Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 20647. (Read 26609464 times)

I have heard the argument "he is rich therefore he doesn't need more money" used to introduce a couple of egregious scammers and thieves.  Even in this context, it is a bogus argument: usually, rich people are rich because they always want to make more money that they already have.


KnC seems to be "selling" some of their mined coins in the form of the XBT Tracker One Electronically Traded Notes.  Those are issued through NASDAQ Sweden by a company somehow connected to them.   As I understand it, KnC keeps the bitcoins and sell IOUs that promise to pay the holder whatever the current BTC price will be at the time.  

The buyers of those notes may be a different population than the people who buy at the exchanges, so those "sales" may not impact the price immediately (as they would if KnC were to sell the BTC on the exchanges).  However, if many holders decide to redeem the notes, KnC may be forced to sell the BTC to raise the money for that.

The notes that they issued and sold so far correspond to ~16'000 BTC.  I am too lazy to compute how much that represents compared to their mining (~8% of the hashrate presently, which means ~12 × 25 BTC every day).


It would be perfectly logical to consider $400 a low price a year ago, and $230 a high price today... 

Anyway, miners have an obvious incentive to lie and hide their sales.  Whether they hold or sell immediately, they very much want everybody else to buy and hold.  

That is totally reasonable. And works for as long as the miners can continue to raise extra funding from this type of VC, who in reality, may aswell buy and hold BTC themselves (on or off exchange) and not take the risk on the company and what it may or may not do with or wthout their permission.

EDIT: I guess we will never really know, so its kind of an endless and pointless discussion at the end of the day ... but this is the SPECUALTION forum so we don't need 'facts' 

There's another way to look at this (I think). You either mine to sell instantly or you mine because you or your investors want coins. Coins that would otherwise have been bought at exchanges. Either way they're absorbed by the market.

Coin

Explanation

priceless!

You guys are bad at trading. Looking at the daily charts the major resistance and supply area is around $300. Whenever price hit that area there was massive selling. Most likely that will be the top in the near term, then it will either go back down to the $220's or hopefully would break the $300 and then retest it on heading higher.

I don't see it breaking $300 yet, maybe closer to the halving.

The network is at 500 petahash  and the machines are pulling an average of 0.5w/gh (Ant s3 0.7w/gh, SP-tech 0.6w/gh, ant s5 0.5w/gh and newer gear 0.25w/gh).



I think a lot of miners see BTC as undervalued now and want to hold as much as possible until the price heads north. That's a messy business model, so I'm not sure how many can convince their investment partners to agree to it. But I seriously doubt that there are that many who don't have a business model where the mine pays its own bills. As in where bills are paid out of the owners pockets rather than selling minted coins. They are probably out there, but I don't think they're a major factor.

However, there is a reason why I wrote "if you assume". I can't wholeheartedly support this theory. It may very well be that a large majority converts all of their coins fairly immediately. That's a tidy and safe business model..... then again, nothing is safe in Bitcoinland. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well to be clear the myth is that miners sell those coins on the market which would definitely affect the price.

In reality it isn't so black and white and a considerable portion of coins are certainly held by these same miners.

 

Yes, I'm sure millionaires that have probably been mining since the double digits days are quite bothered by a price drop.

.... or maybe not http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-details-100-million-georgia-data-center/

3600 coins are created daily. demand absorbs them, otherwise price would fall. nothing mythical about it.

I've been making that assumption. But is there any evidence?


are you suggesting they should start to HODL more? (I agree of course)

but that would make the price go up in anticipation of the halving!?!

A lesson?

They don't care, because

If they are not selling their coins, then they need to raise *an* amount of fresh capital (or use reserves) every day to cover production costs and keep the lights on. Either way, the money has to come into the system unless they have 'free' electricity. If they are not selling the production it is hard to see how much of the new funding can go into development of infrastructure in an environment of falling prices (which presumably means they are even more reluctant to sell ...)

Well, I guess we know now where the VC money is really going. Whether that was their intention or not is another matter ...
Probably gives them a bit of extra leeway to 'massage' the market ... can't believe they would sit on their hands and not buy more if it they were too cheap to sell at $350-$400 ish ...

... can you read?


If 350-400$ was a low price back then what do you believe they consider 250 nowadays?

Spare me with your trolling...

No, their funding round is likely to develop new ASIC technology and develop their infrastructure.

As I've said previously they've had other revenue sources in the past which might still pay for their existing costs.

Moreover I'm quite confident their energy costs are absurdly low since they seem to have quite a special relation with the government where their farms are set up (Georgia)

The quote is not from that article, but from this one: http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-raises-20-million-asic-development-mining-output/, dated 9th October 2014, when BTC was around 350-400 USD. Back then it was quite fashionable for miners to not sell their Bitcoins, what could possibly go wrong after all?

Make it half that

So, their funding rounds are basically to pay for their costs while they hold their coins. How could that possibly go wrong? 

Weekly update: https://www.facebook.com/MMMGlobalRB/videos/vl.1036580956373009/406671159525960/?type=1&theater

tl;dr: "Hello, here is the news. Everything is wonderful in the Republic of Bitcoin. "