Topic: VOD - Abusing Trust System - page 4. (Read 4051 times)

I don't think that is legal. (Not saying it is illegal)

Negative - You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.

Technically, Vod has the right to put it as long as he believes that such a trade might result in a scam.
Otherwise, you will only consider it a scam only when the scam is done over with? It is a warning, lol. I don't think you will get it removed, IMO.



Edit: The trust feedback was probably given not because of MS Terms, it was given because there are quite good chances that all the keys may be revoked.

Just because someone is selling msdn key for bitcoin doesnt means that bitcoin will be rejected by microsoft, do you think that if someone sells it for USD, then microsoft will be rejecting USD?

I spoke about Italy since I'm based there; however, the Italian law is based on European Directives so i don't think other EU allow such a trade - so, we can safely say such practices are also illegal in other European Union countries as well (total population is roughly 507 million people). As per forum rules, as stated by sirius, here: 1. Trading of goods that are illegal in the seller's or buyer's country is forbidden; so, since such deals are illegal there IF any buyer or seller involved are based there such a trade is not allowed in Marketplace board.

HE COULD DO NOTHING AGAINST RULES IF HE WOULD BE BASED IN FANTASYLAND SINCE NO ONE WOULD CARE ABOUT SUCH COUNTRY MAKING A FUSS OVER IT. EUROPEAN UNION IS NOT SO AVAILABLE TO PASS OVER IT...ALSO BECAUSE OF THE TTIP DEAL (LOOK AT ENFORCEMENT PART HERE) THAT SEEMS TO BE BOUND TO INCLUDE ARMONIZATION OF IP LAWS AND RECOGNITION OF COURTS SENTENCES.

Peace & Love

AFAIK only way for Microsoft to find if a person is using pirated version is by checking whether that ley is being used in one computer more than the number of computers the key should be used(see my above post).


Vod said it may happen and I can't comment on the "refund". That may not be appropriate too but he may have said that in general as this happens a lot here. It is better to change it to "FuckIdolPlus may NOT give you your money back".

Yeah, I guess I'm "crying a sob story for MS"....  maybe, because I want them to keep using Bitcoin and to integrate it globally.

Almost every company integrates Bitcoin for profits only and that's okay - that's the purpose of Bitcoin.

So VOD can see the future now? He KNOWS that the keys will be revoked (even though there are no customers complaining). Also apparently he KNOWS that this user will not reimburse his customers with a replacement or a refund some how. Did some one steal VOD out of the precog tank from minority report?

Only, he is not willing to do this in spite of the fact that it is not illegal.

This has nothing to do with Microsoft accepting bitcoin please drop this off because this is about someone is selling a MSDN key, that is all, so from your point of view if in some country the people use a lot of pirated version of microsoft does that means Microsoft will be unwilling to sell their products to the country?

To OP, this is an issue about ethical, in Most of the countries , a pirated version is actually being use as the "legal" version, vod thinks this is illegal thus according to what cakir found, even Microsoft isnt really care about this pirated version, so if you could present a solid evidence like this , vod will be willing to remove the negative trust

Sory for the 2^nd copy-paste but this is the answer to your statement.


Edit: Second last line might not be appropriate though.

Are you really crying a sob story for Microsoft? REALLY? If you think Microsoft gives two shits about you or Bitcoin, beyond profit motive, you are sorely mistaken.


Yes, yes, it is always insane, of course until it is you personally who have to deal with it. Then it is a travesty that must be corrected. It is way to easy to dismiss people from the sidelines when it has zero direct effect on you. BTW, the rules aren't so clear, especially relating to the trust system. In fact there are no official rules posted anywhere on the forum. This makes it much easier for those in charge to say "do as I say, not as I do", but then unfortunately leaves the rest of the forum guessing as to what is ok and looking to bad examples like VOD for an answer to what is acceptable behavior.

Oh my GOD, another thread about the trust system. This is really insane, I don't think Vod has abused the trust system but his negative trust is not necessary because legality and illegality is an abstract concept here in the forum. We do not know in which jurisdiction is based the seller and ours are only supposition.

However OP you should try to talk with Vod, only he can remove the negative trust and if he abused it then he will be removed from the trust system as few other users.

Good luck with your battle (that was only my personal opinion, and we are in a free forum with right & clear rules).

I have no idea about the legal situation, however I would like to remind OP that Microsoft is the largest company to accept Bitcoin for some of their products and you are not doing them a favour by selling MSDN. I care a lot less about him violating the ToS of companies that are unwilling to integrate Bitcoin.

Just a question for VoD, Even Microsoft doesn't care about cracked Windows versions and lets people to use them.
Latest statement about this: "cracked windows users will get windows 10 upgrade for free": http://www.windowscentral.com/you-can-upgrade-windows-10-free-even-if-youre-using-pirated-version-windows

Why do you care about people's selling Msdn keys?

Yes, it's unethical, wrong, maybe illegal but even Microsoft doesn't care, why do you?

Also people may just crack and use it for free (with viruses of course), And this may cause bitcoin theft...

Is "some jurisdictions" such as Italy the entire world? Is the seller based in one of these countries? Is the forum hosted in one of those countries? Are customers from those countries even trading with him? No? You don't know? In that case NOTHING HE IS DOING IS AGAINST THE FORUM RULES. In the VAST MAJORITY of the world this is NOT A CRIME but simply a violation of the terms of service. This forum is shifting from anarcho-capitalist to fascist pretty quickly now entering into the realm of telling people what they can and can't do with completely arbitrary moral justifications. Before you know it VOD will be personally enforcing AML and KYC regulations on the forum, and anyone who doesn't comply is a DIRTY SCAMMER!

It's a trust system not a "rate my service" system - you have every right to trust or distrust any person.

Of course, if you distrust people they will probably distrust you as well. I'm not using the trust system here, but I also see the need to act against questionable sales (including MSDN).

I don't left you a -ve trust feedback myself, since i didn't notice early your thread; however, I have to correct you since in some jurisdiction - like e.g. Italy - buying & selling w/o COAs and/or using SWs with such Keys on computers is illegal and dealt with huge administrative fines; however, often in some bigger cases, a felony charge is brought to courts.

Sure sounds like VOD to me.

ABitNut is the person who started the word that selling MSDN is illegal and what not. He ignited the fire and VOD became the gust of wind, spreading it.

Yes, we are doing this again. How many times will his "service" to the community be used as an excuse for his abusive behavior? Amazing how this is never a problem for Tomatocage but with VOD it is a recurring theme. He is in fact abusing his position on the default trust. He is lying claiming selling the keys is illegal, it is not. At worst it is a violation of the terms of service, NOT a criminal act. VOD simply evoked the issue of criminality in the hopes that the staff would do his extortion work for him and simply ban all the sellers for "illegal" activity.

Are there angry customers lined up complaining? No.
Is it a crime to sell them? No.

So who made VOD the moral arbiter Bitcointalk precrime sheriff?

If it is not against the forum rules, and there are no victims, what exactly is his justification for leaving negative trust ratings for any key seller he can find? Because someone could possibly maybe potentially lose their validation in the distant future? I think people paying a fraction of the retail price for these keys realize the reason the price is reduced is the increased risk of potential deactivation, and are perfectly willing to transact anyway. VOD is on the default trust list, and people on the default trust list DO IN FACT have their trust ratings moderated. As some one on the default trust, he has extra power to destroy people's reputations, and along with that comes more stringent standards for his own use of the trust system.

To me his -ve trust feedback to OP look legit & correct since he seems to strongly believe FuckIdolPlus his a scammer. If Vod wasn't strongly convinced of it, It would have left a neutral feedback to him or no feedback at all.


However, after looking at OP trust feedback page, I found another member - ABitNut (uid: 331100) - who left him referenced -ve trust feedback over similar trades.


If OP cares over -ve trust feedback he should politely ask Vod & ABitNut to revise their feedbacks.

Are we going to do this again? People, uh.
No he is not abusing anything. This being legal or not, he has the right to leave negative feedback if he sees it fit. He's actually one of the rare members that helps identify scammers and whatnot.

Theymos nor anyone from the stuff does not moderate the trust system. If you've sent him a PM because of this, no wonder that you got no reply. Anyhow when sending him a message, it takes a long time for a reply to come, if ever.