plus anyone could explain the hell is "Each GBTC share represents ownership of approximately 0.1 bitcoin" supposed to mean? is one share 1/10th of an bitcoin or not?
0.1 BTC - fees
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 21807. (Read 26608255 times)
May 04, 2015, 03:42:31 PM
0.1 BTC - fees
May 04, 2015, 03:40:45 PM
First trade is showing up on http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote now
I now hold Bitcoin in my Roth IRA, purchased from Ameritrade.
No different than buying any other stock. (OK, pink sheets, so you must use limit orders, but you get the idea.)
I've waited years for this day! Can't wait to see what happens next.
I miiiiight have a bit of a bullish bias here ;-)
Is this with or rather through a self-funded roth ira? Sorry, I'm not overly familiar and just wanted to pick your brains a bit. This seems, well frankly, like an amazing vehicle for preserving growth.
So, if I understand correctly, you would have deposited up to $5500 for the year of contributions or how ever little; then you just bought the individual shares.
The money you've spent on this has already been taxed. So, assuming it is a qualified withdrawal; if you bought basically a coin at $420, if at the time it is withdrawn, the coin/share is now worth $1,000; you do not pay taxes on that $580 increase in value? And likewise; if the coin is worth say $32,000... you wouldn't pay tax on that additionally $31,000 in appreciation assuming it's a valid withdrawal?
That seems almost to good to be true lol. How is this not amazing!? lol?
To my knowledge, that is correct. (Consult your own accountant, blahblahblah disclaimer).
It is why I have been waiting for this day for years.
Anyone with retirement funds can now buy Bitcoin.
The faucet JUST opened, and the supply is not yet even a dribble.
It is simply unbelievable that $133.7 could be used to set an all time high.
I so badly wish it was represented on the charts.
It's showing
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote
So... who is still on a bear side?
bid side: 45$ top.
plus anyone could explain the hell is "Each GBTC share represents ownership of approximately 0.1 bitcoin" supposed to mean? is one share 1/10th of an
May 04, 2015, 03:21:53 PM
First trade is showing up on http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote now
I now hold Bitcoin in my Roth IRA, purchased from Ameritrade.
No different than buying any other stock. (OK, pink sheets, so you must use limit orders, but you get the idea.)
I've waited years for this day! Can't wait to see what happens next.
I miiiiight have a bit of a bullish bias here ;-)
Is this with or rather through a self-funded roth ira? Sorry, I'm not overly familiar and just wanted to pick your brains a bit. This seems, well frankly, like an amazing vehicle for preserving growth.
So, if I understand correctly, you would have deposited up to $5500 for the year of contributions or how ever little; then you just bought the individual shares.
The money you've spent on this has already been taxed. So, assuming it is a qualified withdrawal; if you bought basically a coin at $420, if at the time it is withdrawn, the coin/share is now worth $1,000; you do not pay taxes on that $580 increase in value? And likewise; if the coin is worth say $32,000... you wouldn't pay tax on that additionally $31,000 in appreciation assuming it's a valid withdrawal?
That seems almost to good to be true lol. How is this not amazing!? lol?
To my knowledge, that is correct. (Consult your own accountant, blahblahblah disclaimer).
It is why I have been waiting for this day for years.
Anyone with retirement funds can now buy Bitcoin.
The faucet JUST opened, and the supply is not yet even a dribble.
It is simply unbelievable that $133.7 could be used to set an all time high.
I so badly wish it was represented on the charts.
It's showing
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote
May 04, 2015, 03:18:22 PM
May 04, 2015, 02:57:59 PM
May 04, 2015, 02:37:43 PM
...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
...
It means that the network is becoming cheaper to attack, basically. Satoshi was working from the assumption that the cost of mining will approach the price of the coins mined. If the TX fees don't increase substantially when block reward is halved, interesting stuff will happen: Hangers full of mining gear will suddenly become unprofitable to mine with -> available dirt-cheap for more creative use, like 51% attack.
Worrying about mining being unprofitable in a years time is silly.
We heard the same stuff before the first halving. Miners would stop and the difficulty would be so difficult that it would never adjust, blocks would take years to complete.
It was all true. Bitcoin ended that day. The bears won.
That explains all of the confusion. Elwar, you and me.. we make a great team.
Let's let the rest of the world know what really happened November 28th, 2012
May 04, 2015, 02:32:42 PM
...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
...
It means that the network is becoming cheaper to attack, basically. Satoshi was working from the assumption that the cost of mining will approach the price of the coins mined. If the TX fees don't increase substantially when block reward is halved, interesting stuff will happen: Hangers full of mining gear will suddenly become unprofitable to mine with -> available dirt-cheap for more creative use, like 51% attack.
Worrying about mining being unprofitable in a years time is silly.
We heard the same stuff before the first halving. Miners would stop and the difficulty would be so difficult that it would never adjust, blocks would take years to complete.
It was all true. Bitcoin ended that day. The bears won.
May 04, 2015, 02:25:52 PM
...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
...
It means that the network is becoming cheaper to attack, basically. Satoshi was working from the assumption that the cost of mining will approach the price of the coins mined. If the TX fees don't increase substantially when block reward is halved, interesting stuff will happen: Hangers full of mining gear will suddenly become unprofitable to mine with -> available dirt-cheap for more creative use, like 51% attack.
No. Total fees paid to miners tend to increase as the number of transactions per day increases.
Thus it would seem that the network simultaneously grows both stronger and more cost-effective as the number of transactions per day increases.
May 04, 2015, 02:23:32 PM
...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
...
It means that the network is becoming cheaper to attack, basically. Satoshi was working from the assumption that the cost of mining will approach the price of the coins mined. If the TX fees don't increase substantially when block reward is halved, interesting stuff will happen: Hangers full of mining gear will suddenly become unprofitable to mine with -> available dirt-cheap for more creative use, like 51% attack.
Worrying about mining being unprofitable in a years time is silly.
May 04, 2015, 02:16:56 PM
Aww, what's happening now... Let's just hope that we'll form a double-bottom on the short-term support line that's been established over the last few days and bounce right back into the $240s... I don't feel comfortable leaving this uptrend-channel 
It's a probing bot that pushes the market down on low volume to absorb selling, catch stops, etc. It puts big hidden orders right above the market so the price can't move up, market sells a bit to make the amateur traders nervous, catches what it can of the selling, then reverses. Very clever.
Huh, highly interesting! Is that also the reason why BitFinex's orderbook seems to be broken on Bitcoinwisdom? It seems to shift every 5 seconds or so... What's up with that? Also, does this mean the price is going to break back up in an hour or so?
It's working on Bitcoinity, so I doubt that's the reason for any Bitcoinwisdom problems.
Well, Bitcoinity is screwing up their depth graph so often that maybe a potential glitch in Finex's API is counteracting Bitcoinity's depth-graph glitches?
*scnr* 
May 04, 2015, 02:10:53 PM
Ask wall on stamp is gone.
May 04, 2015, 02:09:59 PM
Aww, what's happening now... Let's just hope that we'll form a double-bottom on the short-term support line that's been established over the last few days and bounce right back into the $240s... I don't feel comfortable leaving this uptrend-channel
It's a probing bot that pushes the market down on low volume to absorb selling, catch stops, etc. It puts big hidden orders right above the market so the price can't move up, market sells a bit to make the amateur traders nervous, catches what it can of the selling, then reverses. Very clever.
Huh, highly interesting! Is that also the reason why BitFinex's orderbook seems to be broken on Bitcoinwisdom? It seems to shift every 5 seconds or so... What's up with that? Also, does this mean the price is going to break back up in an hour or so?
It's working on Bitcoinity, so I doubt that's the reason for any Bitcoinwisdom problems.
May 04, 2015, 02:08:40 PM
Tim Swanson thinks transactions cost 25 BTC divided by the number of transactions in a block. That's a complete misunderstanding of not just what the block reward does but of what Bitcoin even is. He has gathered some interesting data, but his analysis is unlikely to be of much use as he has no fundamental understanding of Bitcoin in the first place.
…Right now, that entity gets 25 BTC (~6000 USD) for each validated block, and the average block contains 750 transactions. So the miners are being paid ~8 USD for each transaction that they process, on average.
In percentage terms, the transactions in a block move about 280'000 USD, on average (excluding presumed "return change" outputs); so the miners' revenue is about 2% of the money that they move.
There is not much room for misunderstanding there. Right now, the bitcoin network is way too expensive for the service that it renders.
...
This inspired me to produce a historical chart of "miners' revenue as a percentage of the money they move." Not unexpectedly, this percentage is decreasing as the number of transactions per day increases.
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?
May 04, 2015, 01:59:08 PM
Aww, what's happening now... Let's just hope that we'll form a double-bottom on the short-term support line that's been established over the last few days and bounce right back into the $240s... I don't feel comfortable leaving this uptrend-channel
It's a probing bot that pushes the market down on low volume to absorb selling, catch stops, etc. It puts big hidden orders right above the market so the price can't move up, market sells a bit to make the amateur traders nervous, catches what it can of the selling, then reverses. Very clever.
Huh, highly interesting! Is that also the reason why BitFinex's orderbook seems to be broken on Bitcoinwisdom? It seems to shift every 5 seconds or so... What's up with that? Also, does this mean the price is going to break back up in an hour or so?
May 04, 2015, 01:57:58 PM
May 04, 2015, 01:54:25 PM
Wow, just came home and discovered GBTC trading! Cool!
And remember may 18th. The date when bitcoin trading starts at Nasdaq Stockholm!
And remember may 18th. The date when bitcoin trading starts at Nasdaq Stockholm!
May 04, 2015, 01:28:04 PM
Aww, what's happening now... Let's just hope that we'll form a double-bottom on the short-term support line that's been established over the last few days and bounce right back into the $240s... I don't feel comfortable leaving this uptrend-channel
It's a probing bot that pushes the market down on low volume to absorb selling, catch stops, etc. It puts big hidden orders right above the market so the price can't move up, market sells a bit to make the amateur traders nervous, catches what it can of the selling, then reverses. Very clever.
Or markets test the resistance at 243, it doesn't break, so it pulls back. No conspiracy
Someone dumping the price lower isn't quite the same as 'it doesn't break'. But if the tape is painted it is still the tape!
May 04, 2015, 01:27:25 PM
Aww, what's happening now... Let's just hope that we'll form a double-bottom on the short-term support line that's been established over the last few days and bounce right back into the $240s... I don't feel comfortable leaving this uptrend-channel
It's a probing bot that pushes the market down on low volume to absorb selling, catch stops, etc. It puts big hidden orders right above the market so the price can't move up, market sells a bit to make the amateur traders nervous, catches what it can of the selling, then reverses. Very clever.
Or markets test the resistance at 243, it doesn't break, so it pulls back. No conspiracy
The hidden walls give it away. I've seen "it" at work at least a dozen times. No conspiracy, just clever traders taking advantage.
May 04, 2015, 01:23:45 PM
Aww, what's happening now... Let's just hope that we'll form a double-bottom on the short-term support line that's been established over the last few days and bounce right back into the $240s... I don't feel comfortable leaving this uptrend-channel
It's a probing bot that pushes the market down on low volume to absorb selling, catch stops, etc. It puts big hidden orders right above the market so the price can't move up, market sells a bit to make the amateur traders nervous, catches what it can of the selling, then reverses. Very clever.
Or markets test the resistance at 243, it doesn't break, so it pulls back. No conspiracy
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