Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 20992. (Read 26619992 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002

The urgency isn't even in block size or scalability. The urgency is in fixing the goddamn decision-making process among the core devs.  You think Hearn was wrong about that?


From an objective standpoint, looking at Hearn's contributions as a whole (the database change that caused the first fork, the redlisting coins proposal, and XT in particular) I think one could come to the logical conclusion that Hearn has been compromised by the NSA or some other three letter agency, likely recruited while he was still with Google.

You're not answering my question. Has the decision making process broken down or not? Has their even been a joint statement among the core devs regarding this controversy been issued? No, of course not. It's fucking embarrassing. Give us a time frame on when the block size patch will be implemented. something.

The beauty of Bitcoin is that we don't have to trust Hearn or Gavin or anybody. We trust the code. We trust a valid argument, no matter who makes it. Core devs need to get their shit together toot sweet. If it takes a hard fork to make that happen, so be it.



they're all getting together for a talk-fest, kumbay-aaah session and maybe a group hug at the end before satisfying your demands for releasing a joint statement ... and then they'll delay some more and have another talk-fest in Hong Kong in December ... no panic, no rush, just some measured think-sessions by the thought leaders.

https://scalingbitcoin.org/montreal2015/

legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women

The beauty of Bitcoin is that we don't have to trust Hearn or Gavin or anybody. We trust the code. We trust a valid argument, no matter who makes it. Core devs need to get their shit together toot sweet. If it takes a hard fork to make that happen, so be it.



they're all getting together for a talk-fest, kumbay-aaah session and maybe a group hug at the end before satisfying your demands for releasing a joint statement ... and then they'll delay some more and have another talk-fest in Hong Kong in December ... no panic, no rush, just some measured think-sessions by the thought leaders.

So far I haven't seen any leadership among these "thought leaders". A time frame for a joint statement about a time frame does not exactly instill confidence. Last time we really had an urgent problem (backwards compatibility), Gavin took the reins and it got handled. If we had a similar crises, who would have the street cred to pull that off now?

If Gox taught us anything it's that no news is bad news. Miners want higher transaction fees and they will end up with a bigger slice of a smaller pie if this continues. They can't win but they can make us all lose. By opposing a block size increase for whatever reason, they limit the value of the coins they sell and I as one of their main customers will shop elsewhere.


member
Activity: 115
Merit: 10
We are going down from 280$ to 220$ in less than 10 days because two shills want to prove their might by forking bitcoin?

The answer from community is clear now, Gavin & Mike ?



I think Gavin & Mike are quite content seeing that the uptake of XT among nodes passed 13% in just 4 days, and that two blocks have already been mined with it. That's a clear answer from the community so far.


I think these two points of view sum up the gap between the viewpoints nicely.

Comment 1 is talking about store of value ie they may or may not actually prefer core over xt but certainly do not like it when the prospect of moving to one option lowers their wealth.

Comment 2 is saying that the community will decide and the resulting effect longer term on the price is a "cost" that has to be borne as the community decides things not wealth movements.

While comment 2 is "purer' in bitcoin terms than comment 1, comment 1 reflects more where bitcoin has got to after 6? years ie that changes cannot be now seen in isolation. For example I would say this core/xt argument is not only hurting the price but will lead to no new merchant acceptance.

I am not sure these two viewpoints are easily reconciled and will rise much more frequently from now on in all things to do with bitcoin
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
Many of us hope that cheap prices remain until a later date and the later date is becoming nearer and nearer. That means the good times will come sooner so it's high time to load up on the coin. Cheers!
are you sure with it ?
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1001
Many of us hope that cheap prices remain until a later date and the later date is becoming nearer and nearer. That means the good times will come sooner so it's high time to load up on the coin. Cheers!
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
We are going down from 280$ to 220$ in less than 10 days because two shills want to prove their might by forking bitcoin?

The answer from community is clear now, Gavin & Mike ?



I think Gavin & Mike are quite content seeing that the uptake of XT among nodes passed 13% in just 4 days, and that two blocks have already been mined with it. That's a clear answer from the community so far.


yeah, the answer from the "community" has so far mostly been FO! with your fud
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1001
stop with the FUD and sloganeering ... bitcoin can scale just fine without the induced faux panic and manufactured fork missile crises circus (as much fun as the drama is).

Personally, I'm hoping the bargain price remains until about next month, September 26th. Until then, I'm very happy to see low prices. I'm saving money to place an order, soon. I'll be adding another 0.4 BTC to my wallet, maybe. Yes, I am that poor  Undecided but I'm doing fine, putting a little into bitcoin at a time.
That .4 will be a lion's share in the future, just keep that in mind. You should be very proud of that addition. Your wealth will be the envy of everyone that you know that has no idea nor concept of what the next wave up that bitcoin can offer. It's coming, so chill and reap it.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 737
Merit: 500
We are going down from 280$ to 220$ in less than 10 days because two shills want to prove their might by forking bitcoin?

The answer from community is clear now, Gavin & Mike ?



I think Gavin & Mike are quite content seeing that the uptake of XT among nodes passed 13% in just 4 days, and that two blocks have already been mined with it. That's a clear answer from the community so far.
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo

The urgency isn't even in block size or scalability. The urgency is in fixing the goddamn decision-making process among the core devs.  You think Hearn was wrong about that?


From an objective standpoint, looking at Hearn's contributions as a whole (the database change that caused the first fork, the redlisting coins proposal, and XT in particular) I think one could come to the logical conclusion that Hearn has been compromised by the NSA or some other three letter agency, likely recruited while he was still with Google.

You're not answering my question. Has the decision making process broken down or not? Has their even been a joint statement among the core devs regarding this controversy been issued? No, of course not. It's fucking embarrassing. Give us a time frame on when the block size patch will be implemented. something.

The beauty of Bitcoin is that we don't have to trust Hearn or Gavin or anybody. We trust the code. We trust a valid argument, no matter who makes it. Core devs need to get their shit together toot sweet. If it takes a hard fork to make that happen, so be it.



they're all getting together for a talk-fest, kumbay-aaah session and maybe a group hug at the end before satisfying your demands for releasing a joint statement ... and then they'll delay some more and have another talk-fest in Hong Kong in December ... no panic, no rush, just some measured think-sessions by the thought leaders.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women

The urgency isn't even in block size or scalability. The urgency is in fixing the goddamn decision-making process among the core devs.  You think Hearn was wrong about that?


From an objective standpoint, looking at Hearn's contributions as a whole (the database change that caused the first fork, the redlisting coins proposal, and XT in particular) I think one could come to the logical conclusion that Hearn has been compromised by the NSA or some other three letter agency, likely recruited while he was still with Google.

You're not answering my question. Has the decision making process broken down or not? Has their even been a joint statement among the core devs regarding this controversy been issued? No, of course not. It's fucking embarrassing. Give us a time frame on when the block size patch will be implemented. something.

The beauty of Bitcoin is that we don't have to trust Hearn or Gavin or anybody. We trust the code. We trust a valid argument, no matter who makes it. Core devs need to get their shit together toot sweet. If it takes a hard fork to make that happen, so be it.

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz

The urgency isn't even in block size or scalability. The urgency is in fixing the goddamn decision-making process among the core devs.  You think Hearn was wrong about that?


From an objective standpoint, looking at Hearn's contributions as a whole (the database change that caused the first fork, the redlisting coins proposal, and XT in particular) I think one could come to the logical conclusion that Hearn has been compromised by the NSA or some other three letter agency, likely recruited while he was still with Google.

legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women

stop with the FUD and sloganeering ... bitcoin can scale just fine without the induced faux panic and manufactured fork missile crises circus (as much fun as the drama is).

No kidding.

Garzik's original proposal http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/BIP100-blocksizechangeproposal.pdf  is a far superior solution compared to XT. These kind of proposals are the way bitcoin is supposed to evolve. You make proposal, everyone checks it out and makes suggestions and changes, you iterate this process several times until you've got something everyone agrees on.

But no, instead people want to push through an ill-conceived idea that involves 8GB blocks in twenty years along with whatever else is packaged into the XT client because Hearn says the sky is falling.

We've had sustained spam attacks for extended periods and as long as you're not an idiot and attach an appropriate fee, they don't affect you.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be dumbed down or compromised to achieve its primary goal; money that is outside the control of governments and central banks.

You're missing the point. It's not that bitcoin will die, it's that the devs who can't make a decision and the miners who oppose increasing block size ever will become irrelevant and effectively dead to the project.
hero member
Activity: 513
Merit: 511
stop with the FUD and sloganeering ... bitcoin can scale just fine without the induced faux panic and manufactured fork missile crises circus (as much fun as the drama is).

Personally, I'm hoping the bargain price remains until about next month, September 26th. Until then, I'm very happy to see low prices. I'm saving money to place an order, soon. I'll be adding another 0.4 BTC to my wallet, maybe. Yes, I am that poor  Undecided but I'm doing fine, putting a little into bitcoin at a time.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz

stop with the FUD and sloganeering ... bitcoin can scale just fine without the induced faux panic and manufactured fork missile crises circus (as much fun as the drama is).

No kidding.

Garzik's original proposal http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/BIP100-blocksizechangeproposal.pdf  is a far superior solution compared to XT. These kind of proposals are the way bitcoin is supposed to evolve. You make proposal, everyone checks it out and makes suggestions and changes, you iterate this process several times until you've got something everyone agrees on.

But no, instead people want to push through an ill-conceived idea that involves 8GB blocks in twenty years along with whatever else is packaged into the XT client because Hearn says the sky is falling.

We've had sustained spam attacks for extended periods and as long as you're not an idiot and attach an appropriate fee, they don't affect you.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be dumbed down or compromised to achieve its primary goal; money that is outside the control of governments and central banks.
hero member
Activity: 1526
Merit: 597
Crap , I missed another bitpocalypse!

When is the next one scheduled?

Soon.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women

Speaking of gold: Gold has been demonetized (ie, there are no gold coins in circulation as national currencies), so it's not like millions of gold transactions are happening every day. In terms of transactions per second, it's not very unlike Bitcoin. Yet, the ~5.8bn ounces / ~180 kilotons of gold have a marketcap of 6.5 trillion USD.

BTC is digital gold. It doesn't need to scale its transactions to billions per day for fear of death. You are only looking at the transaction aspect / epayment system aspect, and you are overlooking the store-of-value aspect.

The store-of-value aspect of Bitcoin benefits massively from the ability of any individual to run a full wallet, with the entire blockchain, and the individual being able to be their own banker and have their own bitcoins under their control, while these BTCs appreciate even from their ...non-use and scarcity, relative to the fiat money supply which is inflating and devaluing itself.

So which is it? You want smaller block size so we only use bitcoin for settlements or you want people to be their own banks? You can't have both.


Quote

Bitcoin, aside from being a coin and payment system, is also code that can be cloned/duplicated in altcoins... so it can scale if you make multiple bitcoin-like coins, use them for fast and cheap transactions and then discard them in the long run when their blockchain is bloated (if they can't be pruned). It's like using silver, copper and nickel for other coins that are traded daily, while you leave your gold coin under the mattress.

Right now we are using our gold for dust transactions of a few thousand satoshis and pretend that we need larger block sizes. This is ridiculous waste of blockchain space - which represents a barrier to entry as it increases in size (not to mention what happens when it increases dramatically, in terms of mining, centralization etc). Let the fees take care of this kind of waste and not multiply this wasteful behavior.


This is like the people who worried that browsers would clog up internet traffic back in the early nineties. or  worries about picture files. or sound files. or video.  1TB hard drives are cheaper than a carton of cigarettes. Next year 10 TB drives will be.  It's a bullshit argument.

Quote
Dogecoin, IIRC has 1mb blocks per minute, so, in that sense, it scales 10x compared to BTC - which is even larger than XT. But it's not like people are saying "hey the dog can scale like crazy, let's all buy the dog and go to the moon"...

I mean why hasn't anyone brought it up as a major selling point for altcoins like LTC (4x), DASH / DRK (4x), DOGE (10x) that they can scale much more than BTC due to their more frequent blocks (of similar size) if that's all it takes to overtake bitcoin, that will supposedly die from not scaling, while these coins have already "solved" that and thus they will scale much better?

If it was such an issue, the money would have already decided in favor of altcoins that are "better" than the "flawed" Bitcoin - which is also "flawed" with its very slow confirmations compared to most alts that are lightening fast when, say, you deposit into an exchange. But the reality is that the parameters of Bitcoin are known for years. People know that btc is more expensive in its tx's, that it's slower, etc etc, yet it is still dominating the crypto-market due to the store-of-value aspect which seems to be (to the market) more important than the transaction aspect.
 

The urgency isn't even in block size or scalability. The urgency is in fixing the goddamn decision-making process among the core devs.  You think Hearn was wrong about that?

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Speaking of gold: Gold has been demonetized (ie, there are no gold coins in circulation as national currencies), so it's not like millions of gold transactions are happening every day. In terms of transactions per second, it's not very unlike Bitcoin. Yet, the ~5.8bn ounces / ~180 kilotons of gold have a marketcap of 6.5 trillion USD.

You make the case about as well as it can be made. But there's a few problems. The raw amount of transactions in gold is necessarily small. After all, to really transact in metals at a distance you have to pack a lump of metal in some packaging and mail it. Bitcoin is greatly advantaged in this respect. But it is not advantaged with the blessing of the periodic table, people laugh at altcoins, but they really are the competition. They do what bitcoin does, just with less liquidity. To just wave your hands and say "Network Effect" is not sufficient to equate it with a rare, dense, non-corrosive, and shiny when polished metal.
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