Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 19248.

billyjoeallen

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1007

Hide your women

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:26:34 PM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on February 20, 2016, 07:22:16 PM

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:13:38 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:03:26 PM

You gotta trust somebody Sad

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

With Bitcoin you only have to trust the government and central bank of China. Chinese miners caved to core. You think they wouldn't cave to their own government?

I'm certain they would capitulate to their government. If they try to make a change or otherwise manipulate transactions their blocks will be rejected and we will fork.

Why can you not understand censorship resistance?

Maybe you can help me understand. So we fork, but we would have to fork away from SHA256 or they could just point to the new fork and doublespend again, right?

Forking seems to be a last resort thing, and there is no code or plan in place to make that kind of switch, to say nothing of no hashpower to secure the new fork, so it could take weeks or months and in the meantime, no Bitcoin. During that time, could not the Chinese easily discover our new hashing algorithm and swamp the hashpools with more doublespending?

So please, explain this censorship resistance. How is this not a vulnerability?

BlindMayorBitcorn

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1116

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:44:21 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:37:08 PM

TL;DR: A brick could land on my head tomorrow, and yet I trust teh fates & walk around with my head bare. I'm also not investing in a system of underground tunnels to protect myself from bricks which might fall out of the sky. Call me a risk-taker, call me a daredevil.

And China could outlaw bitcoin tomorrow?

I guess we're both daredevils,

Woot?

Lightning Hubs might be considered illegal in China. And New York. Lips sealed

Time will tell.

shmadz

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: valta4065 on February 20, 2016, 07:33:23 PM

Damn, the more the time passes, the less I understand this thread xD

The thread is long, the grievances are many.

BlindMayorBitcorn

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1116

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 20, 2016, 07:40:51 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on February 20, 2016, 07:39:28 PM

^So much evil in the heart of one man. How? Cry

Fat people have enlarged hearts.

Interesting.
How do they have so much darkness in their souls tho?

shmadz

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:37:08 PM

TL;DR: A brick could land on my head tomorrow, and yet I trust teh fates & walk around with my head bare. I'm also not investing in a system of underground tunnels to protect myself from bricks which might fall out of the sky. Call me a risk-taker, call me a daredevil.

And China could outlaw bitcoin tomorrow?

I guess we're both daredevils,

Woot?

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on February 20, 2016, 07:39:28 PM

^So much evil in the heart of one man. How? Cry

Fat people have enlarged hearts.

BlindMayorBitcorn

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1116

^So much evil in the heart of one man. How? Cry

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:36:19 PM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 20, 2016, 07:29:17 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on February 20, 2016, 07:22:06 PM

This hard-fork is expected to include features which are currently being discussed within technical communities, including an increase in the non-witness data to be around 2 MB, with the total size no more than 4 MB, and will only be adopted with broad support across the entire Bitcoin community.

SegWit is expected to be released in April 2016.
The code for the hard-fork will therefore be available by July 2016.
If there is strong community support, the hard-fork activation will likely happen around July 2017.

So if someone started a purely classic/xt pool and got more than 5% hashing power...

Exactly. If someone ran a purely classic/xt pool and got more than 5% hashing power they should be able to single-handedly prevent any future hard fork of the bitcoin consensus protocol.

Why do you think there has been no changes to TCP/IP in the last 20 years? Why do you think IPV6 still has less than 1% implementation?

Changes to consensus protocol are not easy, nor should they be.

Nor am I.....

Muahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!

blunderer

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:29:23 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:24:58 PM

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:13:38 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:03:26 PM

You gotta trust somebody Sad

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

Again, you can verify your bitcoin on the blockchain all you want, but

Quote

... a transaction is not simply sending the money in one direction. A transaction is only complete when the stuff you paid for arrives at your door. Shit ain't trustless if you want to buy a car from me, you send me your trustless money, and I take your money & show you my middle finger. You get no car. What now?

Bitcoin is solving only one half of the trust equation, the half I never had trouble with in fiat. My bank never stole any of my money, and, what's more, my CC *lends me money at zero interest, to use, for free Shocked

Does Bitcoin lend you money?
Oh, and my parents' money was also never stolen by their bank. We're a lucky bunch

As far as auditing federal reserve, I never even audited Bitcoin software, and shit's open source. And BTC goes missing all the time, think Gox. If my bank runs away with my money, gets haxxored, or loses $$$ due to malleability, my account is FDIC insured, so I'm good

Does FDIC have sufficient reserves to ensure everyone's money?

What about if I live in cypress? Or Greece?

I'm sure a paranoid mind can concoct a scenario in which all the US banks are simultaneously unable to pay & FDIC is unable to cover for them. This is far less likely to happen than Bitcoin getting banned/failing/getting raped by quantum computers, or, most likely, 9 Chinese guys getting together & realizing that it's in their rational self-interest to screw you out of everything you got.

Also, if all US banks default, you got bigger problems than not being able to get at your fucking shekels -- gather whatever you got, spend on a nice Princess Stainless coffin, climb in & beat the rush.

TL;DR: A brick could land on my head tomorrow, and yet I trust teh fates & walk around with my head bare. I'm also not investing in a system of underground tunnels to protect myself from bricks which might fall out of the sky. Call me a risk-taker, call me a daredevil.

shmadz

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 20, 2016, 07:29:17 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on February 20, 2016, 07:22:06 PM

This hard-fork is expected to include features which are currently being discussed within technical communities, including an increase in the non-witness data to be around 2 MB, with the total size no more than 4 MB, and will only be adopted with broad support across the entire Bitcoin community.

   SegWit is expected to be released in April 2016.
   The code for the hard-fork will therefore be available by July 2016.
   If there is strong community support, the hard-fork activation will likely happen around July 2017.

So if someone started a purely classic/xt pool and got more than 5% hashing power...

Exactly. If someone ran a purely classic/xt pool and got more than 5% hashing power they should be able to single-handedly prevent any future hard fork of the currently existing bitcoin consensus protocol.

Why do you think there has been no changes to TCP/IP in the last 20 years? Why do you think IPV6 still has less than 1% implementation?

Changes to consensus protocol are not easy, nor should they be.

BlindMayorBitcorn

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1116

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 20, 2016, 07:29:17 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on February 20, 2016, 07:22:06 PM

This hard-fork is expected to include features which are currently being discussed within technical communities, including an increase in the non-witness data to be around 2 MB, with the total size no more than 4 MB, and will only be adopted with broad support across the entire Bitcoin community.

   SegWit is expected to be released in April 2016.
   The code for the hard-fork will therefore be available by July 2016.
   If there is strong community support, the hard-fork activation will likely happen around July 2017.

So if someone started a purely classic/xt pool and got more than 5% hashing power...

I see an opportunity.

PiratePool

I can almost hear your evil mind at work from here. Like a chubby Peter Todd, you are. Angry

valta4065

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 500

Join @Bountycloud for the best bounties!

Damn, the more the time passes, the less I understand this thread xD

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:29:23 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:24:58 PM

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:13:38 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:03:26 PM

You gotta trust somebody Sad

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

Again, you can verify your bitcoin on the blockchain all you want, but

Quote

... a transaction is not simply sending the money in one direction. A transaction is only complete when the stuff you paid for arrives at your door. Shit ain't trustless if you want to buy a car from me, you send me your trustless money, and I take your money & show you my middle finger. You get no car. What now?

Bitcoin is solving only one half of the trust equation, the half I never had trouble with in fiat. My bank never stole any of my money, and, what's more, my CC *lends me money at zero interest, to use, for free Shocked

Does Bitcoin lend you money?
Oh, and my parents' money was also never stolen by their bank. We're a lucky bunch

As far as auditing federal reserve, I never even audited Bitcoin software, and shit's open source. And BTC goes missing all the time, think Gox. If my bank runs away with my money, gets haxxored, or loses $$$ due to malleability, my account is FDIC insured, so I'm good

Does FDIC have sufficient reserves to ensure everyone's money?

What about if I live in cypress? Or Greece?

Cypress is in Texas, so he's good.

shmadz

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:24:58 PM

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:13:38 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:03:26 PM

You gotta trust somebody Sad

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

Again, you can verify your bitcoin on the blockchain all you want, but

Quote

... a transaction is not simply sending the money in one direction. A transaction is only complete when the stuff you paid for arrives at your door. Shit ain't trustless if you want to buy a car from me, you send me your trustless money, and I take your money & show you my middle finger. You get no car. What now?

Bitcoin is solving only one half of the trust equation, the half I never had trouble with in fiat. My bank never stole any of my money, and, what's more, my CC *lends me money at zero interest, to use, for free Shocked

Does Bitcoin lend you money?
Oh, and my parents' money was also never stolen by their bank. We're a lucky bunch

As far as auditing federal reserve, I never even audited Bitcoin software, and shit's open source. And BTC goes missing all the time, think Gox. If my bank runs away with my money, gets haxxored, or loses $$$ due to malleability, my account is FDIC insured, so I'm good

Does FDIC have sufficient reserves to ensure everyone's money?

What about if I live in cypress? Or Greece?

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on February 20, 2016, 07:22:06 PM

This hard-fork is expected to include features which are currently being discussed within technical communities, including an increase in the non-witness data to be around 2 MB, with the total size no more than 4 MB, and will only be adopted with broad support across the entire Bitcoin community.

   SegWit is expected to be released in April 2016.
   The code for the hard-fork will therefore be available by July 2016.
   If there is strong community support, the hard-fork activation will likely happen around July 2017.

So if someone started a purely classic/xt pool and got more than 5% hashing power...

I see an opportunity.

PiratePool

blunderer

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:20:43 PM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on February 20, 2016, 07:09:16 PM

Let's look at Adam's poll: 79 percent support the compromise. Totally too small of a samples size, but just for shits and giggles, let's assume that is representative. 75% is NOT consensus, but 79% is?

Consensus is 100%
...

*cough*

Quote

The level of agreement necessary to finalize a decision is known as a decision rule.[3][7] Possible decision rules for consensus vary within the following range:

   Unanimous agreement
   Unanimous consent (See agreement vs consent below)
   Unanimous agreement minus one vote or two votes
   Unanimous consent minus one vote or two votes
   Super majority thresholds (90%, 80%, 75%, two-thirds, and 60% are common).
   Simple majority
   Executive committee decides
   Person-in-charge decides

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making#Decision_rules

>If they try to make a change or otherwise manipulate transactions their blocks will be rejected and we will fork./Why can you not understand censorship resistance?

Not this again. No, you won't successfully fork away from > 75% hashpower. You'll have a dead fork & dead coin.

shmadz

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: billyjoeallen on February 20, 2016, 07:22:16 PM

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:13:38 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:03:26 PM

You gotta trust somebody Sad

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

With Bitcoin you only have to trust the government and central bank of China. Chinese miners caved to core. You think they wouldn't cave to their own government?

I'm certain they would capitulate to their government. If they try to make a change or otherwise manipulate transactions their blocks will be rejected and we will fork.

Why can you not understand censorship resistance?

blunderer

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:13:38 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:03:26 PM

You gotta trust somebody Sad

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

Again, you can verify your bitcoin on the blockchain all you want, but

Quote

... a transaction is not simply sending the money in one direction. A transaction is only complete when the stuff you paid for arrives at your door. Shit ain't trustless if you want to buy a car from me, you send me your trustless money, and I take your money & show you my middle finger. You get no car. What now?

Bitcoin is solving only one half of the trust equation, the half I never had trouble with in fiat. My bank never stole any of my money, and, what's more, my CC *lends me money at zero interest, to use, for free Shocked

Does Bitcoin lend you money?
Oh, and my parents' money was also never stolen by their bank. We're a lucky bunch

As far as auditing federal reserve, I never even audited Bitcoin software, and shit's open source. And BTC goes missing all the time, think Gox. If my bank runs away with my money, gets haxxored, or loses $$$ due to malleability, my account is FDIC insured, so I'm good

kehtolo

hero member

Activity: 707

Merit: 500

Quote from: cr7 on February 20, 2016, 06:57:07 PM

" I am relatively happy with the consensus reached today. "

I'm happy with more money in my pocket, if consensus = less fear and higher prices, then I'm happy

Is that really you Ronaldo? - looking for moar money in do phocha.. I tawt you was already minted you greedy ++++

billyjoeallen

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1007

Hide your women

Quote from: shmadz on February 20, 2016, 07:13:38 PM

Quote from: blunderer on February 20, 2016, 07:03:26 PM

You gotta trust somebody Sad

Right. with bitcoin I need to trust the integrity of the blockchain, that the record has not been tampered with. I can verify this myself, and I can cross-verify with several thousand other nodes across the network.

In a fiat transaction I need to trust the government and central bank, which do not have a great track record over the last hundred years. When was the last time the federal reserve was audited?

With Bitcoin you only have to trust the government and central bank of China. Chinese miners caved to core. You think they wouldn't cave to their own government?

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 19248. (Read 26607984 times)