Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 16901. (Read 26713795 times)

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
I'm not sure why changing the POW algo to an Asic resistant GPU friendly algo would really stop a centralization trend. GPUs use electricity, correct? Part of the problem with the "Chinese mining cartel" is that they can get cheaper electricity. Correct? What's to prevent them from just establishing huge GPU mining farms and shutting out the little guys again? Not to mention that the bigger guys will be able to get a deal on the GPUS since they would be able to buy in huge bulk.

I gather you've been (are still?) a miner, so your opinion has weight for me.
Please help me understand.

The cheap (subsidized) electricity argument... yeah, that is probably a show-stopper Sad
However, wouldn't an assortment of algos make life harder to monopolists/producer firms by forcing some kind of specialization?
Besides, they might have GPU farms (I believe they do), but in that case they would still be competing with homespun rigs set up by people who fire their computers anyway, mining or no mining. At the moment, given the monopolist market, few independent actors have modern mining equipments able to compete. Do you think the number and power of "independent" GPU's is too small to be significant?


Yes, people use their computers anyway. However, running a GPU 24/7 at maximum capacity uses a lot more electricity than a computer sitting on idle for most of the day. An assortment of algos only makes it difficult/impossible to make ASICs, which are dedicated chips designed to only do one task very well. Since GPUS are more general purpose, it's only a matter of changing the software to mine a new algo. It is true that an independent miner can possibly find ways to minimize their electricity costs. They may live in an area where it is cheaper. The may also live in a cooler climate, so their coolings costs would go down. The real kicker though is a big guy will almost always be able to buy the equipment (the GPUs) for cheaper than the independent miner. It's the same reason why Wal-mart can get their goods for way cheaper than an independent grocery. I'm not an expert, but one factor is that the cost of shipping goods does not go up proportionately with the amount of goods transported. A bus may use more gas than a taxi, but it can carry up to 50+ passengers and doesn't use 10X the gas. Plus both the bus and the taxi each need only one employee to drive.
legendary
Activity: 1464
Merit: 1136
Speculation on electricity costs vs. value:

Lets say mining costs (electricity costs) significantly decreased in the next decade or even became free. Would this pull the value out of bitcoin's POW? Or perhaps more nodes could run and value would be placed more on the security of the network.

Surely decreased energy costs would be a global change and difficult to predict.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087
Chinese mining cartel can dump BTC proper into oblivion. Let's face it. We're all going to die.

there's a whole world out there with dollars, euros and more. they can only sell once.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Quote from: lost_in_base
Shit comes in many forms..

This has nothing to do with bcc , bitcoin cash by VIA
hmmm
Im trying to find out how to make some profit out of this (as i was left without btc because of recent fast pump)
I'll figure this out within few days, give me some time Grin
The problem is when it forks off, whales cash(dump) it to zero.
Just another altcoin that should have no affect on BTC exchanges but japanese will halt some.

Lets get back to ATH!
Only 190 usd to go!
hero member
Activity: 1034
Merit: 558
Quote from: lost_in_base
Shit comes in many forms..

This has nothing to do with bcc , bitcoin cash by VIA
hmmm
Im trying to find out how to make some profit out of this (as i was left without btc because of recent fast pump)
I'll figure this out within few days, give me some time Grin
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
there will be hardly anyone to dump those split tokens onto.
current orderbook at finex: [and i doubt it would be much different in case of split]
bccusd:
 2         2.0    2.0    2,329
1         0.0    2.0    2,300
1         2.0    4.0    2,227
1         0.0    4.0    2,000
1         0.0    4.1    1,729
1         0.0    4.1    1,720
1         0.0    4.1    1,600
1         4.9    9.0    1,500
2         22.3    31.4    1,370
........
1         0.1    32.7    3

bcc/btc:
1         5.0    5.0    0.900
1         0.1    5.1    0.8712
1         0.0    5.1    0.8610
4         9.3    14.5    0.8550
2         5.0    19.5    0.8500
1         0.0    19.5    0.8143
......
1         0.0    24.6    0.1100
1         1.0    25.6    0.0920
1         10.0    35.6    0.0141
1         22.0    57.6    0.00023
1         31.0    88.6    0.00022
1         44.0    132.6    0.00021
1         496.1    628.7    0.00020
2         4,000.0    4,628.7    0.00001
1         2,000.0    6,628.7    0.000006
1         2,000.0    8,628.7    0.000005
1         2,000.0    10,628.7    0.000004
2         4,000.0    14,628.7    0.000002
12         24,000.0    38,628.7    0.000001





 Chain Split Tokens

Chain Split Tokens (CSTs) are the first such product of its kind, allowing Bitfinex customers to speculate on future fork events of the Bitcoin blockchain, specifically, the potential fork between Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Unlimited by 11:59:59 UTC December 31, 2017. CSTs are designated as BCC (Bitcoin Core) and BCU (Bitcoin Unlimited). CSTs trade as BTC and USD pairs.

Users will be able to create CSTs by “splitting” a bitcoin through the Token Manager (located in the Order Form’s Order Type drop-down menu in the sidebar). Once split, the BTC will be removed from your account for each BCC and BCU added. Through the same Token Manager, you will be able to reverse this process at any time, trading in equal numbers of BCC and BCU to extract BTC.

Learn more about Chain Split Tokens from:

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/195

https://www.bitfinex.com/cst_token_terms


Shit comes in many forms..

This has nothing to do with bcc , bitcoin cash by VIA
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.

Exchanges can dump bcc with insane volume.

So it is just a dead altcoin.

Chinese mining cartel can dump BTC proper into oblivion. Let's face it. We're all going to die.
hero member
Activity: 1034
Merit: 558
there will be hardly anyone to dump those split tokens onto.
current orderbook at finex: [and i doubt it would be much different in case of split]
bccusd:
 2         2.0    2.0    2,329
1         0.0    2.0    2,300
1         2.0    4.0    2,227
1         0.0    4.0    2,000
1         0.0    4.1    1,729
1         0.0    4.1    1,720
1         0.0    4.1    1,600
1         4.9    9.0    1,500
2         22.3    31.4    1,370
........
1         0.1    32.7    3

bcc/btc:
1         5.0    5.0    0.900
1         0.1    5.1    0.8712
1         0.0    5.1    0.8610
4         9.3    14.5    0.8550
2         5.0    19.5    0.8500
1         0.0    19.5    0.8143
......
1         0.0    24.6    0.1100
1         1.0    25.6    0.0920
1         10.0    35.6    0.0141
1         22.0    57.6    0.00023
1         31.0    88.6    0.00022
1         44.0    132.6    0.00021
1         496.1    628.7    0.00020
2         4,000.0    4,628.7    0.00001
1         2,000.0    6,628.7    0.000006
1         2,000.0    8,628.7    0.000005
1         2,000.0    10,628.7    0.000004
2         4,000.0    14,628.7    0.000002
12         24,000.0    38,628.7    0.000001


legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1018
Antpool is now signaling SW...

They all are due to BIP91. If they don't, they risk getting their solved blocks orphaned.

Sure, but segwit needs a bit1 flag, not bit4 (91). Don't all bip91 miners need to signal bit1 for it to truly be in?
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.

Exchanges can dump bcc with insane volume.

So it is just a dead altcoin.
And if you held both? Any risk in that?

No risk, just stupid.
Dump when there is any value.

This game with bcc will end when big exchanges will announce at monday that they will not support bcc in anyway atall never ever..!

Via will be left alone with its fake volume halting its users real coins.

To be avoided:
Bitbank Inc.
Bitpoint Japan Co. Ltd.
Quoine Co. Ltd.
Fisco Cryptocurrency Exchange Inc.
Coincheck Co. Ltd.
Btc Box Co. Ltd.
Tech Bureau Co. Ltd. (Zaif Exchange)
GMO-Z.com Coin Co. Ltd.
Campfire Corporation
Bit Trade Co. Ltd.
Bitcrements Bitcoin Exchange
Tokyo Bitcoin Co. Ltd.
Minnano Bitcoin

hero member
Activity: 1034
Merit: 558
spread some more good quality FUD, i need cheep coins to buy Smiley

We are all going to die... sometime.
Not necessarily... http://www.sens.org/research/introduction-to-sens-research
yeah sounds good Smiley survivors will gather coins from those who die :p or at least their holdings value will rise
legendary
Activity: 1464
Merit: 1136
The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.

Exchanges can dump bcc with insane volume.

So it is just a dead altcoin.
And if you held both? Any risk in that?
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.

Exchanges can dump bcc with insane volume.

So it is just a dead altcoin.
member
Activity: 371
Merit: 57
The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 1610
Self made HODLER ✓
spread some more good quality FUD, i need cheep coins to buy Smiley

We are all going to die... sometime.
Not necessarily... http://www.sens.org/research/introduction-to-sens-research

Troll, you are going to die too!


The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.

Using bitcoin.com as a source for its FUD material is exactly what a Monero shill would do.
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 3038
I'm not sure why changing the POW algo to an Asic resistant GPU friendly algo would really stop a centralization trend. GPUs use electricity, correct? Part of the problem with the "Chinese mining cartel" is that they can get cheaper electricity. Correct? What's to prevent them from just establishing huge GPU mining farms and shutting out the little guys again? Not to mention that the bigger guys will be able to get a deal on the GPUS since they would be able to buy in huge bulk.

I gather you've been (are still?) a miner, so your opinion has weight for me.
Please help me understand.

The cheap (subsidized) electricity argument... yeah, that is probably a show-stopper Sad
However, wouldn't an assortment of algos make life harder to monopolists/producer firms by forcing some kind of specialization?
Besides, they might have GPU farms (I believe they do), but in that case they would still be competing with homespun rigs set up by people who fire their computers anyway, mining or no mining. At the moment, given the monopolist market, few independent actors have modern mining equipments able to compete. Do you think the number and power of "independent" GPU's is too small to be significant?
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 1610
Self made HODLER ✓
spread some more good quality FUD, i need cheep coins to buy Smiley

We are all going to die... sometime.
hero member
Activity: 1034
Merit: 558
spread some more good quality FUD, i need cheep coins to buy Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 854
Merit: 262
If 20000002 is segwit  and bip91 20000012 is segwit does it matter which one miners signal for?
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