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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 1711. (Read 26716225 times)

hero member
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bitcoin retard
...
By the way, I have a little bit of a story, and I am not sure how much I should tell, but I had a situation in which I needed the seed phrase that was supposed to be in three parts and I was missing one of the parts (for reasons), and so I knew that I had two back ups of the three parts, and so I called up a life-long friend, and he surely is not very technical and even though talked with him about bitcoin several times, his eyes glaze over while he is looking at how complicated his flip phone is or that he is trying to get his remote on his TV to work.. (he doesn't have internet).. but anyhow.. I called him up, and I asked him if he could go to the location in which one of the pieces was located, and I would give him the code to get in, and then I would give him instructions about how to get to it while we were on the phone live, and he said o..k.. and he would call me when he was at the location.  It took about 5-10 minutes just to get to locating the place where the words were, and I told him that it would probably be 8 words, and he told me that it is only 4 words.. and then I remembered that it was a 12 word split up instead of a 24 word split.. and so when he read me the 4 words, he mentioned that one of the words was "xxcxxxxx", and I said that does not even sound like a real word, and he read it several times and told me that is what it says.  I said o.k... so I wrote down the 4 words, and I told him that I would let him know if I had any problems in terms of getting access to the wallet that I was wanting to get, but I would have to do it in a few hours.

So when I put together all 12 words, and I typed in the "xxcxxxx"  by the time I got to the second letter, there was already a suggestion that had the word to be "xxrxxxx".. so my friend could have had sworn that the word the one with the "c" and neither of us even thought about the word with the "r".. so sometimes simple mistakes can be figured out, but some kinds of more complicated mistakes might be a lot more difficult to resolve.
...

You should not split up a seed. someone finding one piece compromises the whole encryption.
Also you often have to get your seed words through communication channels (in your case phone) which has the risk of a middleman attack.

If you want to produce shares to give to friends I highly recommend using Shamir (Model T) where every share in itself is totally worthless and doesn't compromise the security when found. It's a kind of prestage to multisig which requires several wallets but can be manufacturer independent. (so for me Shamir is the second best when it comes to security)
It's very easy to use and might be perfect for what you want to do.

BTW afaik:
the reason for 24 words instead of 12 is actually that even if someone knows all words (out of order), your coins are still secure.
If someone knows all words of a 12 word seed out of order, he can brute force the sequence and get your coins.

If I remember it right, back in the days there was no option to put your seed directly into the Trezor so you had to use the keyboard on your computer. The computer didn't know the sequence though, as you were asked to put in the words out of order (for example word 7, 2, 11, etc). But with a 12 word seed someone could know the out of order words via a key logger and steal your coins by brute forcing the order.

That means you could send your 24 words through any compromised communication channel (even post it here).  And as long as no one knows the word sequence, your coins will be fine.

legendary
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sr. member
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I am looking to have four investments

silver
btc
fed bonds
real estate.




If ammunition becomes a truly important investment, it will be taken away from the less experienced by the more experienced and trained. You can rely on bunkers and machine guns in the barn either if you have your own mini-army, or while the majority of those around you are law-abiding.

I prefer to hope that I will not have to find out in practice whether my thoughts about the prospects of investing in ammunition are correct, so I choose Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 4354
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?
chillax buddy, all in good time
legendary
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legendary
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legendary
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legendary
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Neighborhood Shenanigans Dispenser
[ B-B-B-BUDDY BLOCKER ]
legendary
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legendary
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legendary
Activity: 2380
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Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
It looks like FTX will be selling $200,000,000 worth of crypto every week for the next 17 weeks… This will start next week. This downward pressure on the market will likely hold prices somewhat in check until the end of the year. I’d imagine once this is behind us (and the mtgox coins are distributed) it should be the final hurdle before launch.

This is the situation:


Source

Nothing too worrying for BTC.
Not so sure speaking of shitcoins
legendary
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legendary
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Addicted to HoDLing!
[...]

..... Another thing to note is that the attacker does not have an immediate indication that the correct passphrase was found, because ALL possible passphrases (even "wrong" ones) result in valid (albeit empty) wallets. So, the attacker will need to check the blockchain against ALL passphrase candidates, and reject those that result in empty wallets.

I don't really disagree with what you are saying here overall AlcoHoDL - however, there is a bit of a difference between entering a passphrase that leads to a previously used location versus one that leads to a bunch of empty wallets (that thereby presumptively would have to be created since the route had not previously been attempted).

In other words, if you enter in passphrase that leads to empty wallets, Trezor will provide a message:

"This hidden wallet is empty.  To make sure you are in the correct hidden wallet, please type the passphrase again."

And it thereby allows you to enter the passphrase again to confirm or to just exit out.

There is another box that you can check that says: "I understand passphrases cannot be retrieved."

On the other hand, if you enter a valid passphrase that has value contained therein, it will not give any message or prompt, but just open up to the wallet and the balances of the various accounts therein will be shown.

Jay, you are essentially saying exactly the same thing I'm saying, just in different words. When you type in a random passphrase and Trezor tells you that "This hidden wallet is empty", what Trezor does is go online and check that wallet against the blockchain. There is no other way for Trezor to know whether the wallet is empty or not. You can test this by connecting your Trezor to an offline computer (after cleaning browser cache). You'll see that there is no way for Trezor to differentiate between your "correct" passphrase and any other random passphrase. Also, there is absolutely no difference between "a passphrase that leads to a previously used location versus one that leads to a bunch of empty wallets (that thereby presumptively would have to be created since the route had not previously been attempted)". This is because every possible wallet that can result from every possible passphrase that you can type, already exists! There is no "creation process" because every possible wallet already exists! The passphrase you type is the last piece of the map that leads to that specific wallet, which is already waiting for you to access. Of course, the only passphrase that will lead to a non-empty wallet is your own "correct" passphrase. I'm putting "correct" in quotes, because there is no "right" or "wrong" passphrase, all are equivalent and all lead to existing wallets. So, there is absolutely no difference between your "correct" passphrase and any random passphrase, other than the fact that they lead to different wallets, with only the "correct" one containing your precious BTC.

For Trezor to be able to know which wallet is empty and which is not, it has to go online to check the blockchain, and this takes some time. It may be a few milliseconds, so near-instant for us, but this delay can be significant for a hacker who needs to test quadrillions of different combinations when brure-forcing your passphrase, even if it is done on a local copy of the blockchain.

Just to add to this, the probability of arriving at a non-empty wallet, other than the one corresponding to your "correct" passphrase is, for all practical purposes zero. This is like trying to crack Satoshi Nakamoto's private keys. It has been tried before by many, and has obviously failed. Math & science.

Anyway, I think I've over-described the above, maybe... When Andreas Antonopoulos realized and understood the above process, he was so impressed by its elegance that he nearly stopped eating and sleeping, and devoted his entire time reading more about Bitcoin and the blockchain. I think he said he lost 20+ pounds of weight in a short amount of time during that period.


[...]

It's a trade-off, with potentially dire consequences at either extreme. I choose the middle ground, i.e., a PIN and passphrase that are complex enough to deter even a seasoned thief/hacker, but memorable enough to reside in the neurons of my brain -- that last part could potentially be dangerous in case of amnesia or head injury.

Don't forget the dangers of hypnotism.. or gosh are there truth syrums that someone could put into your drink. and maybe you really don't want to know certain things without having to consult with some kind of way to put some pieces together.. but if you enter your pin or passphrase (or even your 12/24 words) enough, it might get committed to your short term and even long term memory.. is that a good thing or not?.. I do know that the longer I take to access some of my information, it can sometimes seem very complicated, even though I had previously thought (a couple years earlier) that I had created a pretty straight forward system.. but then does it really work..

By the way, I have a little bit of a story, and I am not sure how much I should tell, but I had a situation in which I needed the seed phrase that was supposed to be in three parts and I was missing one of the parts (for reasons), and so I knew that I had two back ups of the three parts, and so I called up a life-long friend, and he surely is not very technical and even though talked with him about bitcoin several times, his eyes glaze over while he is looking at how complicated his flip phone is or that he is trying to get his remote on his TV to work.. (he doesn't have internet).. but anyhow.. I called him up, and I asked him if he could go to the location in which one of the pieces was located, and I would give him the code to get in, and then I would give him instructions about how to get to it while we were on the phone live, and he said o..k.. and he would call me when he was at the location.  It took about 5-10 minutes just to get to locating the place where the words were, and I told him that it would probably be 8 words, and he told me that it is only 4 words.. and then I remembered that it was a 12 word split up instead of a 24 word split.. and so when he read me the 4 words, he mentioned that one of the words was "xxcxxxxx", and I said that does not even sound like a real word, and he read it several times and told me that is what it says.  I said o.k... so I wrote down the 4 words, and I told him that I would let him know if I had any problems in terms of getting access to the wallet that I was wanting to get, but I would have to do it in a few hours.

So when I put together all 12 words, and I typed in the "xxcxxxx"  by the time I got to the second letter, there was already a suggestion that had the word to be "xxrxxxx".. so my friend could have had sworn that the word the one with the "c" and neither of us even thought about the word with the "r".. so sometimes simple mistakes can be figured out, but some kinds of more complicated mistakes might be a lot more difficult to resolve.

Oh.. and by the way,. the whole time my friend was telling me that he was not even going to try to remember anything that I was telling him.. a kind of courtesy message to say that he was recognizing and appreciating that I was sharing private financial information with him.. but part of the reason that I picked him to do it was that I already considered him to be someone who I could trust with that information and even more information than he might be comfortable knowing about.

Never thought of hypnotism... Never took it seriously if I'm totally honest... But maybe this is a valid concern. I guess this danger cannot be avoided, since, by definition, everything is in our brains, even the locations of the backups. It can be stressful and dangerous being your own bank... I guess maintaining OPSEC is the best approach for this.

Nice story. I've left keys (to locks) with friends and relatives for security purposes, but never my wallet seeds or passphrases/PINs. Maybe I should. We're getting older and accidents happen. I think a mega-pump to $200,000+/BTC will surely prompt me to change some things security-wise, perhaps splitting some wallets and arranging for a way for loved ones to access them in case something bad happens.

Edit: Fixed typo.
legendary
Activity: 3836
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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
It looks like FTX will be selling $200,000,000 worth of crypto every week for the next 17 weeks… This will start next week. This downward pressure on the market will likely hold prices somewhat in check until the end of the year. I’d imagine once this is behind us (and the mtgox coins are distributed) it should be the final hurdle before launch.

They only held Shitcoins, no-one cares.

When Shitcoins tumble all the tards run from the sinking ship.

And they run to King Daddy.

*edited for lack of coffee brain

They chatter says they hold $268 in Bitcoin (7.8%), which isn't a lot tbf. $16m per week per week liquidating that would be. Other altcoins will get rekt though as there is already no liquidity to prop up a lot of prices.

I'm thinking it's time for another flush out of altcoins as Bitcoin continues sideways, maybe even a bit to the upside.


I have not been able to find any actual verifiable source for what the actual amounts and assets are, nothing but a circle jerk of unverified reports quoting each other.
legendary
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legendary
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legendary
Activity: 3962
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Multisig solves a lot of potential security issues without making things complex (which is a security issue by itself). It really should be the standard in case of managing anything else than pocket change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjS5qF65Yos
Shamir Backup seems like the best option to me. for a casual anyway.

Pretty easy and safe and secure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7WkAN0Gac4
I am not resting assured from those two videos, so in that regard, I have my doubts that shamir backups are a slam dunk as better than multi-sig.. including that multi-sig allows for not having to bring all the keys together at the same place (even though surely Antonopolis had pointed out one of the dangers to have the  public keys for all three but maybe only needing the private keys for two)

It seems that one of the dangers that bitebits was wanting to lesson is the potential problems of being reliant on one manufacturer, but sure, if you end up overcomplicating your matters, then you become your own danger to yourself.
That response was to his assertion that it should be a default.

Oh thanks for highlighting that.. because some times some of us are getting into complications that we do not sufficiently understand the trade-offs, and it took me a bit of time to even start to use the passphrase, but it seems really to be a great feature and not very difficult to use.. but at the same time.. each of us should be attempting to at least have increasing levels of security if the size of our stash is going up, but we have to be careful about not rushing into things that we don't sufficiently understand, which is part of what Antonopolis had been seeming to want to point out in that first video that you linked.
legendary
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sr. member
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PredX - AI-Powered Prediction Market

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how to create stamp bitcoin uodate prize like this sir? an tutorial??
legendary
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