Topic: [Vod] I need an explanation from him (Read 4590 times)

Yeah, someone hits you and you call the police saying they raped you.  Natural reaction.

Lock your thread and I'll remove the negative trust.

I understand.  When you feel you've been wronged, you will respond by lying to make the other person look bad.   

What do you mean by IF you are wrong about me?

Who told you I was paid to leave you negative trust?
Who told you I was running a competing company selling MSDN keys?

Or did you just make that up to make me look like a scammer?

Then stop with the negative trust saying I'm running a competing business and was paid to leave you negative trust.  You must be a very spoiled child who cries until he gets his way.   

Thank you for doing the right and legal thing.

I have no problem removing the negative trust, but I do have an issue with you telling people that

1) I received money to leave you negative trust
2) I am running a competing business selling MS keys

Why are you telling people these lies?

This thread is still open.


what I can see is Microsoft will ban those keys in the near future when found out, hence you are future scamming people   If you still want to sell products (digital goods) find a legal Product to resell. Good luck 

The important thing symantec, have you stopped selling Microsoft keys?

I am not here for spam activity and posts. Claiming that is ridiculous. Your negative feedback on me is not only false it is also hypocritical. You have a problem with me because you don't agree with me leaving feedback on you while I never let you scam me, yet you think it's alright to do the same to me. Like I said before, if you feel that I am a spammer then report me to a moderator.

I'm not going to respond to your ridiculous and baseless accusations that I'm spamming for activity and post anymore.



This is funny. Just because you basically ratted out some sellers to me (Hey, why you leave me -ve feedback and not x, y and z?!) you assume that all other sellers would stoop to the same low level and pay Vod to leave feedback on their competition? Your own (lack of) morality is showing yet again.

Sorry, I did not.  I won't repeat myself again, and if you keep lying, I'll simply put you on ignore.   

Yes, I've seen this wall of text already.

Why do you think I've received money for leaving negative trust?  I have not.

I did not.  Why do you believe this?

I think you are confusing strike-through (S) with underline (U).  It's harder to read strike-through.

Why did you copy ajw7989's post?

So you think it is OK to steal from people as long as you have no complaints from the people you sell the stolen goods to?  How do you live with yourself trafficking in stolen goods?

Also, the second feedback you left against me is a lie.  I have not received any money from anyone nor do I have a competing business. 

I refute your claim that I am spamming for activity. If you feel my posts are spam then you can report them. In addition I do not have any special power in this forum to use and I do not want to stop all transactions. All I am trying to do is make it clear that these keys are not legit.

Long story short. You can't win against Vod. If you don't do what he say hes red trust is gonna stay. If you still want to sell your keys your best option is just write it fair and square in your opening post (of your selling thread) what is this red trust and who gave it to you. People will understand. Good luck.

I will not produce them for you. It's obvious that in most countries you *will* be convicted. I am not a lawyer and I am not going to spend time doing a lawyers job to explain you the exact legality of everything unless you pay me a good lawyers fee to do so.

It is a cost-benefit consideration. Right now it costs Microsoft more to chase these people than it would gain them. That doesn't make it legal. It is simple indeed.

Your definition of scammer is naive and narrow.

Scam:
There are VICTIMS. There are even victims making COMPLAINTS, though that's not relevant. Denying this shows your closing your eyes to facts.

And the end result is that you don't trust Vod, isn't it? Fair enough. This is not the thread to elaborate on that more.

Tecshare will have you believe that I left him negative feedback for posting lies about me BEFORE he started posting lies about me.

Seeing the future - that makes me some kind of Vod, doesn't it?   

What courts? I asked you for statutory law backing up your claims of "enabling piracy" and breaking a TOS contract, but you seem to be unable to produce them. Yet you sit there talking about courts in this hyperbolic manner as if Microsoft really cares. If they did they wouldn't be available. Simple as that. A scammer is someone who steals from someone they are purportedly engaging in trade with. Just because you find the sellers activities to be morally objectional as a 3rd party does NOT make them a scammer. If they were ACTUALLY scamming, there would be VICTIMS making COMPLAINTS, which are glaringly absent in this situation. People seem to want the product and have kept returning for more. Assumptions about refunds are nothing more than that, assumptions. Vod doesn't have magical psychic abilities from his day long torrents of negative rating people, and without some sort of due process or structure then wtf is the point of ANY of this?


I had no problem with VOD until he initially left me a negative trust rating for openly discussing his abusive behavior towards other users and pointing out it is an example of how some users get preferential treatment on the forum to abuse the rules freely, but others are punished for the most minor single incidents.

His original abuse of the default trust directed at me in an attempt to silence my discussion of his abusive behavior: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/vod-should-be-removed-from-default-trust-for-systematic-abuse-of-his-position-915823

When you occupy a position on the default trust there are additional standards that the administrator, staff, and mods have applied to such a position repeatedly in the past. Several people have been removed from the default trust for MUCH less than what Vod has been up to. People have been removed for of using the default trust in EXACTLY the way Vod is using it.

Why is it that Vod is allowed to use the default trust as he pleases over and over because "trust is not moderated", but other users are removed for doing this ONCE? The trust ratings say right in the description that it is to be used if you "believe the person is a scammer", his personal opinion of me is not an appropriate use especially considering his position on the default trust. Also my extensive history here as a legitimate trader also proves any claims of me being a scammer to be a complete fabrication. His claim is that I "lied" about him (which is not scamming BTW), he has no reference for it, and he can't even tell me what I said that was a lie. The trust system has just become a series of tools to protect insiders and scammers while extorting anyone else who tries to use it in any way that they don't agree with. Vod has no business being on the default trust, or in any position of authority.

He is retarded. There is nothing we can do about it. He is throwing shit around using his "power" with a broken trust system.

Hopefully that obesite will die soon and forum will be relaxed.

I'll let the courts decide on the legality of running a network to enable pirated software. I'm sure they won't punish it as badly as say, running a network to enable selling drugs. Labeling these "sellers" as scammer is spot on. What they're selling is not only worthless (a key that you're not allowed to use / if you use it you're pirating software and very likely breaking the law). The assumption that symantec is not going to refund is a based on Vod's experience and symantecs behaviour. While it cannot be asserted until it happens, I am fairly confident that assumption is spot on.


I am sorry if I misread that. However, it is still how trust works. You and Vod have a spat for ages, so it's only logical that Vod doesn't trust him. I reckon you wouldn't do business with Vod either, though you choose not to publish your distrust in Vod's feedback.

You skipped over the parts that were incorrect such as the keys being "illegal" and labeling the retailers scammers. Also, he ASSUMES that Symantec will not issue refunds, he could not possibly know this.


You are confused. Please read again. This is a reference to the negative trust rating Vod has now left me for daring to challenge him on this subject in yet another lame attempt to try to silence people who are critical of him by further abusing his position on the default trust.

Ok, let's do some group reading of the feedback Vod left for symantec.


That's how it works though. Vod doesn't trust symantec because symantec is involved in software piracy. Symantec is screwing over their customers by making them believe they get a lifetime, guaranteed licence while all they get is as-is, guaranteed to fail product key unless symantec renews their MSDN subscription, which is highly unlikely.

Damn, Vod has got all the sellers he could find this time.

All the sellers selling those keys that I see, are all marked red by Vod.

I wonder if vod's only doing this for his "Financial interest in Microsoft" 

Well, maybe Vod is right, the keys are much cheaper than legal ones, How about making a call to Satya Nadella or MircroSoft service and asking whether these keys is legal or not?

I think the negative trusts (that vod left) are to be considered as "working" and the sellers shouldn't stop their activities (if they think that they are "legit"). No one can remove these negative trusts, only Vod and remember the trust system is not moderated

This was my opinion, thanks for the attention.

This is perfect proof for Vod abusing his powers. Down with the Villain Vod!

The keys are legitimately obtained. Selling them is not a crime. Selling them is not against forum rules. Downloading software may be criminal, but that is not the responsibility of the seller, the forum, or anyone else but the one downloading the software. Also this is NOT universally illegal in all jurisdictions. Additionally, Windows doesn't just deactivate operating systems linked to invalid registration keys, it just makes a popup that naggs you to get a licensed copy.

Vod made claims about criminal activity and scamming that are speculative at best, and applied this speculation en-mass upon users doing nothing but attempting to provide customers with a product they clearly want. If he wanted to warn people he could have easily done so with neutral ratings, but then he would have any fun subjugating people that way now would he?


Yep. Funny how negatives seem to come out for anyone who is critical of his behavior. Just another demonstration of his disregard for his position on the default trust. Notice there is no reference and he refuses to actually quote any supposed lies he says I made about him. In short the negative rating is for being openly critical of his abusive behavior.  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10848601

Vod have changed his neutral feedback to a negative one on TECSHARE's trust. I don't get how TECSHARE is untrustworthy as a result of that though. 

The keys that to symantec is selling are not legit. They do come from MSDN. Whether they work to activate a product or not is not really relevant. Even if they do activate the product they do not grant you a licence to use the product. Using the product without a licence means you're liable for software piracy. It also means that the product key can be cancelled at any time.

Vod's feedback seems spot on. Buyer beware. And symantec, don't play dumb. You know you're breaking the rules.

symantec, Vod's rating shouldn't affect your sales. If you're honest with people and show no intention to scam they're gonna buy from you eventually.

Why not do this then. Add a note to your thread that says "Not responsible if sometime in the future the key may become invalid. I'll give 1 month of Warranty and if no issues occur within the 1 month then no refund can be given. If they are a issue arise in the month, btc will be refunded."

As long as you hold true to your word then the feedback should be updated. Whether it is or not is a different situtation. From the looks of it, Vod don't want you selling the keys. Someone stated earlier that he works for Microsoft in a different thread, but I don't know nor care. But one things for sure, he clearly has a big ego.

Look buddy, I was defending you, you really should understand what people are saying before attacking them. As far as I know, there is no evidence he was receiving money from other sellers, he works for Microsoft - that is the only reason he wants NO ONE selling MSDN keys.

So I only skimmed the first page and this has probably been brought up before, but Vod seems to have a serious conflict of interest at play here, if he is directly or indirectly employed by Microsoft. Plenty of stuff in the digital goods section falls under the classification of "shady" but this guy actively targeting anything Microsoft related. Now, I respect Vod and he's done a lot of good for these boards, but this is no more "illegal" than half the other stuff in there which are given a free pass. You're not helping the board, you're just helping your employer in this situation.

Hi there,

I'm one of the MS key sellers and of course we are all bummed by the negative trust Vod gave us. We are doing something that is morally wrong, but the people that browse this website know what they are doing and are accepting certain risks (not saying I don't refund/scam or whatever). The things we do can't be justified by saying other 'illegal/morally incorrect' businesses are allowed on this forum. We know what we are doing and so do our customers.

Still, I totally agree with Vod's opinion of us, I do the same thing with other threads. Apparently Vod uses his power on this forum to express his opinion and I respect that. The only thing I'm asking you though, is if you are going to fight our 'illegal/morally incorrect' business, you should fight them all.

Have a nice day,

Jake

The seller is not selling the software itself, only a LEGALLY OBTAINED registration key. This is a BIG DIFFERENCE, and no his trust rating is not appropriate. He simply evoked the criminal aspect of this so he could manipulate the staff into doing his extorting for him because criminal activity is not allowed on the forum. This is very clearly 100% a TOS violation, and a CIVIL case at best NOT A CRIMINAL CASE.

Will Vod be removed from default trust? The suspense continues.     

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10847419

@Muhammed Zakir

We get many "immoral" things that are allowed to be sold or marketed through this forum. While against Microsoft's TOS, Vod shouldn't leave negative feedback to sellers just because he thinks it's right to do so. What they did was not disallowed to be done in the forum. Maybe Vod could talk with Theymos and Badbear about potential new rules instead of handing out negative trust ratings. His ratings are particularly harmful as long as he's in the default trust.

Please read. Vod's feedback is appropriate IMHO.

Obviously the OP's English is not that great. I don't think he understood that you were basically questioning VOD's behavior and became defensive by default. After all, I personally don't blame him, does anyone ever really back anyone else up around here or is it usually more like a lottery for a weekly witch burning?

Alright, relax. I'm just getting my thoughts out here while trying to help. Maybe Vod will reconsider if he hears the opinion of some other forum members as well.

May I ask why you kept doing this to your sentences?

Don't you understand, VOD has proclaimed himself dictator of what is good an bad on this site. Obey him or else! So sayeth the master.

I don't see where the problem is. Microsoft does little to nothing for keys distributed from unauthorised resellers or even illegally. They never de-activate keys. Big part of their profits come from software licencing to businesses. I've installed cracked versions of windows seven on all my family's computers and they've had no problems what so ever. Cracked versions of windows receive free updates in the same way that a copy purchased from an authorised reseller would do. That's how it worked from the time windows had online updates and that how it's going to be for windows 10.

Piracy might be immoral but it's not prosecuted, although illegal (at least that's what's like in most of the world). The receiving party is almost never on the wrong side of the law. Microsoft also doesn't go after pirates and people that distribute their software products without authorisation. At least not for those that do it in a small scale. So Vod, my suggestion is that you should tone it down a little bit. You're not Microsoft's guard dog are you? If such posts are allowed don't make people that post em have a bad time.

Idk about that but read my other post where I quoted a guy saying that.

It is not illegal, it is against the Microsoft terms of service. That is a big difference.

Due to ABitNot pointing out that MSDN keys are "illegal" he created problem for every MSDN seller.

Why did you cross out all your points? Lol


Ha, it's already sunday here in australia
I just love people's sense of humour sometimes

EDIT: Wow, symantec. I couldn't believe you changed your signature to this thread's link!

No worries.  I'll listen for you tomorrow in church. 

I do not understand what you're trying to say... Are you saying you never blocked a key?

And what do you mean by fair and impartial?

Also god Vod(Sorry autocorrect) has neg trusted every other seller of those keys so he's not receiving money from other sellers.

Dude, I'm just giving you a second chance.

Stop selling product keys immediately, and in one month I will remove the negative trust.

That's all I can offer.     Good luck to you.

He is just warning people that in the future your keys would be banned, and that happening is very probable.

Also I see you previously denied that you didn't sell those keys but now you're saying you do?

So I take it you will continue to scam the Microsoft keys?   If so, don't come complaining later about your negative trust.  

I don't think you get what Vod is saying: Selling this key is illegal and even if you deliver it to the customers, Microsoft has every right to ban those things that you sold to your customers.

Which is scamming.

symantec, it comes down to this.

Do you want to stop scamming people and have you negative trust removed?  Or would you rather continue to scam as much as you can with a negative rating?  It's your choice, my friend.

Your keys might be working yes, But it's not legal anymore as Vod said, that's the point.
Since your account are in red, the only choice you have is to do as Vod said, he stated the situation clearly.

That is true, but I'm slightly less concerned with the legality of the keys as I am with the fact that one day everyone who has purchased will wake up and find their keys invalidated - i.e. they will have been SCAMMED.

Uhh I can't find the post where Vod said that he is a qualified Microsoft software engineer or something, but that's why he's giving you negative trust. Selling those keys are illegal and apparently a crime under federal laws(Quoted from someone, will try to find the source)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-801840

You clearly state you sell Microsoft keys.  This is a SCAM, since as soon as your stolen/hacked MSDN subscription expires (are you going to pay to renew it?), all the keys you have sold will become invalid.

I give one chance to remove negative feedback.  Read my signature, clearly make it known you are not selling product keys, and in a month I will remove the negative feedback.  If you choose to continue selling scammy products, do not contact me in the future to remove negative feedback.  You will have to work to gain positive feedback from good trades with trusted members.

It's illegal to sell MSDN keys I think, simple explanation.

And I think Vod works in Microsoft...

Hello! everyone and Vod.

I'm not dealing with him anything here and why would you leave me a negative feedback ?

I never once scam any member of this forum, why do you say me scam they're ?

I would like an explanation from you ?

PS: My english is not good and hope everyone understands

[Trust]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=382389

[TOPPIC]: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-801840