Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 19810.

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: jbreher on December 18, 2015, 04:22:37 PM

Quote from: rocks on December 18, 2015, 03:45:34 PM

If Maxwell succeeds and forking Bitcoin from it's vision as a true P2P currency that anyone can use...

GMax has abdicated his bitcoin github commit access. This is a significant development. Stated reason 'personal'. Speculation on inferred subtext may include 'ragequit' - dunno. Net result: less support for 1MB4Eva within the core team.

BULLISH!

There's no question Greg's a smart guy, and one of Bitcoin's stronger intellects. His technical ability will be missed. However, he seemed ideologically blindered to smallblockianism. I think this is a net positive.

The way he handled the anti-BitcoinXT "Satoshi"-email made me trust him quite a lot less. He does seem to have invested more of his ego in this blocksize debate than he could afford to lose. So it might be for the best for all concerned that he withdraws a bit.

In any event, he is not irreplaceable. If he were, Bitcoin wouldn't be worth much.

Quote from: wachtwoord on December 18, 2015, 04:31:09 PM

I saw this earlier and hope/think Greg will reconsider and keep fighting the good fight against Gavin's minions.

This is not LOTR, nor Warcraft. Genuine people have genuine disagreements. There are no minions.... on Gavin's side.

jbreher

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1688

lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: rebuilder on December 18, 2015, 04:22:30 PM

Quote from: rocks on December 18, 2015, 04:17:15 PM

That is why we have the minimum fee in place. It makes spam attacks economically unprofitable and drains bitcoin from the spammer.

We have run for 6 years without a fee market and no spam attack has taken place.

There's no minimum fee dictated by the protocol. You can send 0-fee transactions if you wish.

...and in times of congestion, your 0-fee transaction will not get included in any blocks. Fine. But what happens when everyone (e.g. more than 4-7 per second) is including a fee? Is it reasonable that nobody is granted access to the system but those prepared to pay 0.1 BTC? 1 BTC? 10 BTC? The central question is whether or not a protocol limited to 4 tps is reasonable. I reply with an emphatic 'NO'.

Quote

As for no spam attack, what else would you call the "stress tests" we had?

Let us amend that to 'no effective spam attack'.

But small blocks only make it cheaper for an attacker to clog the system. Large blocks make it more expensive to clog the system. With large blocks, the attacker must create more transactions, each accompanied by whatever minimum fee the miners on average set for their individual policies for fee threshold for block inclusion.

wachtwoord

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: jbreher on December 18, 2015, 04:22:37 PM

Quote from: rocks on December 18, 2015, 03:45:34 PM

If Maxwell succeeds and forking Bitcoin from it's vision as a true P2P currency that anyone can use...

GMax has abdicated his bitcoin github commit access. This is a significant development. Stated reason 'personal'. Speculation on inferred subtext may include 'ragequit' - dunno. Net result: less support for 1MB4Eva within the core team.

BULLISH!

There's no question Greg's a smart guy, and one of Bitcoin's stronger intellects. His technical ability will be missed. However, he seemed ideologically blindered to smallblockianism. I think this is a net positive.

I saw this earlier and hope/think Greg will reconsider and keep fighting the good fight against Gavin's minions.

peonminer

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 531

Crypto is King.

We are all Satoshi. Grin

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115901/satoshi-nakamoto-writes-to-cointelegraph-about-the-nobel-prize

jbreher

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1688

lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: rocks on December 18, 2015, 03:45:34 PM

If Maxwell succeeds and forking Bitcoin from it's vision as a true P2P currency that anyone can use...

GMax has abdicated his bitcoin github commit access. This is a significant development. Stated reason 'personal'. Speculation on inferred subtext may include 'ragequit' - dunno. Net result: less support for 1MB4Eva within the core team.

BULLISH!

There's no question Greg's a smart guy, and one of Bitcoin's stronger intellects. His technical ability will be missed. However, he seemed ideologically blindered to smallblockianism. I think this is a net positive.

rebuilder

legendary

Activity: 1615

Merit: 1000

Quote from: rocks on December 18, 2015, 04:17:15 PM

That is why we have the minimum fee in place. It makes spam attacks economically unprofitable and drains bitcoin from the spammer.

We have run for 6 years without a fee market and no spam attack has taken place.

There's no minimum fee dictated by the protocol. You can send 0-fee transactions if you wish.

As for no spam attack, what else would you call the "stress tests" we had?

MinermanNC

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1000

I think soon we will see a new BOAcoin coming into circulation Grin

The way all these banks are jumping on blockchain technology. So long as they convert it to BTC Shocked

rocks

legendary

Activity: 1153

Merit: 1000

Quote from: AlexGR on December 18, 2015, 04:08:00 PM

Quote from: rocks on December 18, 2015, 03:45:34 PM

Agreed, Why anyone would be heavily invested in an artificially capped currency that most people can not use is beyond me.

Remember a fee market does not work. A fee market simply prices people out, it decides who can use and who cannot use Bitcoin.

It is not "beyond you" to understand this. It is pretty elementary.

1. You can understand pretty well the concept of abuse.
2. You can understand that not 100% of humanity is dependable to behave in a good manner, 24/7/365.
3. If you leave the option of free and totally unrestrained use of the blockchain then it's just a matter of time before the blockchain is bloated to infinity by some script kiddie who creates some script and lets it run continuously and adds tens / hundreds of gigabytes of spam, "for the lulz"...
4. You can now fully grasp that fees and "limitations" are what prevent system abuse that would have already rendered BTC a swift death.
5. If you have a better solution for the problem at hand, please present it.

The question you pose is actually reversed: Who would actually be invested in a joke currency that a script kiddie can render it useless for the lolz?

That is why we have the minimum fee in place. It makes spam attacks economically unprofitable and drains bitcoin from the spammer.

We have run for 6 years without a fee market and no spam attack has taken place.

The script kiddie scenario you state as a fact, is in fact a fantasy, it has not happened because there are already mechanisms in place to prevent it.

Seriously go read satoshi's white paper, it explains all of this. Enjoy your Maxwellcoin with the 5 other people allowed to use it.

Oh, and Maxwell said just last week on the mailing list that we was considering LOWERING the 1MB limit earlier this year. That's apparently what you small blockers want, 5 people trading bitcoin between yourselves and wondering why they aren't worth anything.

Thankfully the way bitcoin was designed is everyone with an ounce of sense can take our own path and fork away from you.

jbreher

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1688

lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:45:10 PM

Why the difficulty leap? Can't find info anywhere. Can someone fill me in and elaborate. Thanks.

Must. read. moar.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13289831

post less.

aztecminer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 03:54:26 PM

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:50:17 PM

It appeared that people were referencing a one-off, gigantic event that would make the hash rate jump up - I assumed this was something in the news that I missed about new mining equipment being deployed or something of the sort.

Since someone mentioned this down to the exact block, I assumed it was something more than just a re-target.

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 03:46:33 PM

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:45:10 PM

Why the difficulty leap? Can't find info anywhere. Can someone fill me in and elaborate. Thanks.

Quote from: Fatman3001 on December 18, 2015, 03:03:56 PM

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 02:59:27 PM

everybody ready for bitcoin's largest ever increase in difficulty?

One block left.

don't mean to be a dick, but are you new?

more people are mining, so hashrate has gone up, so network adjusts by making it more difficult to find blocks, therefore keeping supply of bitcoin predictable.

my apologies, it was mainly me getting overexcited. there has just been a lot of interest in mining recently given the price rise.

i quit mining because it is pointless to mine in the usa. you buy hardware to mine with and write that off along with ur electricity and whatever else. then you have to mine for months just to break even. then mine several more months to make profit. then you pay the irs income tax on everything you mined. then u have to wait a year to sell to get lower tax rate on the profit you sold your coins at. i mined mostly because i am a hardware geek who tinkered with mining hardware. you are better off just straight buying coins and HODL them. you do not get taxed (at least not yet ) for buying and holding bitcoins. HODL for at least one year and you wont pay as high of taxes (if you consider the 15% TAX RATE THAT OBAMA RAISED TO 20% AS NOT ABUSIVE HIGH TAXES). all my cold storage coins will be one year or older at new years. no point in me selling them though.

i believe the usa govy taxes are to high in an extreme way. we are talking abusively high taxes.

keewee

legendary

Activity: 1025

Merit: 1000

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:45:10 PM

Why the difficulty leap? Can't find info anywhere. Can someone fill me in and elaborate. Thanks.

Quote from: Fatman3001 on December 18, 2015, 03:03:56 PM

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 02:59:27 PM

everybody ready for bitcoin's largest ever increase in difficulty?

One block left.

Massive new data centres using new generations of highly efficient mining chips. This is mining now:

AlexGR

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1049

Quote from: rocks on December 18, 2015, 03:45:34 PM

Agreed, Why anyone would be heavily invested in an artificially capped currency that most people can not use is beyond me.

Remember a fee market does not work. A fee market simply prices people out, it decides who can use and who cannot use Bitcoin.

It is not "beyond you" to understand this. It is pretty elementary.

1. You can understand pretty well the concept of abuse.
2. You can understand that not 100% of humanity is dependable to behave in a good manner, 24/7/365.
3. If you leave the option of free and totally unrestrained use of the blockchain then it's just a matter of time before the blockchain is bloated to infinity by some script kiddie who creates some script and lets it run continuously and adds tens / hundreds of gigabytes of spam, "for the lulz"...
4. You can now fully grasp that fees and "limitations" are what prevent system abuse that would have already rendered BTC a swift death.
5. If you have a better solution for the problem at hand, please present it.

The question you pose is actually reversed: Who would actually be invested in a joke currency that a script kiddie can render it useless for the lolz?

fisheater22

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 18, 2015, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: fisheater22 on December 18, 2015, 02:54:37 PM

Quote from: BitofaN1 on December 18, 2015, 02:28:22 PM

Quote from: fisheater22 on December 18, 2015, 01:45:57 PM

Quote from: BitofaN1 on December 18, 2015, 01:37:40 PM

Couldn't they artificially pump up the price so all that mining hardware that must have cost fortunes,
can pay for itself as soon as possible?

If they could, why didn't they do it before their hardware became unprofitable, to simply boost their profits?
And why would anyone invest in a virtual asset which could be so easily manipulated?

Because the mining gear that accounts for the 220 mil GH/s network hash rate increase, came online only recently. Probably early
november.That investment needs to brake even fast. There is clearly demand out there, even at these prices but not to sustain it with out China's "help".

So what you're saying is until now, miners could afford to make less money, but now that they're stuck with all the new HW, they have to get serious? Is that the gist of it, or am I missing something?
Chinese exchanges are in business to make money. Miners going broke doesn't add any new tools to the exchanges' manipulation arsenal. If they could manipulate the price, they're already doing it.

You are coming off as a conspiratory-ridden troller, and really not someone who wants to engage in any kind of meaningful way regarding bitcoin.

If you really sold most of your coins at $450, like you said, and you do not believe in bitcoin, then get the fuck out of here and take your profits and invest in something more secure, in your opinion.

What are you talking about? What conspiracy? What $450? What's wrong with you?

Edit: OK, remember you now.

Quote from: fisheater22 on December 14, 2015, 05:54:49 PM

...
[4] Don't argue with JayJuanGee. ~~I think~~ he has Assburgers.

gotmilk_

sr. member

Activity: 442

Merit: 250

It is time! Cool

aztecminer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:45:10 PM

Why the difficulty leap? Can't find info anywhere. Can someone fill me in and elaborate. Thanks.

Quote from: Fatman3001 on December 18, 2015, 03:03:56 PM

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 02:59:27 PM

everybody ready for bitcoin's largest ever increase in difficulty?

One block left.

most likely due to increase in price and hashrate.

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Coin

Explanation

aztecminer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: billyjoeallen on December 18, 2015, 02:03:19 PM

Quote from: Karpeles on December 18, 2015, 01:50:14 PM

When will we start to skyrocket again?

I don't know, Newbie. As soon as you start buying, I guess. All I know is that if we don't get a new ATH or a scaling solution by the time of the halving, I'm dumping my cold storage coins.

if you really want to leave em pissed... go buy a bunch metals.

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 11299

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: fisheater22 on December 18, 2015, 02:54:37 PM

Quote from: BitofaN1 on December 18, 2015, 02:28:22 PM

Quote from: fisheater22 on December 18, 2015, 01:45:57 PM

Quote from: BitofaN1 on December 18, 2015, 01:37:40 PM

Couldn't they artificially pump up the price so all that mining hardware that must have cost fortunes,
can pay for itself as soon as possible?

If they could, why didn't they do it before their hardware became unprofitable, to simply boost their profits?
And why would anyone invest in a virtual asset which could be so easily manipulated?

Because the mining gear that accounts for the 220 mil GH/s network hash rate increase, came online only recently. Probably early
november.That investment needs to brake even fast. There is clearly demand out there, even at these prices but not to sustain it with out China's "help".

So what you're saying is until now, miners could afford to make less money, but now that they're stuck with all the new HW, they have to get serious? Is that the gist of it, or am I missing something?
Chinese exchanges are in business to make money. Miners going broke doesn't add any new tools to the exchanges' manipulation arsenal. If they could manipulate the price, they're already doing it.

You are coming off as a conspiratory-ridden troller, and really not someone who wants to engage in any kind of meaningful way regarding bitcoin.

If you really sold most of your coins at $450, like you said, and you do not believe in bitcoin, then get the fuck out of here and take your profits and invest in something more secure, in your opinion.

rtrtcrypto

hero member

Activity: 627

Merit: 500

It's fine. Made me realize I need to follow the hash rate more carefully anyway. Thanks.

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 03:54:26 PM

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:50:17 PM

It appeared that people were referencing a one-off, gigantic event that would make the hash rate jump up - I assumed this was something in the news that I missed about new mining equipment being deployed or something of the sort.

Since someone mentioned this down to the exact block, I assumed it was something more than just a re-target.

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 03:46:33 PM

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:45:10 PM

Why the difficulty leap? Can't find info anywhere. Can someone fill me in and elaborate. Thanks.

Quote from: Fatman3001 on December 18, 2015, 03:03:56 PM

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 02:59:27 PM

everybody ready for bitcoin's largest ever increase in difficulty?

One block left.

don't mean to be a dick, but are you new?

more people are mining, so hashrate has gone up, so network adjusts by making it more difficult to find blocks, therefore keeping supply of bitcoin predictable.

my apologies, it was mainly me getting overexcited. there has just been a lot of interest in mining recently given the price rise.

spooderman

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1029

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:50:17 PM

It appeared that people were referencing a one-off, gigantic event that would make the hash rate jump up - I assumed this was something in the news that I missed about new mining equipment being deployed or something of the sort.

Since someone mentioned this down to the exact block, I assumed it was something more than just a re-target.

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 03:46:33 PM

Quote from: rtrtcrypto on December 18, 2015, 03:45:10 PM

Why the difficulty leap? Can't find info anywhere. Can someone fill me in and elaborate. Thanks.

Quote from: Fatman3001 on December 18, 2015, 03:03:56 PM

Quote from: spooderman on December 18, 2015, 02:59:27 PM

everybody ready for bitcoin's largest ever increase in difficulty?

One block left.

don't mean to be a dick, but are you new?

more people are mining, so hashrate has gone up, so network adjusts by making it more difficult to find blocks, therefore keeping supply of bitcoin predictable.

my apologies, it was mainly me getting overexcited. there has just been a lot of interest in mining recently given the price rise.

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