Using Bitcoin to fight crime | Bitcointalksearch.org

niothor

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Quote from: amincd on November 15, 2013, 06:52:48 AM

Quote from: niothor on November 15, 2013, 05:07:53 AM

Maybe my paysafe example was bad , but what about green moneypak the guys with the virus are using.?

If those allow anonymous payments to be made as cheaply and easily as Bitcoin, then Bitcoin wouldn't be needed. For the same reason the cryptolocker guys are going to increasingly prefer bitcoin to other methods over time, those wanting to receive rewards anonymously for providing crime tips will want to receive bitcoin over other payment methods.

My point is, whatever advantage Bitcoin gives criminals looking to stay anonymous while doing crime, will also apply to crime fighters looking to stay anonymous while they receive financial compensation for reporting crime. It's a double edged sword.

Law enforcement and community policing efforts should be innovative and use Bitcoin's new capabilities to their advantage.

So , criminals will flock to bitcoin , hallelujah brother!!!!!!!!
I suggest you visit the scam section:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0

Cause until now , bitcoin is the something like this

Also , offering rewards for catching criminals will be the first step. It will take 2 seconds for the next one , hiring a hitman or a hitwoman.
It's human nature , no matter how many good things something does we find a way to use it so it fucks us back 10 times over.

amincd

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Quote from: niothor on November 15, 2013, 05:07:53 AM

Maybe my paysafe example was bad , but what about green moneypak the guys with the virus are using.?

If those allow anonymous payments to be made as cheaply and easily as Bitcoin, then Bitcoin wouldn't be needed. For the same reason the cryptolocker guys are going to increasingly prefer bitcoin to other methods over time, those wanting to receive rewards anonymously for providing crime tips will want to receive bitcoin over other payment methods.

My point is, whatever advantage Bitcoin gives criminals looking to stay anonymous while doing crime, will also apply to crime fighters looking to stay anonymous while they receive financial compensation for reporting crime. It's a double edged sword.

Law enforcement and community policing efforts should be innovative and use Bitcoin's new capabilities to their advantage.

niothor

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Quote from: amincd on November 15, 2013, 04:12:37 AM

Maybe I'm not understanding you.

Just to clarify: I'm suggesting that a known party, like a neighborhood watch group, offer rewards for tips leading to an arrest. The person providing information is anonymous. The person giving the reward is not. So payer is known and the receiver is anonymous.

In this scenario, the neighborhood watch group verifies the information before sending the reward to the bitcoin address of the person providing the information.

Quote

Paysafe cards can be anonymous too , but only for the user. The receiver or the merchant it's not.

So they wouldn't work for what I'm suggesting, which is that the receiver, who provided the information, is anonymous, and the payer is known.

you example
bitcoin reward (anonymous) > central authority > bitcoin reward (anonymous)
paysafe coupon (anonymous) > neighbourhood watch (not anonymous) > paysafe coupon (anonymous)

it's not a A > B , its A > C >B

this was for your first post now you come back with:
"So they wouldn't work for what I'm suggesting, which is that the receiver, who provided the information, is anonymous, and the payer is known."
we'll , whats different than send me a paysafecard or coupon ?

this is the way cryptovirus worked before bitcoin
the person giving the reward was not , the guys receiving the payment , well they still are.

Maybe my paysafe example was bad , but what about green moneypak the guys with the virus are using.?

amincd

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Maybe I'm not understanding you.

Just to clarify: I'm suggesting that a known party, like a neighborhood watch group, offer rewards for tips leading to an arrest. The person providing information is anonymous. The person giving the reward is not. So payer is known and the receiver is anonymous.

In this scenario, the neighborhood watch group verifies the information before sending the reward to the bitcoin address of the person providing the information.

Quote

Paysafe cards can be anonymous too , but only for the user. The receiver or the merchant it's not.

So they wouldn't work for what I'm suggesting, which is that the receiver, who provided the information, is anonymous, and the payer is known.

niothor

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Quote from: amincd on November 15, 2013, 01:50:03 AM

If someone doesn't want to be known to police, but is still willing to divulge information for a reward, they would prefer anonymous payments over a bank transfer or a face to face cash transfer.

If playsafecards have all of the characteristics of bitcoin, then could play the role of anonymous payment method as well, but I'm guessing their features are more limited.

This is what I alrady said. Bitcoin is anonymous between 2 persons. As long as it doesn't involve shipping goods to some address.
Paysafe cards can be anonymous too , but only for the user. The receiver or the merchant it's not.
So right now , everybody can donate in order to find some criminal.

Why the advantage of the p2p fails?
Because your system can't work without a core , because somebody has to verify the information.
Otherwise I would myself put bounties on some people the moment it is launched just for fun.
Also , without a central core to verify the info , how can you prevent people from reporting and afterwards giving info of fictional criminals (photos of people dead for ages) ?

tspacepilot

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I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.

I don't want crime nor do I want to fight it. I'm crime neutral.

Cyberdyne

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I definitely think bitcoin could help to fight crime.

For example, with bitcoin in the world, Venezuelan citizens have more of a chance to fight back against criminals like Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro.

amincd

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If someone doesn't want to be known to police, but is still willing to divulge information for a reward, they would prefer anonymous payments over a bank transfer or a face to face cash transfer.

If playsafecards have all of the characteristics of bitcoin, then could play the role of anonymous payment method as well, but I'm guessing their features are more limited.

niothor

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Quote from: amincd on November 14, 2013, 09:18:03 PM

All this talk about how Bitcoin's anonymity features enables crime misses an important fact: those same features enable us to fight crime.

Community watch groups can post rewards for information leading to the arrest of a criminal, and offer to pay the person who provided the information anonymously with Bitcoin.

This would allow people to do things such as take a picture of someone engaged in criminal activity, and upload it to the Crime Stopper's website, with a bitcoin address embedded in the picture. If the criminal is then caught, the community watch group would send the reward to the bitcoin address without having to meet the recipient or get their banking details.

Anonymous payments reduce the risk for people reporting crimes and receiving rewards for the information they provide. It increases the ability to fight crime in a decentralized fashion. It reduces the ability of violent and dangerous individuals to keep those in their community silent through fear.

Edit:

The reason you should want to see this happen is that if Bitcoin's digital cash features, like anonymity, are used by law enforcement to fight crime, the likelihood of regulations being passed against the use of Bitcoin will be less.

Well , in this case bitcoin payments (rewards) have no upper hand over other kind of payments. Bitcoin has it's strength in anonymous transactions between 2 people.
In this case , only the payer (donor) has to be anonymous. Paysafecards (?) available in like 1 million places and around 10 times easier to buy?

Rupture

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This idea is pretty retarded IMO

exstasie

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Quote from: amincd on November 14, 2013, 11:53:32 PM

I suspect that's because you're dealing with electronic money. It's like the whole Silk Road controversy. Silk Road didn't grow the drug trade, it just moved some of it to the internet.

As Bitcoin expands the use of electronic money, we'll see more crime dealing with electronic money. Instead of physical theft, we'll see digital theft.

Yes, it definitely is driving fraud online, but we've been dealing with electronic money fraud since 2005. Nothing really new, just seeing an influx going towards BTC related goods. It's easy for law enforcement to track online fraud right now..that is until the money is converted to BTC...then it makes it a challenge to track and pinpoint to a specific user.

amincd

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I suspect that's because you're dealing with electronic money. It's like the whole Silk Road controversy. Silk Road didn't grow the drug trade, it just moved some of it to the internet.

As Bitcoin expands the use of electronic money, we'll see more crime dealing with electronic money. Instead of physical theft, we'll see digital theft.

exstasie

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The amount of bad far out ways the amount of good in terms of fighting crime. I work in payment fraud and the number of account takeovers to buy bitcoins is unreal over the last month, most likely due to the increase in value. As someone else mentioned, there isn't much new BTC can do in terms of fighting fraud vs. what using BTC for fraud can do.

mises

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I don't see how this is any better than the current reward system for reporting crimes.

amincd

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This needs to be brought up as there are hearings right now about Bitcoin with Homeland Security.

Bitcoin should not be seen as helpful to crime in general. It changes the dynamics of how we interact, which will make some crimes easier to commit, and others more difficult. Overall, a more connected and advanced community will have less crime than a more primitive and less connected one, which suggests Bitcoin would reduce crime overall.

Bitcoin is also an excellent canary in the coal mine for exposing computer security holes. I remember Mike Caldwell making this point before. From an esponiage standpoint, it's better that people lose money and discover that their security is compromised, than for computers to remain exposed, and their information compromised for years without the owner's knowledge.

In this way, Bitcoin can be seen as a catalyst for improvements to cyber security, which is a critical national security issue.

These benefits of Bitcoin stem from its qualities as a decentralized electronic cash, and would vanish if its anonymity and other cash-like properties disappeared.

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Quote from: amincd on November 14, 2013, 10:02:42 PM

If we could get a trial program up and running, with bitcoin rewards for crime tips, that would do a lot for Bitcoin's image.

Also, Bitcoin payments wouldn't just help with local crime-fighting. Informants in large criminal organizations involved in high-profile crime could anonymously provide incriminating information about their organization's activities, along with their bitcoin address, and even disclose that information publicly, and be rewarded anonymously.

Quote from: retep

you're giving every single person you pay information that invites crime, such as how many Bitcoins they can take from you by force.

Good point.

Excellent. Can I disclose information about my butcher, too? He looks like an asian musulman, and I saw him giving away FREE candies to underaged dogs.

amincd

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If we could get a trial program up and running in a local community, with bitcoin rewards for crime tips, that would do a lot for Bitcoin's image.

Also, Bitcoin payments wouldn't just help with local crime-fighting. Informants in large criminal organizations involved in high-profile crime could anonymously provide incriminating information about their organization's activities, along with their bitcoin address, and even disclose that information ~~publicly~~ to the public, and be rewarded anonymously.

Quote from: retep

you're giving every single person you pay information that invites crime, such as how many Bitcoins they can take from you by force.

Good point.

Pente

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Quote from: Peter Todd on November 14, 2013, 09:39:09 PM

+1 Very clever.

And fighting crime aside, remember that without financial privacy, you're giving every single person you pay information that invites crime, such as how many Bitcoins they can take from you by force.

Yea, I should probably change my signature too!

Peter Todd

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+1 Very clever.

And fighting crime aside, remember that without financial privacy, you're giving every single person you pay information that invites crime, such as how many Bitcoins they can take from you by force.

Notanon

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Or use the current value of them to buy enough materials to build your own Batsuit and fight crime head on.

Topic: Using Bitcoin to fight crime (Read 1779 times)