Topic: [VRC] | VeriCoin | POS-NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS | SuperNET Core - page 2. (Read 38523 times)

Thanks for explaining, it is much appreciated!

I doubt any banks will use the BTC blockchain for managing financial transactions. One of the main unique selling points of traditional bank services over crypto currency network transactions is the privacy, which is simply cannot be guaranteed using the BTC blockchain. Customers don't care if the bank having knowledge about the transactions, moreover for regulatory reasons the bank must associate the transactions with customers' identities, but the customers won't accept if the transactions are stored and visible in the public blockchain. From customer viewpoint it is unacceptable if the transaction information will be exposed to others than the bank and law enforcement. The mixing services also won't be solutions, because law enforcement and authorities must have access to the transaction details, and mixing service or anonymity algorithms by definition denies such access.
You would have to design a system that addresses
a) privacy
b) traceability
c) auditability

In the meantime, to comply with money laundering regulations you would still have to associate the customer's identity with the transaction.

That means you will end up with the blockchain version of an Oracle or MS SQL database terms of data structure (to store everything what a bank must store such as customer names, address, identity documents, etc.). Would such semi-public blockchain save money for the banks? Not much as most of them would still store the blockchain in a database to serve the customers with light wallets - which will requires the very same infrastructure as the current one to address high availability and scalability.

Anyway, innovation is always good fun, so I understand you are keen to move forward the project :-))) and good luck with that.

Sure. By public permissionless systems what I mean is the Bitcoin blockchain format.  The data and access to the network is public and unrestricted, we are working on a identity system through pseudonyms (like twitter for instance) for VeriCoin address identification and usability.  By permissioned systems I mean private blockchains that require authentication and true identity or login credentials associated with a true identity.  These systems will be the first mainstream step towards a bitcoin-like blockchain but are vulnerable to hacking and thus more costly.  If a blockchain is used by a bank privately it can save them some costs but the most costly security measures are still required.  Smaller banks or banking 2.0 will implement a BTC-like blockchain and they will begin to out-compete the traditional banking systems due to lack of costs.  This will bring the public blockchain technology mainstream.  If BTC has the biggest hashrate (distributed security) at that time it will be used by many and the banking 2.0 startups will likely do exchanging in BTC.  The traditional banking systems will take longer to move beyond permissioned or login based blockchain technologies because their entire infrastructure is built on top of this paradigm, it will only happen when their survival is at risk due to their excessive costs relative to the public systems.  I hope this is a more clear depiction of what I think will unfold over the next few years on this.  VeriCoin is building an infrastructure that will be able to enable, support and lead the banking 2.0 technology 'revolution'.

Thanks for the update. I think there are still users, potentially investors out there who are interested in Vericoin and see potential in the team, so it is great to hear some updates sometimes from you.

Terms of the identity and protocol matters, we are having lots of discussion about these issues in the economy and other threads of this forum. Could you explain please briefly what are the permissioned system and pseudonymous public system in this context? Of course you can explain in more details if you have time - I am sure it would be appreciated by many -, but even a brief explanation would be very useful to understand what are the main attributes of a public permissionless system. Even in bullet points would be great to get some info to understand the basic idea and what are you up to.

We are still working on significant things more details will come in 2.0 whitepaper.  This release will be biggest innovation since the release of VeriCoin itself.  We opted not to go down the identity road for one primary reason.  If you require identity, you also must require a permissioned system, if you require a permissioned system you re-enter the security cat and mouse game and lose all the efficiencies of pseudonymous public systems.  We will be addressing identity in a pseudonymous way but not true identity.  The permissioned systems will be the way the banks handle the blockchain initially, however they will quickly realize beyond backend efficiencies they cannot compete with the efficiencies of pseudonymous permissionless systems.  At this point the banking industry will be disrupted, but likely not until the smaller more adventurous banks utilize this public permissionless system without having to fire most of their employees and they end up out-competing the traditional banking system.  However this all will take some time.  We will be building on the public, permissionless system and will have significant infrastrucutre in place when this disruption takes place.

I am not sure what was that 2nd attempt, last time I heard from them it was the PoS which of course means absolutely nothing, but at least it was an attempt in innovation and well done for that.

I think Vericoin still have an opportunity to be the next crypto that could be attractive for the general public (but of course the time is running out quickly). Bitshare realized this opportunity with Identabit. Now a well known crypto developer Dan Larimer of Bitshare basically implements what we have suggested to Vericoin a year ago: use the personal profile of the DEVs to create a currency that complies with laws and regulations. We said, fuck the dark net, fuck anonymity, in order to reach out to the public (which was the original theme of Vericoin) the digital currency will have to comply with regulations, therefore must have a public face for the coin - which Vericoin is having from the beginning. For some unknown reason the devs don't do this, however here and there I can hear that basically this will be the end goal. Vericion still in the position to reach out to the public using the profile of the DEVs as the public face of the operation, but of course it is more difficult than it was a year ago

I don't blame the DEVs for not pushing harder. The whole digital currency movement is in serious trouble. The DEVs don't have income from this (though probably Patrick Nosker and a few others around the project had pocketed a lot) so of course they get on with their carrier instead of working on a digital currency.

I'm wondering this too this shocking 2nd attempt was awful I felt the original vericoin had some promising features and philosophy

Any news from the old, good Vericoin project? What about Supernet and the rest of plans?

It's quite depressing to see that the VRC developers are trying and still around, there is a community that more or less supports their effort, still the result is very minimal and Vericoin's market cap is the 45th.

The price and volume indicate the Devs haven't rolled out that killer, real world application idea yet. Until today it was a very low volume on the exchanges, and even the today 4 BTC on Bittrex isn't really a massive volume.

Logic and common sense dictates that because of the good attributes of the tech vs FIAT transactions crypto should win, but I am not sure it will happen. All text books suggested 50-60 years ago that by now electric cars will be the norm. The tech has been there for very long, but it still it hasn't happened yet.

Probably it is a good idea to be proactive and don't wait for the digital currency revolution which may never happen, and find the application yourself as you said you will.  Outside of this bagholders' cave at the other forum you have a supportive community and despite they are absolutely useless in taking the coin to the next level they might will be useful to promote your idea and the application whatever it will be. You have worked hard to build that community, probably it is a good idea to make a use of it.

Thanks, I will.

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I think these are good points.  I do also think at this point it is time to partner with and/or enable some needed service or product etc.  Regarding crypto in general I think there is a simple argument to be made regarding it's success in the long term.  It is at least 10x less costly than hiring a "trusted third party" (bank) to do your transaction processing.  All philosophy aside that is enough to win in the long run.  If VeriCoin is positioned uniquely when that time comes alongside needed products or services like you say, VRC will do well.

Is CryptoVPN your business or are you an affiliate? It seems a nice service. Are the servers reliable there? We always need VPN and always searching for a better one.

That's quite true, that could be a very important factor in the selling of VCR.

I rather guess, it is because of the current Bitcoin and Litecoin price rally. Most VRC investors are selling their coins in order to jump on the Bitcoin and Litecoin train.

VRC price is going down. I think people are getting disillusioned from VRC (too), and quite understandably why. Very little happened to the coin in the last 12 months terms of development and nothing happened at all which matters and could increase the price.

Being a technology workforce myself for decades I can understand why you have undertaken that development task, and the PosT makes lots of sense from system stability, usability and security viewpoint. The problem in my opinion is that the reasoning for the need of changes is based on flawed logic. You build the feature assuming that the thing will be used at some stage. Using that logic you could build a Zombie reincarnation timing feature as well to prepare the coin for the Zombie revolution. I don't think people who believe in the the Zombie revolution are more nuts than we digital currency enthusiasts are (because this is obviously the craziest environment on Earth), so that Zombie world might happen as well and your coin will be prepared for that unfortunate Zombie event, which has the same probability than the masses adoption of Vericoin has.

You are a developer and obviously it is not your fault at all where the digital currency movement is heading, or precisely not heading because it seems it is not progressing anywhere, but you as a developer with such a good academic credentials, reputation for (mostly) the good reason and with a relatively active community, you could probably do something about moving things in the right direction.
 
All I try to say, try prioritize and spend your valuable time and energy on sensible tasks. Find a use case for your coin, partner up with some real world application/business that would have a reason to use your coin. Porn, gambling, casino, fitness, some point based reward system or anything that morally is acceptable for you and would find useful your coin within its business (possible by building a service on it, but of course you could build that service with your development resources).

Your community manager frequently talks about how Vericoin will overtake Bitcoin. Apart from the irrational aspect of that expectation, the main question is, overtake in what? Overtake on the path of being irrelevant? Even Bitcoin, after 5 years of struggle and millions of hours development and marketing man hours, used by a handful 100,000 users. It's just a ridiculous low number taking into account the incredible amount of work and media exposure around Bitcoin. With little steps, but step by step you could probably change that irrelevance for Vericoin by start working with real world businesses on something. What is that "something" is the question, but must be something out there in the real world.

Interesting points.  What we did was make the protocol secure, exponentially more secure.  Although this doesn't attract the average user it does prevent the average user from being told there is an inherent flaw in the protocol or something of the like.  The true solution to usage by the regular user is yet to be determined for any crypto, what we have done is make it safe and relatively easy to use.  We are still trying to find new ways to attract the average user, but it's tough.  Once the user base is broad we think the disinflation targeted interest is about as good as you can get for supply stablilty, but we need to get a broad user base that truly stabilizes the price with competing interests.  Bitcoin doesn't really have that yet, per se.  Any ideas on this are welcome.

The lack of practicality and usability are killing digital currencies, so nobody is touching crypto except we the nutcases of this forum, but that's not all - once we can get the concept to potential users, then they must deal with unimaginable nonsenses. I can tell you one which I have just personally gone through.

I have been banging on Bitcoin for years for a friend and finally my digital currency groundwork came to fruition when my friend said, OK, he is willing to accept Bitcoin with his small business. Hurraaah, I said to myself, we are in business, the fucking digital currency revolution starts right here and right now! I don't want to get into what he does and what his business, but his total sales is 40-50 units per day and we calculated he might could get 2 items sell a day in Bitcoin. His unit price is around GBP 80.00, so he could get GBP 160.00, around 1 BTC per day at the beginning, until BTC's adoption rate is so low we can't project more trade. However, and because his main concern was the volatility of BTC, he just can't afford the potentially 20% price swing and losing 20% of his revenue (after all almost that's his all profit margin), he would have to convert the Bitcoin immediately into FIAT and because of the so many fuck-up on exchanges he said he would like to transfer the FIAT, he just simply doesn't trust the exchanges to keep there his FIAT, which concern is well justified, not to mention his small business cash flow is tight so he need the cash. Now, here is the cluster fuck. He signed up to Coinbase, and Coinbase charges GBP 30.00 for a bank transfer which is 20% of his gross intake from the sales, that's almost his profit margin! Then he checked Bitstamp, Coinfloor and others, all charge GBP 30.00 for a single bank transfer. He said no thanks ... that's a fucking nonsense. I said you are fucking right. That's where we are with digital currency right now.