Topic: VOD should be removed from default trust for systematic abuse of his position - page 13. (Read 55257 times)

That is because he knows he is on thin ice after doxing and reporting OGNasty to the IRS. The only thing that ever keeps Vod in check is the community penalizing him for going too far. If this negative reinforcement wasn't there he would be lording over as many people as he could manage with his obsessive malignant abuse. This is demonstrated by the fact any time he goes too far, he says he is sorry, hides for a week or two, then returns and repeats the same abusive behavior again once the pressure on him has died down. He has no ability for self regulation, the only regulation he responds to is the kind where he suffers repercussions.

This is an incredibly strange take on the situation.

The neg was either valid or it was invalid. There is no question that giving a neg or red mark to a member with a flawless 8 year long trading history devalues the trust system.

His increased level of interest or effort employed that you speculate is due to self preservation is irrelevant and a red herring.

I do not believe it is viable to expect admin intervention for each default trust member with a personal grudge. So manual removal is a temporary patch.

Removal of VOD is not going to make much difference when considering the long term benefits of this forum.

I would recommend leaving aside personal grievances and focus upon having the old tagging system removed.

Remove the opportunity to abuse from the trust system and set the entire forum free from abuse such as you have experienced.

If you have serious examples of abuse / failures of the red tagging system they should be compiled and arranged to present a persuasive case to theymos. There is an exceedingly strong case to abolish it.

VOD does not appear to be a significant abuser when compared to some other members. He seems far less active than in previous years.

Again, I appreciate you taking the time to comment. So far the vast majority of people commenting are just attempting to join the dog pile and aren't interested in any critical examination of the situation. I am sure more people see this rating is garbage but are unwilling to speak publicly about it for fear of retribution, exactly like is being perpetrated against me here. That is why your voice matters more here because most of the rest of the forum either doesn't care or is a jellyfish.

No one thinks you are trying to tell Vod what to do, but you are allowed to form your own opinions and speak about them. Normally I would be throwing some more insults around (its fun), but I am refraining to demonstrate that is a personal choice and not an uncontrolled compulsion. Regarding the accusations of manipulating the trust list, can you tell me if you can find substantiation for his claims anywhere that Vod or Nullius have stated? They both swear up and down they have but when confronted act as if they are above explaining it "again".

Regarding the Turkish users, like all sections they have certain users that shouldn't have power in the trust system. Unfortunately I do rank wolwoo among them. Not because I have seen him do anything exceptionally bad, but his inability to do much more than throw insults around demonstrates to me he shouldn't be in the default trust list. This may just be because of a lack of English skills, but it doesn't really acheive much regardless. I am pretty sure wolwoo was never one of my inclusions.

Of course if anyone is concerned about any of my inclusions they can message me about it to discuss it. Simply jumping right to assuming I am trying to manipulate the trust list is a factor of implicit animus, as Nutilduh, Vod and others are well documented to have towards me. It is simply being used as a tool of retribution rather than a legitimate attempt at preserving the trust system's integrity. Also, there are a small group of users who have control over the trust list currently.

It should also be taken into account that expanding the default trust list is explicitly diluting their unilateral control over it, which was the whole point of the trust system changes. I believe this to be another large factor in the accusation against me. Not that I was doing anything wrong, but that what I was doing doesn't serve them personally in their goal to keep personal control over the default trust for their little in group regardless of who is technically qualified to join. Again, thanks for taking the time to comment and review this information. It speaks a lot for your character. The shrieking harpies and the the deafening silence of the rest of the jellyfish population also speaks volumes.

Most people would. That’s why there are very few active members of this community left who have actually built anything real using Bitcoin. Compiling forum stats is what passes for building on Bitcoin here these days. It’s actually embarrassing to be honest.

For obvious reasons stated before: 
I am not trying to get in the middle but I am still a little unclear on answered questions in previous replies (I was very clear about my unsure facts) so I really can't make any final comments past this echo:


What I see is a trust system that is not exactly well understood by everyone, but I have already made it clear what I think it is and how it is to be used.   

By this measure alone: VOD is not using it correctly as His red flag doesn't seem to fit that criteria I outlined in an earlier post which I could be personally mistaken of....     Since I have never seen or heard of TEC misleading people to/or attempting/succeeding in ripping them off....  I do not see the reasoning being valid given my understanding.

Shit, I could be dead nuts on, or I could be dead wrong.  I personally don't feel like I am wrong.... but feelings aren't facts;  the are actually emotions invented in a land of uncertainty.


If the site is to resume/continue its previous stance/meta toward both parties:  there is nothing I can say or do to change this past the things I already have..... I would be echoing my words into an abyss; and adding more useless posts to this thread;  and I am trying to keep all of mine worthwhile.  The only comment I would have is that the trust system is not being used properly and is exacerbating these exact kinds of situations.  I am nowhere near in a position to tell VOD that they can or can't make his/her own accusations;  but that doesn't mean I won't sit as an arbiter and truth-seeker if there is complaints of unfairness and injustice.


TEC;  you are seriously keeping a cool head in all of this I commend it given some of the rough back and forth we (and others) have had before.   
If I were in your situation, I would have just walked away years ago as Its how I deal with insanity: 
I distance myself from it.   
It takes a lot to put up with it.



Now Ill be blatantly honest here:

There is a part of my brain that still tells me to be mindful of the fact that there was a bunch of shit going around about banned members being on DT;  and the turkish section, and etc etc etc...    Most likely pure coincidence, but I don't discount things that are very real possibilities.

If you are curious about why I am thinking this way:  look no further than my post history surrounding my interactions with Woolwoo. (an extremely sketch behaving individual that's word selections when responding to me; make me distrust him greatly)

Wait, I thought we were talking about Vod's trust abuse, and your accusation that I wouldn't argue the same for others. Funny now that that strategy backfired you want to move on to some 5 year old bullshit, almost like you are here to pursue a vendetta rather than address any of the facts of the matter. It is interesting to note you also recently left me this neutral rating:

TwitchySeal   2020-02-07   "Reference   Hasn't scammed anyone that I'm aware of, but has proven he does not care whether the accusations he makes of others are accurate or not in addition to a history of abusing the Trust system."

Could you be pursuing your own personal vendetta because of your lack of tolerance of people with different political ideologies than you, using forum politics as an avenue of attack by supporting baseless accusations?

Back to the topic at hand, how about you? Do you care to quote anywhere where Vod or Nullius substantiated any of their frivolous negative ratings against me with facts? They swear up and down they have but they have trouble quoting it for some reason. Maybe you can help them.

I think Quickseller is the one who let it go.  The negs are still there, but he let it go.

I think you should do the same thing.

It seems like you've been going for 5+ years, starting with accusing Theymos of extorting you and adding DT features just so that he could punish you.  It's all in your head.  That didn't happen.  You need to let it go.

Yes, lets look at this objectively. What I see when I look at this objectively, is this is retribution BECAUSE I speak out against abuse of others. I regularly make efforts to defend people I don't even know from trust system abuse. One example recently, I defended Quickseller when he was being mobbed, even thought I don't like him and he has harassed me for years at a time in the past. What do you know? People seemed to listen and let it go! Shocking.

I realize you are only following me around as an extension of harassing me because you don't agree with my views in Politics & Society, so you wouldn't notice this. Regardless the claim I don't speak up for others is patently false in spite of the joy you get from attempting to perpetuate falsehoods about me because you simply can't tolerate people with ideas you don't agree with.

Try to look at the situation objectively.

If Vod never negged you, but he negged someone you didn't like for the exact same reason (like me, for example), would you be as outraged?

The answer is no.

You aren't upset because the system is unfair or rigged.  You're upset because you got negged and booted from DT1.  This is about you.  You feel like a victim, and all these threads are just your way of retaliating.  But you're just making it worse for yourself.

As I said from the very first post of this OP, there is another set of rules for Vod on this forum and he is allowed to abuse people freely on a regular basis, using the forum's systems as his personal weapon, something others are punished harshly for. This is why I have been advocating so vocally for "rule of law", IE a standard of evidence of theft, violation of contractual agreement, or violation of applicable laws, before rating, because rule of law is what protects the rights of the individual. For example the USA is a republic, because it preserves the right of the individual within a Democracy. In a pure democracy, all you have is pure mob "justice", and it is a popularity contest not a matter of fact. What this forum is, is mob justice with no protection for the individual. The mob simply votes the individuals rights away. I really don't think this is what Theymos intended even if it is what resulted.

I have to ask you, in your reviews of any of this material, were you able to find substantiation to ANY of Vod's ratings against me? I know for a fact several users don't agree with his behavior, they simply won't speak up for fear of being the next target of Vod and people like Vod. Anyone with any reputation is too fearful to lose it to speak out, anyone without one is easily dismissed. That said, it makes your participation here more important as the rest of the forum is more concerned with their own personal interests.

His lack of substantiation is important, because it is a pattern he has been exhibiting for years that clearly demonstrates his motivations are not to protect people from fraud, but to use the system to serve his own personal vendettas. I have been advocating people exclude Vod from the default trust for his years long pattern of disregarding the rules of the forum trust to fight his petty squabbles, but this forum seems more interested in who is popular and protecting their own ass than the actual viability of the forums systems. After all, if people are only punished by rules, and not protected by them, historically what happens to those systems of governments? They fail. Horribly and spectacularly.

In my mind:  I do not know;  then again, my words don't carry any "weight" past what they are....   I only think they are as honest and clear as they can be.

Theymos created/arbitrated the rules and procedures.....  yes?  This seems pretty solid from a logical standpoint.

Theymos created the new trust system to help separate himself from arbitration type things.... (This is the gist of what I remember reading in his thread, correct me if I am wrong)

So... Assuming my statement in the sentence above is correct, where do we go from here since the new system was created for him to release those powers to the trusted among us?

Don't make a fool of yourself Vod, your trust ratings on TECSHARE doesn't involve any real trading incidences or indicates an overall financial loss to the community. I think reconsidering it would be an friendly step around. You are just following him like CH use to follow users around.

Do you have any new information, for example any substantiation to your negative ratings whatsoever? You feel free to negative rate me and then run away not substantiating your claims, but I don't think that is going to work out as well as you think it will.

You are a troll.  Unless you have any new information...

The community includes me.  I'm happy.  

Yep, that was 5 years ago Vod, here you are still trying to ride that original demonization wave. He doesn't just not include you, he explicitly excludes you. That is explicitly him saying he doesn't think you use the trust system in valid ways.

You are the one who brought Theymos's opinions into this. Sorry if that kind of backfired on you, but that is usually how your baseless attacks end up. Then you feign remorse and start doing all the same shit again in a few weeks.

Theymos has stated you do not belong anywhere near DT.  I don't think he has ever stated that about me.

He has done the honorable thing and removed himself as DT overseer.  That is why he doesn't exclude you or include me anymore - he knows the community will do the right thing. 

But that isn't the "staus quo". This is exactly why Theymos made the trust system more decentralized, so he is not the ultimate arbiter of every little thing. Still, lets explore this avenue of reasoning...

You say if Theymos is of the opinion I shouldn't be on default trust, then Vod's claim is some how correct? First of all, that doesn't substantiate any of Vod's claims that is just the logical fallacy known as "appeal to authority".

I understand your reasoning, but that is now how the system is supposed to operate. Even assuming you do believe that is how the system is designed to operate, Theymos removed his exclusion of me, what, like a year ago or something, I think. Vod is currently excluded by Theymos. If Theymos is the ultimate arbiter of truth in your mind, he clearly is at least indifferent to my participation in the trust system, and judged Vod's use of it invalid based on his exclusion.

Again, none of this addresses the baseless nature of Vods accusations against me, or his well documented history of abusing the trust system against myself and others on the forum.

I think in simplest forms for the recent neg trust that I analyzed:
If we hold Theymos to be on a pedistal of "my word is law"... then;  TEC can not be on DT.

It was the easiest way for him to be removed back then, and since things are vastly different on the forum now;   
Assuming the above about theymos is to be held as law:  your action continue that state of status quo by giving him that flag could be interpreted as ok;  even though the flag system itself is to warn people about being scammed, ripped off or mislead (on the same level) by the individual getting the flag.   If I am misinterpreting what the flag system is for;  please correct me now....  but this is how I see it to be used.   My recent red flag was to warn of a developer of a project that has mass investment, only to ignore the investors and produce nothing except losses.    I see this as a reason to give the trust hit... I  admit, I need to go back, and do my own little but more of digging on it as well;  but the facts stood up to him being connected to such a thing.


This is why;   Its not a valid flag "prima face", but it is deemed necessary to return the status quo.    IF the above is not correct... well....   You know my feelings by now I would think.

I'm not sure about the second trust flag;  as I don't think I even looked into it....   I myself removed myself from default trust and only have people added that I have personally done transactions/personal dealings with; or have never steered me wrong.

As an outsider....   Its a tough thing to sort all of this out.   But at least now I know;  and TBH:   I do feel for everyone involved in this.     

Hopefully... something amicable can come around.  It has been nearly 6 years...  The odds are in your favor for things to change for the better.

Who you trust is irrelevant to accusations you make being valid. I know you want this wrapped up before anyone looks too close, I expect another accusation to encourage a topic slide any time now.

I thought I might also add this:

Interesting. You seemed to agree my rating for Armis was valid and my reaction reasonable enough that you would have done the same. Others also reinforce the idea that trust ratings are not moderated and my rating was thus valid, but the trust system has always been an evolving system with constantly changing metrics and rules which aren't written anywhere. In this case I was used as an example and demonized as others were allowed to leave these sorts of ratings regularly which was what lead me to believe the rating was a valid use.

This forums users want to only hold certain people accountable as they excuse others. This is why I have strongly advocated for clear metrics based on observable instances of theft, violation of contractual agreement, or violation of applicable laws for leaving negative ratings. Expecting people to follow arbitrarily enforced and unwritten rules is not only asinine but morally wrong, because there is no way to obey them even if you try. It is just a matter of some one who is popular enough coming along to accuse you.


 
A two months after my criticism of Vod and the double standards he enjoys in that thread:

Vod 16: -0 / +9(9)   2015-01-06  0.00000000    "Constantly posts lies about me in an effort to have me removed from the default trust list. Honest discussion is one thing, but he just posts BS with absolutely no basis.

Not trustworthy."

Your first negative rating on my account, which you were eventually forced to remove because the community judged it invalid.

Seems a lot like you, from the start, simply didn't like me criticizing you and thought that was justification for leaving me a negative rating. Seems unfair I get such a harsh punishment for something once Vod has been doing to me freely for years doesn't it? I thought so too. This in context you can see he is making a point that he can freely abuse the trust system exactly in the way I was punished harshly for as he accuses me for the same, because that is the kind of guy Vod is.

I was thinking exactly this, it wasn't demand, no. I stand corrected.
Then I will correct him. 5 years? I really think he is pissed because he abused trust and got kicked out of DT and he wants to get in again and while some users don't really observe account and they see his post as they are, some other users will point hypocrisy and other things and this is just getting him more and more pissed and one step back from DT.

So this whole thing and drama around him is because he desperately wants to get back in DT, showing very bad judgement in process, doing whatever he needs to do to get in.

It is just sad.

---

I really feel sorry for him. I would have suggested you @Vod to remove -ve ratings but then he is going to lie and accuse you that you removed it because you are trying to silence him, of course, if you don't remove it you are silencing him again    so I won't suggest anything. Drama never ends.

I think I am out of this thread.