bitcoin as an investment.

Pmalek

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If bitcoin is illegal in a country, then you can't legally obtain property with it. Legal or not, you shouldn't pay for property with bitcoin without proper paperwork filled out and signed in front of a public notary. The seller can, of course, claim that you never paid for the property as there is no proof you did.

Both seller and buyer would be in trouble in such a scenario. They are breaking their nations laws by using a payment method the country doesn't recognize and deems illegal. You might as well pay with drugs, weapons, and stolen kidneys. The only difference is the penalties for such offences.

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Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

Actually no, it is already in their law so any transactions related to it possible you have a case fine will be sue on you because the first place you know already that's illegal, instead why not to convert your bitcoin into the local currency so you don't get a problem with the payment I know its just more way easier on it to pay but I guess its quite hassle for transaction at the same time there's a proof of payment and paper instead using the bitcoin and provide a transaction id. Depends on the decision and proof will be provided by the both party.

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You will not benefit from taking legal advice from the internet, not to mention that this advice is for a scenario that is unlikely to happen.

The difference in interpretation of such a case will be in the real estate law, if it allows payment in any currency, then the sales contract is valid, but since you owned the house with illegal money, the house may be confiscated and you may be imprisoned, so the contract is valid, but you will cause yourself legal problems.

Do not take legal advice from the internet, including the advice above.

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Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

First, don’t use bitcoin for transactions in a country where it is illegal. IMO it’s not worth risking jail time for. Secondly, if there is a disagreement between buyer and seller, it cannot be taken to court because both parties may face jail time for breaking the law in the first place.

I don’t think this transaction is possible in a country where bitcoin is illegal. Buying real estate is different from buying groceries or making bitcoin payments online. The purchase would require legal paperwork, the presence of a lawyer (on both sides), and a government agency.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on September 27, 2024, 02:47:14 PM

Quote from: Stepstowealth on September 27, 2024, 02:36:12 PM

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

The outcome would be bad for both sides, if the owner claim that he didn't get the money in bitcoin he could go to jail for the fact that he was making a deal with bitcoin.

Is like someone buying cocine and claiming that he didn't get the cocine, it's a ilegal activity and buyer and seller should get in troubles if they decide to deal the situación with the Police.

It's true that the outcome will be bad for both of them because the receiver will be seen as guilty as the sender, it'll then be a case of an offender and accomplice. I think that the severity of their judgement will depend on the extent of Bitcoin ban in their country. Bitcoin transaction will always be private between two parties anywhere in the world if they don't involve any third parties like CEX and the receiver don't try to scam the sender. It'll be nice to share a real life experience so we'll practically know how it was resolved.

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I asked GPT 4-o about it because I'm not a lawyer and AI is pretty good at such stuff on the basic advisory level. It said that the person who paid in Bitcoin and filed a lawsuit for being scammed is unlikely to get any compensation from the property owner by a court decision, and it is likely that the court would actually focus on the BTC user and persecuting him for using illegal payment option, although the scammer might face some kind of legal consequences as well.
So yeah, not a good situation for someone using Bitcoin for a major purchase in a country where Bitcoin is illegal.

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