Topic: [Video Interview] Kenna and Shrem @ Future of Money Summit - page 2. (Read 5513 times)

Thesis · Antithesis · Synthesis

The Zeitgeist/Venus Project people have to get over the fact that human desires are endless, so there will always be means to barter, thus money.

Even in a fully automated world, unless we become some kind of hive mind, there will always be scarcity, or rather a subjective perception of it. Only one individual or family or group can live at that one exclusive penthouse near the beach at the same time.

What we can work on however is to make everything in life as "free" as possible, starting by automating the provision of our basic needs. The open source movement is surely a great force in this. What this essentially can lead to is that there will be many "flatrates" for most aspects in daily life, the cheaper, the better.

For example, a Venus Project city is nothing more or less than an enterprise that has to household with its resources, input vs output. If it can produce more energy than it needs, then living there will essentially be free for its inhabitants.

We can and should work towards this future in a bottom-up way, mind you, not like dictator Peter Joseph imagines things, wanting to centrally control the world's resources.

Glad to hear all went well at the conference!  It is exciting that Bitcoin is being taken more seriously by some of the corporate folks...

Money is coercion. We should continue this OT conversation here though.

Sorry, no. I'm going to use some money today, for the purpose of exchange. To whom am I "denying prosperity" by this exchange? Money does not deny prosperity, it enables it, by offering to society a common means of exchange by which variant interests can be brought into harmony through the mechanism of pricing.

You're correct that technology improves peoples' lives. Think long and hard on the subject, and you may realize that money is technology. Bitcoin, as it happens, makes this fact even clearer. It is the best money-technology produced thus far.

Further, it is in fact impossible for an economy to operate at any desirable level without money. For if we took money away, people would barter. What would they barter for? Well, they'd find things which brought them relatively greater gain for their exchange. Over time, as people barter, they realize certain items are easier to trade than others. It's easier to trade eggs than it is to trade a hair dryer. It's easier to trade cigarettes than bicycles. It's easier to trade uniform gold and silver coins than either eggs or cigarettes. Certain bartered goods have properties that make them more useful in exchange than others, and when these exchanges play out we discover that people gravitate toward a small number of very tradable goods, and these become a common means of exchange. The term for this, is money.

So get rid of money, and it will reappear necessarily and unavoidably. The only way to prevent "money" is to use force to continually outlaw whatever subsequent product starts being exchanged commonly. The only way to prevent money, is thus to prevent barter, and that means to condemn each man to enjoy only what he can produce by himself in isolation. A sad state of affairs that would be.

Your hostility toward "money" is wholly misplaced, and should be more correctly oriented at the real villain - forced adoption of a "specific" money via the State, a money arrived at not through voluntary market exchange, not through barter, but through coercion.

Coercion is the problem, not money.

The purpose of money is to shift purchasing power through time.  It's ignorance, mismanagement and corruption that leads to bad outcomes.

Money emerge naturally when two kids play with collectible stickers.

The purpose of money is to deny prosperity to more and more people. Technology is what improves people's lives, and such developments are independent of any economic scheme. Prices distort perceptions and values because they have no physical referent, and are manipulated to corrupt, abusive, wasteful and destructive ends.

LightRider.... money allows prices to be set. Prices are the information that, without central planning, allows production to be adapted to demand, and thus allows prosperity for more and more people.

There is of course something very wrong with current fiat money system. But this thing is the central planning that comes with central banks. It's not money it self.

Please, learn and think about economic topics before trying the reinvent the world. Because the road to hell is paved with good intentions

Best way to end off the conference.

Ladies and gentlemen thank you for coming.

The Future

Of

Money

and Technology

is

BITCOIN

Depends on your definition of money. If you define it as "transferable value" then that's not going to happen any time soon.

-Jered

Hopefully the future of money is that it stops being used.

Bankers love it, then their compliance department sees it...

Good point!

If it happens, "game changer" is not too strong a phrase!

Right? Even California banks take a different attitide.

A banker walked up to me and said he knows all about Bitcoin and our business model and would be happy to be our bankers. WTF I have to beg NY Banks!

its very apparent to me that Silicon Valley finance companies take a different attitude towards Bitcoin than the NY Banks.  I was equally impressed with the knowledge and general attitude towards bitcoin at this event.  I'll be at the next one!

You go girl!

Truly was amazing!

I still can't believe how often I heard "Bitcoin" at that conference. Most people knew all about it.
I also only recall hearing "Silk Road" once and it didn't turn in to the 20 minute debate that it would have 6 months ago.
I believe people are actually starting to discuss the potential (and existing) real world uses for Bitcoin instead of focusing on what makes the biggest headline.

-Jered

Good Show Charlie! Excellent work.