Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 21058. (Read 26710084 times)

legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
So is everyone supposed to sell their coins and then repurchase them on Bitcoin XT?
And where do you go to buy Bitcoin XT coins?
Just on the contrary! If you buy bitcoins now will give the opportunity to spend same coins twice both on Bitcoin and XT networks in future if there is a split at all. So, if you buy 1 bitcoin now you actually buy 2 bitcoins if XT altcoin succeeds in being true alternative to bitcoin!

I don't think this is correct.

If curious, this is an example of what will actually happen once bitcoin forks:

http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/


That linked article is from January 2015.  Are the ideas contained therein still current, 7 months later?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
Can somebody explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old:

XT is supposed to make bitcoin futureproof, but how is it going to achieve that, when it can be spammed up to ~1.15gb / day, meaning that it'll take just 100 days for a determined attacker to increase the blockchain to +115gb, and around a year to take it up half a terabyte. Is this "futureproofing" or ensuring that the future of bitcoin is one where it dies out of bloat and where no-one wants to download it?

Increasing the fees within the 1mb limit is a far more acceptable strategy. If that means bitcoin not doing microtransactions (at least in the traditional / on-chain way), so be it. Gold coins weren't used for microtransactions either, they had silver and copper coins for that.

Exactly, XT offers nothing other than kicking the can, and removing all scarcity from the blockchain. This dramatically increases the potential attack vectors.

A far more thoughtful and sane way of allowing the blocksize to grow is detailed here.  <- you may need to be more than five to understand it, but it's a quite straightforward and elegant solution.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
So is everyone supposed to sell their coins and then repurchase them on Bitcoin XT?
And where do you go to buy Bitcoin XT coins?
Just on the contrary! If you buy bitcoins now will give the opportunity to spend same coins twice both on Bitcoin and XT networks in future if there is a split at all. So, if you buy 1 bitcoin now you actually buy 2 bitcoins if XT altcoin succeeds in being true alternative to bitcoin!

I don't think this is correct.

If curious, this is an example of what will actually happen once bitcoin forks:

http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
what's the blue thing below explanation in the chartguy's posts?

It's a protest at the censorship going on over on Reddit.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Ahahaha, it's a crucial time for everyone.
Every day is crucial for bitcoin during last 6 years. Nothing really new here.


Are we going to get another $10 to $20 downward adjustment in BTC prices before returning to the uptrend?

I have NOT sold, and I am just attempting to figure  out the best point to buy some more.  I already bought a bunch of BTC in the $260 range, so, maybe it would be nice to pick up a few more in the $240s, that is if prices are going to go into the $240s... Further, who wants to buy in the $240s, if they are able to get some coins in the $230s?
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
I have never run a full node, the only knowledge I have of the experience is from posts by others here. Spider-Carnage said his computer took about 4 days to index the blockchain, and I have heard others complaining of longer durations. I have sometimes read posts by the operators of exchanges saying Bitcoin withdrawals will be delayed for hours while they reindex their Bitcoin wallet. If this problem is ignored such delays will get longer. It would be better to deal with the problem before things get any worse, and if it's possible to fix it and make running a full node as effortless as syncing your icloud account then more people will start running full nodes to help the network.

The blockchain does take a long time to download and index. It did when I first downloaded qt three years ago and it takes a hell of a lot longer now. It's long even when I haven't been running it for a week (which is why I'm moving to running it full time on a separate server). If an exchange is down for long periods of time for reindexing, however, that is just shitty exchange design.
newbie
Activity: 30
Merit: 0
what's the blue thing below explanation in the chartguy's posts?
legendary
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
Ahahaha, it's a crucial time for everyone.
Every day is crucial for bitcoin during last 6 years. Nothing really new here.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Do nodes really matter though if miners don't switch to XT?

Yes of course, miners without nodes are useless. Because the nodes broadcast the transactions through the network, so actually it is best firstly the nodes and after the miners (aka big pool).
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Do nodes really matter though if miners don't switch to XT?
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250

Can somebody explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old:

XT is supposed to make bitcoin futureproof, but how is it going to achieve that, when it can be spammed up to ~1.15gb / day, meaning that it'll take just 100 days for a determined attacker to increase the blockchain to +115gb, and around a year to take it up half a terabyte.

Terabyte hard drives are standard now. A year from now 5 TB drives will be standard. That's a worst case scenario and could still be easily handled. 

The worst case scenario is that someone starts spamming the blockchain with the 8mb blocks. Then, next thing you know, people will say "ohh these 8mb blocks are full, we need bigger blocks". Then you get 20mb blocks and ~3gb/day of bloat / >1 tb per year. And who is to stop them spamming the 20mb blocks and getting them full too? What's next? We'll be asking for 100mb blocks? This is madness.

Personally I don't believe that even the 750k/1mb blocks are full by legitimate transactions and not bogus transactions. I believe these bogus transactions are created to stir a "debate" about "ohh we need bigger blocks" and stuff so that we can then go on and shoot ourselves in the foot by "accepting" larger blocks as the "natural evolution".

We have to deal with a reality here: Big banks, credit cards, swift etc, don't want BTC to succeed. Bloating it is a very cheap way they can use to kill it. It's much cheaper than a 51% and cheaper than manipulating the BTC market. And it will be FAAAAAAAAAR cheaper to enable that attack vector with 8mb or 20mb blocks.

1MB blocks actually incentivize a spammer, as we saw during the tx spam exercises of the last weeks. Reason: it's much cheaper to do. Spammers get their transactions (and attached fees) kicked out of the mempool after not getting into maxed out blocks. This allows them to just do it over and over again, much more cheaply than if those tx were actually included in a block with their fees collected by the miners. The scenario you propose would be much more expensive to sustain with larger blocks, with that increased expense going to the miners.

Node concentration is a concern with more demanding requirements for running a full node, and should not be ignored, but staying at 2.7 tx per second to infinity is potentially much more damaging to this grand experiment. We'll never know how it might impact node count and concentration unless we do a modest increase and measure the result.

The intransigence and vitriol coming from MP, the PR gal, and his toadies is a sign of the weakness inherent in their position. Rather than appeal to reasoned judgement, it devolves into name calling and fear mongering in a grand ego stroking exercise. There will be no larger blocks unless 75% of solved blocks are made by nodes supporting >1MB, this means consensus will have already happened, and the orphaned chain will die quickly as <25% of hashing power will face an impossible difficulty. My prediction is that the 25% will quickly upgrade so they are mining the chain that will actually be worth something.

There's no question this debate and stalemate has been impacting confidence in the exchange rate, and rightly so. On a positive note, once this is settled and Bitcoin has a tx throughput that isn't laughable for a global p2p digital cash system... the fear dissolves and we can dust off those old moon boots.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Lol I feel sorry for people coming into BTC for the first time and having to decipher all of this. Shit is crazy. Whatever, I'm holding til the end.


Ahahaha, it's a crucial time for everyone. I hope all the bitcoin will choose the right thing--- because sooner or later the block size must increase.
legendary
Activity: 2002
Merit: 1040
Lol I feel sorry for people coming into BTC for the first time and having to decipher all of this. Shit is crazy. Whatever, I'm holding til the end.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 251
Bitcoin XT just became the third largest user agent:
https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women

Can somebody explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old:

XT is supposed to make bitcoin futureproof, but how is it going to achieve that, when it can be spammed up to ~1.15gb / day, meaning that it'll take just 100 days for a determined attacker to increase the blockchain to +115gb, and around a year to take it up half a terabyte.


Terabyte hard drives are standard now. A year from now 5 TB drives will be standard. That's a worst case scenario and could still be easily handled.  




It's not only the physical sizeof the hard drive needed to store the blockchain that's causing problems. The length of time it takes to index the blockchain is getting longer as the size of the blockchain increases. That creates problems for anyone running a full wallet that needs to use it in a hurry if it takes hours, days, or weeks to index.


oh, right. Because bandwidth never increases and CPUs never get faster.  These arguments are bullshit. What's the real reason here?  is this FUD to drive the price down or is this some game of chicken between different factions to see who can rule That Which Cannot Be Ruled tm?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
this, and the fact that the free fee market would solve any traffic glut is what make me suspect that the blocksize crusade is just an inside job for a controlled demolition of btc.

The worst case scenario is that someone starts spamming the blockchain with the 8mb blocks. Then, next thing you know, people will say "ohh these 8mb blocks are full, we need bigger blocks". Then you get 20mb blocks and ~3gb/day of bloat / >1 tb per year. And who is to stop them spamming the 20mb blocks and getting them full too? What's next? We'll be asking for 100mb blocks? This is madness.

Personally I don't believe that even the 750k/1mb blocks are full by legitimate transactions and not bogus transactions. I believe these bogus transactions are created to stir a "debate" about "ohh we need bigger blocks" and stuff so that we can then go on and shoot ourselves in the foot by "accepting" larger blocks as the "natural evolution".

We have to deal with a reality here: Big banks, credit cards, swift etc, don't want BTC to succeed. Bloating it is a very cheap way they can use to kill it. It's much cheaper than a 51% and cheaper than manipulating the BTC market. And it will be FAAAAAAAAAR cheaper to enable that attack vector with 8mb or 20mb blocks.

The banks are all on the outside looking in, doing nothing. They think they can wait to see if it succeeds, maybe the second, third or fourth generation, then go all in using their share size power, and depending on the state to fend off competition. Not this time, bitcoin is the real thing, there is no second take.

Or...for savers, the second take is to go in now, late compared to the Elder Whales, but early compared to just about anyone else.

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
There will only be a fork once 75% have moved to XT. Up to that point there is but one chain.  Once the fork occurs, there will be a very rapid migration of the remainder to the consensus chain. There will be no extended period of duplicate chains.

How do you know how long this will take and what the consequences will be in the meantime? Define extended period? As far as I understand it, this is going to be messy as hell and even if the old chain is sold into oblivion in 72 hours, the PR damage will be permanent and who knows who is going to get scammed or which transactions will get completely fucked in the meantime.

The main reason for a short life of two paralell coins, is that liquidity the the all importan statistics. Two coins almost exactly the same is totally unstable. It has to lean to one side or the other, then the one with smaller popularity will take the liquidity hit and land hard.



"As to what will happen if/ when there is a hardfork:

Currently MultiBit Classic and HD both will follow the chain with the most work done in it.
Thus in a hardfork all the existing MultiBit code will follow the 'winner'. This is how the normal one or two block forks (that occur reasonably frequently) get resolved so it should just be the same but on a larger scale.

Both MultiBit Classic and HD connects to Bitcoin Core and XT happily and they should work correctly with larger blocks. The bloom filtered blocks Core/ XT send back to MultiBit are the same - MultiBit is agnostic about connecting to Core or XT."

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12154185

So all over in about twenty minutes or so.

That is just one wallet... Everyone needs to have a similar feature already built into their systems before that majority hits. At the current rate of adoption that looks to be less than 3 weeks away.

I want every wallet provider, electrum, mytrezor, mycelium... to declare where they stand. There should be enough time, no rush.

Jump to: