Vote for Bitcoinica Leverage Change Proposal - page 2.

byronbb

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

HODL OR DIE

Quote from: notme on January 17, 2012, 11:27:48 PM

Quote from: byronbb on January 17, 2012, 11:24:32 PM

lower max trade to 10BTC and raise leverage to 100:1. You just want gamblers not institutional traders.

if you don't trade on Bitcoinica please leave this discussion to those who do.

I'll rephrase: Lower the maximums to the point where bitcoinica can no longer move market 2$ a day. The purpose of bitcoinica from zhou's perspective is to make money, not deal with endless hassles and react to charges of manipulation and skulduggery. And yes I use bitcoinica to try and earn some money back off my devaluing bitcoins, but am only a small timer.

edit

Well looks like the proposal actually has this effect.

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

My job has become to provide documentation on how Bitcoinica works.

This will include:
-- A basic tutorial of what to expect when pressing the various buttons / placing orders at Bitcoinica.
-- A very basic comparison of Bitcoinica to Forex, pointing out the most basic similarities / dissimilarities.

It might include other things.

What it will NOT include:
-- Professional trading advice
-- Any general information whatsoever on trading Forex (aside from comparing / contrasting it with Bitcoinica).

EDIT: My experience with Bitcoinica and customer service is what makes me suitable for this position.

Eveofwar

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 17, 2012, 11:59:04 PM

Quote from: Eveofwar on January 17, 2012, 11:57:18 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:55:50 PM

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:53:44 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

We can't hide it anyway. If we don't have reserve, we will become a bucket shop if we don't tell our customers to stop buying/selling. So after all the only way is to distribute the trading power evenly to everyone.

I wonder what Forex brokers do when they run out of reserves? Does that happen? I have research to do...
Anyone who knows a lot about Forex, don't hesitate to provide clarity for me on this point.

I thought I just read...Aren't you the one who's going to be writing the documentation for Bitcoinica when it comes to their Forex-based trading ?

LOL. Blind leading the blind.

I mean, I'm all for hiring others to do work for you...but I mean...this just kinda disturbed me a little LOL.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Eveofwar on January 17, 2012, 11:57:18 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:55:50 PM

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:53:44 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

We can't hide it anyway. If we don't have reserve, we will become a bucket shop if we don't tell our customers to stop buying/selling. So after all the only way is to distribute the trading power evenly to everyone.

I wonder what Forex brokers do when they run out of reserves? Does that happen? I have research to do...
Anyone who knows a lot about Forex, don't hesitate to provide clarity for me on this point.

I thought I just read...Aren't you the one who's going to be writing the documentation for Bitcoinica when it comes to their Forex-based trading ?

LOL. Blind leading the blind.

jhajduk

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Almost 4 trillion dollars turns over each day in forex

Todays volume is maybe 2 million?

A lot of people have enough cash to take a bit hit into 2 million dollars of volume.

Nobody has enough money to effect 4 trillion dollars.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:55:50 PM

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:53:44 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

We can't hide it anyway. If we don't have reserve, we will become a bucket shop if we don't tell our customers to stop buying/selling. So after all the only way is to distribute the trading power evenly to everyone.

I wonder what Forex brokers do when they run out of reserves? Does that happen? I have research to do...
Anyone who knows a lot about Forex, don't hesitate to provide clarity for me on this point.

They have access to large, short-term loans.

Eveofwar

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:55:50 PM

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:53:44 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

We can't hide it anyway. If we don't have reserve, we will become a bucket shop if we don't tell our customers to stop buying/selling. So after all the only way is to distribute the trading power evenly to everyone.

I wonder what Forex brokers do when they run out of reserves? Does that happen? I have research to do...
Anyone who knows a lot about Forex, don't hesitate to provide clarity for me on this point.

I thought I just read...Aren't you the one who's going to be writing the documentation for Bitcoinica when it comes to their Forex-based trading ?

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:53:44 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

We can't hide it anyway. If we don't have reserve, we will become a bucket shop if we don't tell our customers to stop buying/selling. So after all the only way is to distribute the trading power evenly to everyone.

I wonder what Forex brokers do when they run out of reserves? Does that happen? I have research to do...
Anyone who knows a lot about Forex, don't hesitate to provide clarity for me on this point.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:52:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree that. Most of our profits come from 2:5 traders and 5:1 traders. Not only 10:1 traders lost a lot themselves during volatile periods, we lost a lot due to market slippage as well.

at least you admit what i've been warning about. i wish you luck.

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 17, 2012, 11:53:24 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

you mean you don't like the Bullseye?

Bullseye == TMI XD

zhoutong

vip

Activity: 490

Merit: 502

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

We can't hide it anyway. If we don't have reserve, we will become a bucket shop if we don't tell our customers to stop buying/selling. So after all the only way is to distribute the trading power evenly to everyone.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Crypt_Current on January 17, 2012, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

you mean you don't like the Bullseye?

zhoutong

vip

Activity: 490

Merit: 502

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree that. Most of our profits come from 2:5 traders and 5:1 traders. Not only 10:1 traders lost a lot themselves during volatile periods, we lost a lot due to market slippage as well.

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

Quote from: jhajduk on January 17, 2012, 11:48:37 PM

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

I agree with this. Zhou, I think this is important -- I understand you want to be as honest as possible, but there is a such thing as being "honest to a fault".

zhoutong

vip

Activity: 490

Merit: 502

Quote from: ArsenShnurkov on January 17, 2012, 11:43:39 PM

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:35:17 PM

Quote from: ArsenShnurkov on January 17, 2012, 11:32:08 PM

Even, if you will go this way, new limits should not affect old orders and positions (because it will be violation of contract).

Active orders may be affected due to decrease of tradable balance (but you're allowed to place a 1000000 BTC order regardless of tradable balance anyway). But existing positions won't be cut off, definitely.

We never do that anyway.

This is not a complete truth. With changing reserve level you will increase zhoutong price for existing long positions,
and this may lead to premature liquidation of these existing positions
(and to losses which should not occur under current reserve level).

No. It's the same 4%. I won't change.

jhajduk

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

I think more important than anything is that the asterisk goes away. It gives away to much information, and restricts the market.

What happened today is a result of people exploiting this information.

You should keep your customer's positions, and even the aggregate information of their positions, confidential.

If lowering the leverage for large accounts allows you to avoid the asterisk then do it, at least until you build up more reserves.

Crypt_Current

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Shame on everything; regret nothing.

I think the real solution is a combination of disclaimers and customer service. Bitcoinica users control their own leverage -- they make their own wins / losses based on how they gamble. Honestly, they are largely responsible for their own actions on Bitcoinica and cannot be protected from themselves.

That said, the most prudent path for a professional business to take is to provide quality customer service. (apologies, offers of consolation when dissatisfied, etc.)

I am "neutral", but I do not believe Bitcoinica is doomed.

EDIT: I voted "disagree".

ArsenShnurkov

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:35:17 PM

Quote from: ArsenShnurkov on January 17, 2012, 11:32:08 PM

Even, if you will go this way, new limits should not affect old orders and positions (because it will be violation of contract).

Active orders may be affected due to decrease of tradable balance (but you're allowed to place a 1000000 BTC order regardless of tradable balance anyway). But existing positions won't be cut off, definitely.

We never do that anyway.

This is not a complete truth. With changing reserve level you will increase zhoutong price for existing long positions,
and this may lead to premature liquidation of these existing positions
(and to losses which should not occur under current reserve level).

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: teflone on January 17, 2012, 11:31:28 PM

Quote from: notme on January 17, 2012, 11:21:15 PM

Liquidations happen because irrational people overleverage. There is a big warning about this when they sign up. I was long 100 BTC during the drop, but I still had enough margin to buy 50@$5.15 before it recovered. I'm back in the green already.

If you don't like bitcoinica, fine, but let those of us who use it communicate with Zhoutong instead of slinging insults.

Im not slinging insults, I made a modest 3 bitcoins from this mess, no complaints..

But I see a bigger issue here, you should open your eyes..

My eyes are open, thanks.... I understand quite well how bitcoinica works. If you don't like it don't use it. I anticipated the possibility of a huge squeeze, and traded accordingly. Others overextended themselves and lost big. Anyway, this is off topic, so if you feel the need to respond, please PM me.

zhoutong

vip

Activity: 490

Merit: 502

Quote from: ArsenShnurkov on January 17, 2012, 11:32:08 PM

Quote from: zhoutong on January 17, 2012, 11:29:10 PM

Big clients are using the reserves all the time, and it's definitely unfair if we don't have the money to back their trading potential. If just 2% of the customers were limited to 2.5:1 we wouldn't have to see the asterisk.

Even, if you will go this way, new limits should not affect old orders and positions (because it will be violation of contract).

Active orders may be affected due to decrease of tradable balance (but you're allowed to place a 1000000 BTC order regardless of tradable balance anyway). But existing positions won't be cut off, definitely.

We never do that anyway.

Topic: Vote for Bitcoinica Leverage Change Proposal - page 2. (Read 4498 times)