Topic: vave.com - is a scammers & nationalists - page 3. (Read 1075 times)

100% he has a case.
The last proof he needed was them adding the Russian version of the updated term to their TOS.
Why else would they do this right after this incident if not recognizing they made a huge mistake, which they truely did.
This practice it very shady and deserves more light.

They are basically freerolling this customer, not more and not less.

At least they are kind of represented in our forum, this topic has be brought up in their ANN already. Their reply was only:


Kind of ridiculous.

So, if i understand right, they returned you only your deposit. On the one hand, they wrote about ban, but on the other hand, they wrote it only on one language. I can decide who is right but the OP just spent lots of time without profit and the casino didn`t lose. The result is about zero except time. It is not fair for both sides but it is the optimal decision as for me.

I Think Op has a case

Let us therefore re-examine the following points from Op;

• Op claimed that rule 2.1 was not in the ToS when he registered although he might not have evidence
• Op said that the rule of Rusia restriction is only available in the English version.  This shows that the edit was hastily done
• Another factor for determination is if Russia IP was blocked in the site and Op used VPN. If this is so, Op could be at fault,  especially if there is a rule not to conceal IP
• Op, consider to use a legal means if you are sure you didn't default no 3. I am sure Russia  blocks access to certain websites and vice versa

What you said is true, but who is the rule maker around there? It's them! We can't make them pay OP whatever they owe him as long as they don't want to, and since they have already added the clause in their terms and conditions, we can't prove that they have added that recently unless one of us or maybe OP has a screenshot of the same position of terms and conditions from before the inclusion of the new rule which will prove that they are lying.

If we can't prove that they have added the rule recently, after the winnings of OP, only so that they don't have to pay him his winnings, then we might have a case against the platform, otherwise, I don't see them being good enough to be willing to pay him what he has won without dragging this matter much.

If the clause that explains that Russian players will have their funds seized if they make certain wagers is excluded from the Russian terms, and the player is able to make a wager without being warned, then I consider it unethical to enforce the terms.

Adding it to the Russian terms after a player with frozen funds points out that it was missing, and then still refusing to pay the player just makes them look even more shady.

Even if it were included in the Russian terms, if they don't give a warning or anything and allow a player to make the wager the same as any other non restricted wager, I would still consider it unethical.  If players from Russia aren't allowed to make sports wagers, then don't offer sports wagers to players from Russia.  Seizing player funds should not be part of your business model.


Hired translators?  It's 2023 and they're running a crypto casino. 

I can't speak for the OP, but I can share from my own experience. When I first started gambling, I was completely clueless. I had no idea which platforms were trustworthy or reputable, and I was pretty lost when it came to finding them. In the early days, I experimented with different online casinos. Luckily, back then, strict KYC verification wasn't a big thing, so I didn't have to share my real personal info. I basically judged casinos based on my own experience. Needless to say, my experiences weren't always rosy. It wasn't until later that I stumbled upon this forum and other reputable casino review sites like BTCGOSU and the like.

So, I don't really feel like it's fair to pass judgment on the OP for going with a casino that isn't popular here. Perhaps the casino has some popularity within his local community or social circle. Maybe he stumbled upon an ad or a special promo offer that caught his attention. Or maybe he had some other valid reason for picking that casino. However, that doesn't give the casino a free pass to pull a scam on players.

They will not respond to your message. As long as you keep losing your money in these casinos, the rules & regulations will be fine. Whenever you win and try to withdraw money, problems will start. If you win too much money, your account will be banned. This is their policy.

I have seen a few TOS which stated that changes in the rules would have some kind of vacatio legis of 15 days, so during that time they are not firm and you can make the corresponding decisions. Of course, this is tricky because, if they don't notify you about these changes, it is difficult to constantly monitor the TOS of all the services you use, as long as you don't dedicate professionally to it, but that's the way these things work in the internet, not only in gambling.



That's a mystery to me too AHOYBRAUSE: we keep seeing cases like that and we keep asking ourselves "why!?". There are so many tested platforms, why would anybody deposit such amounts at an unknown one with zero reputation?

That's tough luck.
But it's the usual way these sites conduct their business. As long as you are down, no problem. As soon as you want to withdraw "their money", here come the KYC mail and further problems.

Changing the TOS without informing the players has been seen a lot lately. Stake does this all the time recently, they don't care if people read the new rules as long as they are protected by them.

People accept the rules when the register. Newly implemented rules clearly must be pointed out. I don't understand why that would be so hard, just send an email to all existing players that the TOS have changed, case closed.
Them changing the rules now, and you have proof of that, might play into your case against them. Maybe you can file a complaint at askgamblers or one of those other mediation sites.

I really hope the matter can be solved but given the history of casinos making changes as a disadvantage to the players I clearly doubt it, at least without any outside help.

By the way, I also have never heard of this site. Why deposit so much money at a relatively unknown gambling site is always beyond my understanding. I wouldn't take that risk. Those sites have 0 reputation and even making this case public will not really be interesting for them.

sent them my username and e-mail registered on vave in telegram. So far, no one has answered.

I don't think he created many threads, he only created this thread and posted it on the casino's ann thread, I don't see how that would be spam

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well, as far as i know ( i could be wrong ) but the sanctions are not prohibiting all citizens of russia not to play in online casinos, now if i am wrong and online casinos are prohibited from accepting people from russia then even if in the casino's totes do not mention anything about Russian citizens they could confiscate your money claiming that they are complying with international laws. From what I read of the response from their representative at this casino, he said that the casino did not confiscate anything, I confess that I did not understand what he means by that, if he is saying that they did not confiscate anything in your account and you are saying that you had money at the casino, then he said he asked you to send your username, you already sent him your username?

something that I see as being very strange is that the casino representative here on the forum ran to say that there was no deduction of money from your account, funny that he says that he found that, but when you showed him that money was deducted from your account then he then asked you for your username to go check your problem, I wonder why the casino representative ran to say that there was no deduction in your account and he still says that he found it, but then he asked you for your data? this is not a good sign, it looks like the casino is creating some kind of excuse for not paying you mainly because then it says that people from russia cannot use the casino, with that it is already clear that unfortunately these guys are not going to get you pay nothing

they already have an argument for not paying you, in their next answer they will say that because you are a Russian citizen and you have used the casino, so they cannot pay you and your account will be closed, I hope I am wrong in my prediction, but knowing the new casinos , I do not doubt that these will be their next answers, unfortunately casino tos are used as weapons by many new casinos, even when there is nothing in the tos they will add something to serve as an argument for not paying

thanks for the help. I appreciate it.

I also noticed that they inserted rule 2.1 into their Terms of Service (Russian translation) today. This particular item wasn't there yesterday.

Have you considered bringing your case to their licensor and filing a formal complaint? Also, since it seems like you're in the right here, why not explore third-party mediation? In my experience, the following are reputable mediators:

https://thepogg.com/
https://www.casinomeister.com/
https://casino.guru/
https://www.askgamblers.com/
Even if they choose not to respond to any of the mediators listed above, it could still negatively impact their reputation on those platforms.


ps. I edited your quote to show the screenshots.

vave still added item 2.1. in the rules in Russian. Looks like they did it today or yesterday. Because 2 days ago I went there and there was no this item. https://vave.com/en/information/terms-and-conditions




they also answered that they introduced this rule about Russian players less than a month ago. So they had to notify me about this, since I was already an active player and at least give back my deposits.

proof - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11_5q2BfKJnV7jA4fx4cbVjHR_kJHuAHX?usp=drive_link

[/quote]
By your definition of “winnings” means your original bankroll plus your 1.5K profit is hostage on the casino?
[/quote]


you understood correctly about winning. But specifically about the casino, they have a clause and there are players from Belarus, Curacao, Estonia, Israel, Latvia, Lithuania, United Kingdom, United States of America, Cyprus, France, Netherlands and that they are forbidden to play games on vave.com. And about Russian players, it was just said that you can’t make sports bets.

By your definition of “winnings” means your original bankroll plus your 1.5K profit is hostage on the casino?

Do you read their ToS before you play? They knew the fact that Russian players is typically restricted to play in the online casino due to the license requirements. They are using this to hostage your money which they really have a claim in technical perspective due to ToS violation. I’m not aware how the ToS of Vave.com looks like but reading their recent answer to your queries seems like they using your locality as trump card to hold your funds which is really shady.

But they should atleast refund your original balance and confiscate only your profit. This is the downside on playing to casino that you knew that you are violating their ToS simce your country is sanctioned on most services outside your country. They will surely allow you to play and lose but they will do this scammy trick when you are on profit side.

they gave away only $3,000 of the $17,000 deposit. And the account had $18,000. That is, they did not return my money to me and did not return any bonus on top of the payment.

I noticed that the casino staff confirmed in one of the emails that the current terms and conditions had been newly implemented on their website by the casino management. However, they avoided addressing whether these conditions were in place before you registered on the website or not. To me, this strongly suggests the casino's questionable behavior, indicating their main goal was to confiscate your funds as soon as your balance turned positive.

Also, if the casino actually wants to stick to their own rules, they should give you a full refund instead of just turning down the winning bets while taking the losing ones.

vave.com didn't reply to me when they added the item about Russian players.

yes, you understood everything correctly. My account was red (lost more than won) and the payouts were going well. As soon as my account went green (won $1.5k more than I lost) they requested KYC and took my $18k winnings.