Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 21816.

shmadz

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Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 10:24:25 PM

Quote from: shmadz on May 03, 2015, 07:43:32 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 05:49:47 PM

Tim Swanson (who understands bitcoin's economy much better than most bitcoin gurus) is looking at the miners as an entity that performs a service to the "bitcoin system" (validating and securing transactions) in return for a payment (the block rewards and transaction fees).

That's where you and Tim are mistaken prof. You are completely ignoring the main function of the block reward, which is to distribute the tokens.

That may be one intended function of the block reward; but now it is effectively the main payment that miners get for their work. (It is far from ideal for both purposes, though. The 25 BTC reward would be adequate if the price was in the single-digit range; which would be the case, if Satoshi had not been brainwashed by his libertarian friends with that Austrian Economics fiction about deflationary money...)

Thanks to Marcus for bringing my attention to something I had missed.

I'm curious about that bolded part. What, in your opinion, would be a more "ideal" distribution method?

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

More info on the Goldman Sachs story:

Quote

Circle Internet Financial, a bitcoin start-up led by Internet entrepreneur Jeremy Allaire, said it raised $50 million from investors including Goldman Sachs Group Inc., giving the virtual currency a jolt of credibility even as it struggles to gain consumer acceptance.

Circle said the new group of investors included a major Chinese investment firm, IDG Capital Partners, to help the Boston firm's expansion in that giant market.

“We could not be happier with our new strategic investors,” Allaire wrote in a blog post on the company's website. “They bring unique, powerful capabilities and capital that will help us continue building a new kind of global consumer finance company, one based on open platforms, open source software and ubiquitous mobile devices.”

This is gentlemen?

Sources:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-goldman-sachs-bitcoin-20150430-story.html
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/05/03/youll-never-guess-who-is-investing-in-bitcoin.aspx

Dilla

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

I think many expected more news of Gemini and the ETF by May 1st, hence the 300+, that's why I voted for that. Pretty sensible and thought out. Don't think you're a visionary because your prediction was more correct, no one knows really what the future will hold, we can only speculate.

thebitcoinquiz.com

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

I wonder how do these people so easily vote for >300$ in the polls. Do people actually give a thought while voting or do they just vote out of optimism and fun?

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Coin

Explanation

marcus_of_augustus

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Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 10:24:25 PM

Quote from: shmadz on May 03, 2015, 07:43:32 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 05:49:47 PM

Tim Swanson (who understands bitcoin's economy much better than most bitcoin gurus) is looking at the miners as an entity that performs a service to the "bitcoin system" (validating and securing transactions) in return for a payment (the block rewards and transaction fees).

That's where you and Tim are mistaken prof. You are completely ignoring the main function of the block reward, which is to distribute the tokens.

That may be one intended function of the block reward; but now it is effectively the main payment that miners get for their work. (It is far from ideal for both purposes, though. The 25 BTC reward would be adequate if the price was in the single-digit range; which would be the case, if Satoshi had not been brainwashed by his libertarian friends with that Austrian Economics fiction about deflationary money...)

yes satoshi was brainwashed and you are a genius ... ffs, pull your head out of your own ...

the sooner the brazilian taxpayer sues the smugness off your face and gets their wasted money back for your idleness the better for all.

alesx.onfire

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

It's Not Enough

lets see some Big Pump or Dump

shmadz

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Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 04, 2015, 12:09:34 AM

Quote from: shmadz on May 03, 2015, 11:42:53 PM

Poor Stolfi, again I'm reminded of Dr. Robert Stadler.
Enjoy your socialist, inflationary paradise while it lasts, professor.

Is that the "villain" of Atlas Shrugged? If so, well, I guess I am it, what can I do.

It is far from a paradise, but at least it is survivable. As for the ancap libertarian utopia, the only good thing I see in it is that it will collapse immediately if it ever gets implemented...

I wouldn't call him a villain ( and I don't mean to paint you as the villain here either)

In my interpretation, he was merely a short-sighted, misguided professor who had three brilliant students that recognised the problem and walked away from it and built something better, while their "teacher" remained entrenched in the problematic system. (He met a rather unpleasant end, by the way... sorry for the spoiler)

In any case , it was only a fictional tale. Although I disagree with nearly everything you say, I do not wish you ill.

Best of luck, professor.

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: shmadz on May 03, 2015, 11:42:53 PM

Poor Stolfi, again I'm reminded of Dr. Robert Stadler.
Enjoy your socialist, inflationary paradise while it lasts, professor.

Is that the "villain" of Atlas Shrugged? If so, well, I guess I am it, what can I do.

It is far from a paradise, but at least it is survivable. As for the ancap libertarian utopia, the only good thing I see in it is that it will collapse immediately if it ever gets implemented...

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Coin

Explanation

shmadz

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 10:24:25 PM

Quote from: shmadz on May 03, 2015, 07:43:32 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 05:49:47 PM

Tim Swanson (who understands bitcoin's economy much better than most bitcoin gurus) is looking at the miners as an entity that performs a service to the "bitcoin system" (validating and securing transactions) in return for a payment (the block rewards and transaction fees).

That's where you and Tim are mistaken prof. You are completely ignoring the main function of the block reward, which is to distribute the tokens.

That may be one intended function of the block reward; but now it is effectively the main payment that miners get for their work. (It is far from ideal for both purposes, though. The 25 BTC reward would be adequate if the price was in the single-digit range; which would be the case, if Satoshi had not been brainwashed by his libertarian friends with that Austrian Economics fiction about deflationary money...)

Poor Stolfi, again I'm reminded of Dr. Robert Stadler.

Enjoy your socialist, inflationary paradise while it lasts, professor.

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Coin

Explanation

Wings1987

sr. member

Activity: 418

Merit: 250

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on May 03, 2015, 10:21:25 PM

Bids are looking firm as hell on finex. Asks are light. So... down?

Edit: Holding 1/18th of your cash in precious metals? Seems almost recklessly exposed to USD.

Looks like slight uptick. Would be nice if it would run a little bit to end the weekend.

The fake walls have been absent for the last 10-14 days. I am sure they will be back at some point. Anyone else notice that?

Cconvert2G36

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

A small example, I use a few kW of bitmain miners every winter lately(sept-may). Even at break even (about $205) for me, I am harvesting the "waste" heat, offsetting non-negligible fuel costs. Selling the hardware when temps dictate I would need AC to cool them, and yes there is a market for nearly outdated used gear.

The big industrial farms are at a disadvantage compared to these kind of uses, which is offset by scale usually, but they still exist.

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Why do we keep feeding Dr.Troll?

If he wants to save souls he's in the wrong thread. There are none here.

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: hyphymikey on May 03, 2015, 10:07:02 PM

Miners don't sell all 3600 coins. I don't sell the coins I mine (never have), along with many many many other miners.

Then, besides being a miner, you are also one of those "new investors". You are efectively buying your own coins.

I.e. you have been financially supporting the bitcoin system with your own money. The day when you will finally decide to get your due payment, whether in dollars or in lamborghinis, you will have to get it from other new investors -- who will have to buy all the coins that your collagues will issue that day, and also buy your coins for whatever price you expect to get from them.

Sitarow

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Activity: 1792

Merit: 1047

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 10:00:15 PM

Quote from: becoin on May 03, 2015, 06:02:41 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 05:49:47 PM

money which the bitcoin holders have put into the system, and expect to get back from it ---

I've put dollars into bitcoin but I don't expect to get back dollars. I expect to get back goods and services.

It does not matter. If you buy 1 BTC today, the only way you will get 240$ worth of goods tomorrow is if tomorrow's new investors, after buying all the 3600 coins that will be issued tomorrow, will also buy from BitPay the 1 BTC that you spent on said goods.

In time we will look back at the plentiful availability of these "new" subsidy coins. As time goes by those coin's will be harder to come by.

Hopefully merchants will continue to free up the coins they get from purchases and into the hands of those with understanding of how to resourcefully utilize this technology.

BlackSpidy

hero member

Activity: 513

Merit: 511

I'm confident that there will always be miners. Regardless of reward/fees. Why? Look at torrents. There's always seeders if what you're looking for is popular enough. And I'm pretty sure bitcoin will remain very popular.

Cconvert2G36

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

And the number halves in 2016 to 12.5 btc per block. Participants will come and go, adding hashrate and subtracting it to reach economic equilibrium, we know you know this prof.

The only danger is a precipitous drop in hashrate, leading to impossibly long confirmation times and a backed up cache of transactions. Until we hit the adjustment block.

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: shmadz on May 03, 2015, 07:43:32 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on May 03, 2015, 05:49:47 PM

Tim Swanson (who understands bitcoin's economy much better than most bitcoin gurus) is looking at the miners as an entity that performs a service to the "bitcoin system" (validating and securing transactions) in return for a payment (the block rewards and transaction fees).

That's where you and Tim are mistaken prof. You are completely ignoring the main function of the block reward, which is to distribute the tokens.

That may be one intended function of the block reward; but now it is effectively the main payment that miners get for their work. (It is far from ideal for both purposes, though. The 25 BTC reward would be adequate if the price was in the single-digit range; which would be the case, if Satoshi had not been brainwashed by his libertarian friends with that Austrian Economics fiction about deflationary money...)

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