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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 16849. (Read 26712668 times)

hero member
Activity: 1876
Merit: 612
Plant 1xTree for each Satoshi earned!

In the land of the market fundamentals blind, the r0ach with 4000 eyes is king.


R0ach.. u'r like that old man before being kicked out of his home by his kids. He gets desperate and aggressive at the very end when he comes to the realization what is actually happening to him.  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
quote]ya im sure he's confused.  nonetheless your argument can't be it worked in the past so it will work in the future.  
like its not my fault so many of the people that have been arguing you don't know what they are talking about.

As for economics, you are the (anonymint's favorite word) myopic user of the century.  Debt based currencies require infinite growth to not collapse because the interest due is always higher than the principal.  Since demographics have peaked in every nation that matters and energy output has also peaked while EROI is simultaneously collapsing, this means growth is over and all debt based currency is doomed to implode.  The system will be forced to move to a non-debt based currency whether it's issuing debt free paper like the greenback or changing back to metals.  Regardless of what happens, the dollar dies and metals skyrocket in the process.

There is no fucking scenario on this planet in which metals don't skyrocket because they are the Schelling point when debt based currencies blow up.  You can live in some alternate dimension pontificating on some random bullshit Nick Szabo said, but none of that changes this objective reality that will occur.  Stocks are also garbage in this paradigm because they're mostly based around infinite consumer growth as well, but the govt may or may not manipulate that market to whatever number they choose before it all blows up.

There is no black or white. There is no ideal. Not in real world. Its only in our mind and the only way to try to understand a bit of this. Einstein, Nash tried it. The model is not a reality...

But nice discussion  Grin
Its so human

In the land of the market fundamentals blind, the r0ach with 4000 eyes is king.
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
quote]ya im sure he's confused.  nonetheless your argument can't be it worked in the past so it will work in the future.  
like its not my fault so many of the people that have been arguing you don't know what they are talking about.

As for economics, you are the (anonymint's favorite word) myopic user of the century.  Debt based currencies require infinite growth to not collapse because the interest due is always higher than the principal.  Since demographics have peaked in every nation that matters and energy output has also peaked while EROI is simultaneously collapsing, this means growth is over and all debt based currency is doomed to implode.  The system will be forced to move to a non-debt based currency whether it's issuing debt free paper like the greenback or changing back to metals.  Regardless of what happens, the dollar dies and metals skyrocket in the process.

There is no fucking scenario on this planet in which metals don't skyrocket because they are the Schelling point when debt based currencies blow up.  You can live in some alternate dimension pontificating on some random bullshit Nick Szabo said, but none of that changes this objective reality that will occur.  Stocks are also garbage in this paradigm because they're mostly based around infinite consumer growth as well, but the govt may or may not manipulate that market to whatever number they choose before it all blows up.

There is no black or white. There is no ideal. Not in real world. Its only in our mind and the only way to try to understand a bit of this. Einstein, Nash tried it. The model is not a reality...

But nice discussion  Grin
Its so human
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
quote]ya im sure he's confused.  nonetheless your argument can't be it worked in the past so it will work in the future.  
like its not my fault so many of the people that have been arguing you don't know what they are talking about.

As for economics, you are the (anonymint's favorite word) myopic user of the century.  Debt based currencies require infinite growth to not collapse because the interest due is always higher than the principal.  Since demographics have peaked in every nation that matters and energy output has also peaked while EROI is simultaneously collapsing, this means growth is over and all debt based currency is doomed to implode.  The system will be forced to move to a non-debt based currency whether it's issuing debt free paper like the greenback or changing back to metals.  Regardless of what happens, the dollar dies and metals skyrocket in the process.

There is no fucking scenario on this planet in which metals don't skyrocket because they are the Schelling point when debt based currencies blow up.  You can live in some alternate dimension pontificating on some random bullshit Nick Szabo said, but none of that changes this objective reality that will occur.  Stocks are also garbage in this paradigm because they're mostly based around infinite consumer growth as well, but the govt may or may not manipulate that market to whatever number they choose before it all blows up.
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 251


Hey man, I'm not the one posting on an alt-troll acct from being scared.  If what I said about bitcoin and metals fundamentals wasn't true, someone would actually be able to put up some type of argument against it but nobody can. Instead, I got Sidhujag the guy from India, the world capital of gold, trying to troll the forum saying metals are a barbarous relic LOL.  They sell cooked rats on the side of the road in south east asia, don't give me this barbarous relic shit!
ya im sure he's confused.  nonetheless your argument can't be it worked in the past so it will work in the future.  gold was good, but only because it had an EFFECTIVE throttle on its supply.  This can and will change.  It's a myth that it's tangibility was significant. Something with other (changing) significant uses is not as useful as a settlement device than an equivalent that has less other uses.

like its not my fault so many of the people that have been arguing you don't know what they are talking about.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  Grin

As if Jihan Wu is the only dumper in town o_O
Much of your points are no sound economic philosophy.  You've made your own definitions and created an argument that supports your own view but is contradicted by observable reality. You actually don't know anything about the subjects you are commenting on.  

Hey man, I'm not the one posting on an alt-troll acct from being scared.  If what I said about bitcoin and metals fundamentals wasn't true, someone would actually be able to put up some type of argument against it but nobody can. Instead, I got Sidhujag the guy from India, the world capital of gold, trying to troll the forum saying metals are a barbarous relic LOL.  They sell cooked rats on the side of the road in south east asia, don't give me this barbarous relic shit!
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 251
Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  Grin

As if Jihan Wu is the only dumper in town o_O
Do you have any more memes to post that can derail from your attempts to justify your misunderstanding?
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 251
Bah, I feel like the word actually isn't getting across...

What I mean to say is IRL, irl conflicts with your beliefs.  You are wrong and observably so.
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 251
Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  Grin

As if Jihan Wu is the only dumper in town o_O
Much of your points are no sound economic philosophy.  You've made your own definitions and created an argument that supports your own view but is contradicted by observable reality. You actually don't know anything about the subjects you are commenting on. 

ACTUALLY.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  Grin

As if Jihan Wu is the only dumper in town o_O
copper member
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1465
Clueless!
Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  Grin

Ouch...that hit me so low the 'family jewels hurt' ... wince!

low blow, low blow

You nailed it. (Damn than analogy also was not apt) (ouch!)

(the truth it always hurts!) Smiley

legendary
Activity: 1891
Merit: 3096
All good things to those who wait
Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828


OK, let's go for something within my lifetime. In August 1971, gold was $35.00 per ounce. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $211.00 in today's dollars. Now if I compare the price of gold to what it was in May of 1980, then it sucks. Overall, in the long haul, it's most probably going to keep up with inflation.
Not necessarily so at all. You've basically said it worked like this in the past and so it will work like this going forward.  But of course we didn't have bitcoin.  But more importantly you probably don't know that the relationship is really about the cost of production which effectively related to its deepness.

As we grow our technology gold won't necessarily be scarce and this will happen in our lifetimes.  This is why szabos article about mining the vast deep were written and relevant (as well as comet mining).

There is nothing to suggest gold will continue to be a superior or safe store of wealth.

Since when does scarcity make something good money or a store of wealth?  Roll Eyes

Furthermore, with PMs I have thousands of years of data to rely upon, whereas with Bitcoin, I only have a small sample of 8 years to rely upon. Which statistical sample do you think is more sound? Sure, it's quite possible that Bitcoin may be the next wave of innovation in money, just like fiat was 500 years ago. It could also be the next AOL or MySpace. At 49, I am certainly not going to invest my whole life savings in this. Especially in this realm where I can lose a substantial amount by just transferring some BTC to the wrong exchange at the wrong time (ie BTC-e, Cryptsy, MT Gox, Bitfinex etc etc etc etc etc)  or someone, somehow managing to breach my security and steal my bitcoins. (a 5.00 wrench should be enough for that.)
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1035
Bitstamp going full retard?
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 251


OK, let's go for something within my lifetime. In August 1971, gold was $35.00 per ounce. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $211.00 in today's dollars. Now if I compare the price of gold to what it was in May of 1980, then it sucks. Overall, in the long haul, it's most probably going to keep up with inflation.
Not necessarily so at all. You've basically said it worked like this in the past and so it will work like this going forward.  But of course we didn't have bitcoin.  But more importantly you probably don't know that the relationship is really about the cost of production which effectively related to its deepness.

As we grow our technology gold won't necessarily be scarce and this will happen in our lifetimes.  This is why szabos article about mining the vast deep were written and relevant (as well as comet mining).

There is nothing to suggest gold will continue to be a superior or safe store of wealth.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
Whatever  Roll Eyes

For me, if I want to be safe, I go for precious metals. Since the neolithic, it's held its value fairly well. A person 10,000 years ago can get about the same amount of goods and services as they can today. Yes, its value fluctuates in the short term, but in the long term, it will probably be one of the safest investments that I can possibly make. (And a little boring to be quite frank.)
If I want to go for risky, with high volatility and excitement, I go for Bitcoin/cryptocurrency. I've had almost 3 years worth of entertainment and have even seen my small "investment" increase 10 fold. This has been way more enjoyable, affordable and educational for me than my years of trying to perfect my card counting "system." Wish this was around in the 90's and early 2000s.
Enjoy life. It never has to be boring.



Did you look at the price of gold before you made this statement?  Its declining rapidly.  And its value 10k years from now is not relevant to you.  Your post denies observable reality.  gold is not safe, its losing value at a dramatic pace.

OK, let's go for something within my lifetime. In August 1971, gold was $35.00 per ounce. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $211.00 in today's dollars. Now if I compare the price of gold to what it was in May of 1980 or August 2011, then it sucks. Overall, in the long haul, it's most probably going to keep up with inflation. In fact, if you look at a 30 year chart, adjusted for inflation, it's fared quite well. http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 251
Whatever  Roll Eyes

For me, if I want to be safe, I go for precious metals. Since the neolithic, it's held its value fairly well. A person 10,000 years ago can get about the same amount of goods and services as they can today. Yes, its value fluctuates in the short term, but in the long term, it will probably be one of the safest investments that I can possibly make. (And a little boring to be quite frank.)
If I want to go for risky, with high volatility and excitement, I go for Bitcoin/cryptocurrency. I've had almost 3 years worth of entertainment and have even seen my small "investment" increase 10 fold. This has been way more enjoyable, affordable and educational for me than my years of trying to perfect my card counting "system." Wish this was around in the 90's and early 2000s.
Enjoy life. It never has to be boring.



Did you look at the price of gold before you made this statement?  Its declining rapidly.  And its value 10k years from now is not relevant to you.  Your post denies observable reality.  gold is not safe, its losing value at a dramatic pace.
hero member
Activity: 1876
Merit: 612
Plant 1xTree for each Satoshi earned!
You aren't here looking for truth at all.  

Let me guess, your net "truth" is to try and convince me India has the best schools in the world again.


India intensifies!!! Cheesy Cheesy .. You people are just gr8!! .. I come here every day, and I sometimes find the most magnificent gems that I can laugh my ass off. You peeps have the train of thought of fairy / pixie dust hodlers! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 437
Merit: 260
balance
Cryptocurrency is NOT fungible.  If anything about the protocol at all can be altered via a strongman or banana republic voting to take over it's exposed power vacuum it's not fungible.

Money = has objective, static traits

Currency = random arbitrary bullshit some guy makes up and constantly fiddles with like fiat or bitcoin. If it's possible for your money to "hard fork", or randomly morph from one thing to another, it's not fungible, and hence not money.

It doesn't matter if said forks are orchestrated by a banana republic of miners in a voting process. There is no Nash equilibrium in cryptocurrency, only a power vacuum to be filled by a top down hierarchy or strongman. To escape this master and servant hierarchy you have to use real money that cannot be altered or tampered with by third parties.
I think this argument is akin to "a government could nuke its own population to maintain control". Sure, you can rule over a barren wasteland of radioactive decay, but that kind of defeats the purpose of running a government in the first place.

The internet has become such an integral part of life that any draconian control over it would be a step backwards for the society that lives under that regime. At that point they would probably be confiscating gold as well.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
Whatever  Roll Eyes

For me, if I want to be safe, I go for precious metals. Since the neolithic, it's held its value fairly well. A person 10,000 years ago can get about the same amount of goods and services as they can today. Yes, its value fluctuates in the short term, but in the long term, it will probably be one of the safest investments that I can possibly make. (And a little boring to be quite frank.)
If I want to go for risky, with high volatility and excitement, I go for Bitcoin/cryptocurrency. I've had almost 3 years worth of entertainment and have even seen my small "investment" increase 10 fold. This has been way more enjoyable, affordable and educational for me than my years of trying to perfect my card counting "system." Wish this was around in the 90's and early 2000s.
Enjoy life. It never has to be boring.


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