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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 17376. (Read 26628666 times)

sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Good morning bitcoinland, are you ready for the Le Pen Pump? "Le Pump" is short.

What Finex needs to do is institute solid AML/KNC systems and get rid of margin trading.

Wasn't margin trading the main thing that helped finex surpass stamp? Besides SWAP-s were really good for all the HODL-ers, since you could just get ~50%/year increase for not doing much. I'm personally looking forward for finex to resolve all their banking issues.

surpass with fake volume from people that don't have the Bitcoins they are trading?
Yes fake volume with an forced ATH at a scaling crisis will do. Easy choice for the experienced traders.
hero member
Activity: 821
Merit: 1003
Good morning bitcoinland, are you ready for the Le Pen Pump? "Le Pump" is short.

What Finex needs to do is institute solid AML/KNC systems and get rid of margin trading.

Wasn't margin trading the main thing that helped finex surpass stamp? Besides SWAP-s were really good for all the HODL-ers, since you could just get ~50%/year increase for not doing much. I'm personally looking forward for finex to resolve all their banking issues.

surpass with fake volume from people that don't have the Bitcoins they are trading?
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Small trader
Good morning bitcoinland, are you ready for the Le Pen Pump? "Le Pump" is short.

What Finex needs to do is institute solid AML/KNC systems and get rid of margin trading.

Wasn't margin trading the main thing that helped finex surpass stamp? Besides SWAP-s were really good for all the HODL-ers, since you could just get ~50%/year increase for not doing much. I'm personally looking forward for finex to resolve all their banking issues.
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
(...)

If Bitfinex did use USDT and USDT is pegged to the dollar, then you would have your value in dollars until you transported those dollars (or USDT) to their destination, then you could buy back bitcoins or whatever else... so the first part seems to be the only relevant and operative part of your answer.. and that is that Bitfinex does not use USDT... therefore cannot use USDT in connection with Bitfinex... end of story, no?
The only exchange where you can buy cheap btc with USDT is kraken with $0.915 for 1 USD.

Well, yeah, there are two points. 

First: what locations USDT is available (and apparently not Bitfinex)

Second:  does USDT hold its value.


Regarding that second point, you may be correct that the theory of "peg to the dollar" is not really playing out in practice. and therefore the value is not very great.  However, if the transaction is 8%, someone still might be willing to pay that 8% if it is perceived to be less than the other arbitrage spread.

But the first point, seems to be more fundamental than the second point, no?  which has to do with how many locations have it available.  So if USDT is not really available as an option, such as at bitfinex, then we do not even get into the question about how much it costs to use because a person cannot even use it in regards to that particular location or any other location because s/he cannot even get into it in the first place (at the first location, such as bitfinex).
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 725
(...)

If Bitfinex did use USDT and USDT is pegged to the dollar, then you would have your value in dollars until you transported those dollars (or USDT) to their destination, then you could buy back bitcoins or whatever else... so the first part seems to be the only relevant and operative part of your answer.. and that is that Bitfinex does not use USDT... therefore cannot use USDT in connection with Bitfinex... end of story, no?
The only exchange where you can buy cheap btc with USDT is kraken with $0.915 for 1 USD.
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
question -

Is it possible to sell BTC on Bitfinex and withdraw using tether then buy back BTC on another exchange?

I'm curious

Bitfinex don't use USDT, even if it do you would loose your profit with it.

The first part of your answer seems to be correct, and I do not understand the second part.

If Bitfinex did use USDT and USDT is pegged to the dollar, then you would have your value in dollars until you transported those dollars (or USDT) to their destination, then you could buy back bitcoins or whatever else... so the first part seems to be the only relevant and operative part of your answer.. and that is that Bitfinex does not use USDT... therefore cannot use USDT in connection with Bitfinex... end of story, no?
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 725
question -

Is it possible to sell BTC on Bitfinex and withdraw using tether then buy back BTC on another exchange?

I'm curious

Bitfinex don't use USDT, even if it do you would loose your profit with it.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 512
Usually, when everyone is sure the price will rise, it inevitably plummets.

Conversely, when everyone is convinced the price will tank, it shoots up even further.

Careful
legendary
Activity: 992
Merit: 1000
question -

Is it possible to sell BTC on Bitfinex and withdraw using tether then buy back BTC on another exchange?

I'm curious
legendary
Activity: 4200
Merit: 4887
You're never too old to think young.
wtf is this, almost 100$ price difference, this can't be good. Can finex do anything to be back to normal? Or we pass that point and now they need some kind of external intervenience? Idk...

it's kind of out of bitfinex's hands. the last thing i read they were trying to do one time transfers through their attorney which probably breaks about a million laws. it looks like they need to abandon taiwanese banking and go somewhere else but that's easier said than done. this might go on for a long time.

What Finex needs to do is institute solid AML/KNC systems and get rid of margin trading. More transparency would help too.

As long as they continue in their present format, governments and their banker henchmen will continue to fight them.

Switching to banks in other countries will just delay the inevitable. The reach of American economic influence shouldn't be underestimated.

Stamp and BTCe remain running smoothly because the are largely self-regulated and Stamp is even licensed for regulation by the EU as a payment institution and makes use of SEPA.

It's not surprising that sketchy exchanges like Gox and Finex were targeted.

Remember, while governments and other corporations can't attack Bitcoin due to its decentralized nature, exchanges are sitting ducks.
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
After I processed my BTC withdrawal, I received the below e-mail from Bitfinex:


>>>>>>>>Withdrawal Approved
Your withdrawal [withdrawal number] of [quantity of BTC] via BITCOIN has been approved.

Withdrawal processing time:
Bitcoin: Processed within 1 minute after approval, subject to "hot wallet" available balance. Processed within 12 hours maximum.
Ether: Processed within 1 minute after approval, subject to "hot wallet" available balance. Processed within 12 hours maximum.
EtherClassic: Processed within 1 minute after approval, subject to "hot wallet" available balance. Processed within 12 hours maximum.
Zcash: Processed within 1 minute after approval, subject to "hot wallet" available balance. Processed within 12 hours maximum.
Monero: Processed within 1 minute after approval, subject to "hot wallet" available balance. Processed within 12 hours maximum.
Litecoin: Processed within 1 minute after approval, subject to "hot wallet" available balance. Processed within 12 hours maximum.
Dash: Processed within 1 minute after approval, subject to "hot wallet" available balance. Processed within 12 hours maximum.
Normal wire withdrawals: Processed within 7 business days after approval
Express wire withdrawals: Processed within 1 business days after approval
Please note that for security reasons, Bitfinex maintains limited crypto-currency balances in its on-line hot wallet. Should your withdrawal exceed the available amount, Bitfinex will need to manually replenish the hot wallet and/or manually review and approve withdrawals, which may take up to 12 hours.<<<<<<


It appears that normal and express wire withdawals are referring to fiat.  I have never used Bitfinex to send or receive fiat.  

When I look at the notice pages, it appears that only deposits are "paused" and not withdrawals..., and their announcement from today could be that they are making progress.. even though seems to be a bit slow.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts


If deposits of fiat continue to be paused on Bitfinex, aren't we going to get to a point that people run out of fiat on Bitfinex?.. then the price on bitfinex will drop, no?  If things were normal, then that would happen.
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

I have some funds there, and I am not sure, yet whether a run on the bank is necessary - even though, maybe it is better to get some of the funds out...   I will consider the matter a bit more and maybe hope that it is not too late... hahahaha

I think I have found out why sometimes your posts are so large. You do insist in quoting/replying to any and all paragraphs. That's good for a detailed followup, but its better to just get the idea of main points and do a single reply that covers them all. Its just a suggestion that will make everything easier. It's not perfect, it loses detail, but it is much more convenient.

Yeah right... you got it all figured out..

You know, you identified what you perceive to be a "problem", and I do not perceive such to be a problem, and therefore,  I was not asking for any suggestions...

And, really I think that my system works quite well for the purpose(s) for which I would like to aim.



About the insider trading... It matters a lot if they are solvent or not: If they are, they can take advantage of arbitrage... if they aren't they would KNOW not to do it. In fact, this big spread would suggest they are not doing the arbitrage, at least not in large ammounts.... THAT is suspicious... but who knows.

I think that some of your speculation, in this regards is a bit off base.


If they are solvent, then they have more means to float money around.  If they are not solvent then they do not have the means, but I still think that they have plenty of other peoples money to float around.. but you are correct that large amounts can raise too many red flags.



Now I know your worry, you have some funds on Bitfinex but you have it in FIAT (otherwise you would have already withdraw) and you would need to buy BTC at that premium price to get out.... Ok, lemme check something.... Ok, I am sorry, I tried to find another coin that wouldnt be at a premium price to get out, but all of them are. I donno, it's your call.

It was not really my worry.  It was your worry.  I was not even thinking about taking any funds out of Bitfinex, but then after my last post, I looked at my various funds and I saw that I had about 15% of my total bitcoin related funds on Bitfinex, and maybe about half of that was in bitcoins and the other half in other coins and in USD.

You are correct that a larger and larger amount of my money on Bitfinex is in USD for a variety of reasons  - but you know one of the reasons that I considered was that they had made a large pay off recently (of the BFX tokens), and that had caused a larger amount of my Bitfinex funds to be in cash, and then another thing that caused more in cash was the fact that the prices went up disproportionately on Bitfinex which caused my automatic sell orders to fill.. so yeah, I had quite a bit of various funds on Bitfinex.

I did decide to withdraw about 70% of my bitcoins, which is about 40% of the value of all the funds on the account.. and therefore, my BFX holdings are now about 9% of my total bitcoin related holdings. but still more than 1/3 of my total USD... so yeah, there could be some personal motivations in terms of my concerns about the disparities that are ongoing on bitfinex.  By the way, my withdraw of BTC went through pretty quickly.. .. but the fee was much higher than what I am used to paying.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087
wtf is this, almost 100$ price difference, this can't be good. Can finex do anything to be back to normal? Or we pass that point and now they need some kind of external intervenience? Idk...

it's kind of out of bitfinex's hands. the last thing i read they were trying to do one time transfers through their attorney which probably breaks about a million laws. it looks like they need to abandon taiwanese banking and go somewhere else but that's easier said than done. this might go on for a long time.
full member
Activity: 151
Merit: 100
wtf is this, almost 100$ price difference, this can't be good. Can finex do anything to be back to normal? Or we pass that point and now they need some kind of external intervenience? Idk...
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1530
Self made HODLER ✓

I have some funds there, and I am not sure, yet whether a run on the bank is necessary - even though, maybe it is better to get some of the funds out...   I will consider the matter a bit more and maybe hope that it is not too late... hahahaha

I think I have found out why sometimes your posts are so large. You do insist in quoting/replying to any and all paragraphs. That's good for a detailed followup, but its better to just get the idea of main points and do a single reply that covers them all. Its just a suggestion that will make everything easier. It's not perfect, it loses detail, but it is much more convenient.

About the insider trading... It matters a lot if they are solvent or not: If they are, they can take advantage of arbitrage... if they aren't they would KNOW not to do it. In fact, this big spread would suggest they are not doing the arbitrage, at least not in large ammounts.... THAT is suspicious... but who knows.

Now I know your worry, you have some funds on Bitfinex but you have it in FIAT (otherwise you would have already withdraw) and you would need to buy BTC at that premium price to get out.... Ok, lemme check something.... Ok, I am sorry, I tried to find another coin that wouldnt be at a premium price to get out, but all of them are. I donno, it's your call.

legendary
Activity: 2842
Merit: 1511
I think he meant a place to watch the bid/ask order walls.

edit: Bitcoinwisdom is back now for me.

Depth charts are available on Cryptowatch, albeit limited. I'll make a note of that other site in case Crypto's down however.
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
AKA   - expressing in another way.


The longer that Bitfinex maintains its price disparity, the more uncomfortable I become.

For several days, I thought that it was not a big deal - but this is going on a week now.

Furthermore, in the beginning, I am thinking that there are a variety of innocent explanations; however, the longer it goes on, I become more skeptical regarding the possible innocent explanations.

For example, Bitfinex seemed to have been on a pretty decent roll - restructured itself, paid off it's debt through innovative tools, social cost sharing and creation of new categories of equities devices.  Also, maintained its trade volume...

One thing that causes me to worry about the large price differential and it carrying on for so long is that insiders at Bitfinex can take advantage of such large arbitrage opportunities  much more easily than regular people and even use those kinds of arbitrage opportunities as ways to attempt to address their solvency issues (O.k.... Yeah.. I said it... "solvency" issues).... a manner of raising money to pay for their having had paid off all of their BFX tokens...

A problem with this whole scenario is that there can be a trade off with getting the economic advantages and losing credibility when they let the matter drag on for extended lengths of time.


Yes, but whats the question? If there is any here...

Sometimes when we post, we have questions, and other times, we are making current observations.  My last post was more of the observation category and also to describe that my thinking had been changing on the topic.



All you are saying is a possible scenario, yes. In the past years I have done consulting for several companies in bankruptcy and let me tell you most of the times they are in a denial that makes them invent all sort of excuses for its solvency problems that would be similar to what's happening here. But also, it may be a legit explanation for a solvable incident. We just don't KNOW.

I am not going to assume malevolence if there is little to no evidence, and I am not going to pump out scary scenarios if there is no justification for it; however, it still can be productive to comment about scenarios as they are unravelling and as the information is coming available to us.

Yeah, Bitfinex keeps quite a lot of its information private, but they also make announcements too - and they do not fall under traditional industry, when it comes to bankrupcy strategies, if they were going to go down that road.

I personally don't believe that we are in the bancrupcy category, yet, with Bitfinex, but any exchange owner (and insiders) are going to be tempted by their abilities to make additional money from their insider position, and I do not necessarily assume that exchange owners and insiders are engaging in insider trading - but the longer that these kinds of extreme price disparities exist, the more that I become skeptical regarding what the fuck are they doing to resolve the matter, or not.



They DO know for sure, so yes, if they know they are solvent they have an awesome opportunity to take advantage of arbitrage. If they are not, then it doesn't matter, they are fucked big time as if they do that and later not be able to fill all claims, there would probably be criminal charges (depend on local laws).

Wether they are solvent or not, they can take advantage of insider situations - and whether they are solvent or not, they may be restraining themselves from such insider conduct.



If you are worried that this could be a GOX 2.0 that would crash BTC into a bear market for years.... I don't think so. GOX was the reference at that time, and it is almost a miracle the market recovered from that fiasco. Bitifinex, being somewhat important, is nowhere near in the position that GOX was.


I agree with you that Bitfinex is not likely to be a Gox 2.0.. even if there seem to be some similarities, there are also a lot of differences too.


If you have some funds in Bitfinex I would withdraw them asap, but other than that.....

I have some funds there, and I am not sure, yet whether a run on the bank is necessary - even though, maybe it is better to get some of the funds out...   I will consider the matter a bit more and maybe hope that it is not too late... hahahaha
legendary
Activity: 4200
Merit: 4887
You're never too old to think young.
bitcoinwisdom.com is down now, they give the infamous 502 Bad Gateway

any other place I can watch the walls of all exchanges?

https://cryptowat.ch/

I think he meant a place to watch the bid/ask order walls.

edit: Bitcoinwisdom is back now for me.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1164
bitcoinwisdom.com is down now, they give the infamous 502 Bad Gateway

any other place I can watch the walls of all exchanges?

https://cryptowat.ch/
legendary
Activity: 4200
Merit: 4887
You're never too old to think young.
bitcoinwisdom.com is down now, they give the infamous 502 Bad Gateway

any other place I can watch the walls of all exchanges?

http://bitcointicker.co/

Not as nice a UI as Bitcoinwisdom but with a bit of clicking you can get the job done.
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