Bids are looking firm as hell on finex. Asks are light. So... down?
Edit: Holding 1/18th of your cash in precious metals? Seems almost recklessly exposed to USD.
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 21817. (Read 26608062 times)
May 03, 2015, 10:21:25 PM
May 03, 2015, 10:16:33 PM
Edit: Overstock.com holds $233,000 worth of bitcoin as of March 31, 2015 Link - Current report
Do they say what price they are using? If it is the price on March 31, 2015 (~250 $/BTC), then it would be ~940 BTC.
On their 2014 yearly report they declared to have 340'000 $ worth of bitcoin on Dec 31, 2014, "recorded at the lower of cost or market based on an average unit cost".
For comparison, at the end of last year they also held ~10'000'000 $ worth of precious metals (!) and ~180'000'000 $ in "cash". I.e. their bitcoin holdings were about 0.2% of their "money" holdings.
May 03, 2015, 10:07:02 PM
money which the bitcoin holders have put into the system, and expect to get back from it ---
I've put dollars into bitcoin but I don't expect to get back dollars. I expect to get back goods and services.You've been on here how long Jorge? And you still don't get it?
Miners don't sell all 3600 coins. I don't sell the coins I mine (never have), along with many many many other miners.
May 03, 2015, 10:00:15 PM
money which the bitcoin holders have put into the system, and expect to get back from it ---
I've put dollars into bitcoin but I don't expect to get back dollars. I expect to get back goods and services.
May 03, 2015, 10:00:14 PM
Bids slowly building on Finex...
May 03, 2015, 09:57:59 PM
May 03, 2015, 09:47:45 PM
I'm reading a bit of this Tim Swanson report Strider linked to and his analytical skills leaves a bit to be desired. I am not in any way suggesting that Brian Armstrongs assertion is unassailable, but Mr. Swansons attack on it is not worth much.
"Two months ago Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase, said:
Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains.
This is empirically untrue. If Bitcoin was “too far ahead,” then axiomatically no one would be working on all these other projects as they would clearly see this trend and focus on one platform. "
Edit: OK, I guess the answer to this:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
"Two months ago Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase, said:
Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains.
This is empirically untrue. If Bitcoin was “too far ahead,” then axiomatically no one would be working on all these other projects as they would clearly see this trend and focus on one platform. "
Edit: OK, I guess the answer to this:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
I haven't read too closely (not closely at all, which is why I asked for a quote) but the kinds of networks where the blockchain and the token is separable it seems that no value is transferred. It will function purely as a ledger and the value will have to be transferred otherwise. If true, that seems quite limiting.
re: Tim Swanson's paper. A permissioned ledger is a completely separate thing from the Bitcoin protocol. There really should not be a direct comparison because the critical aspects of Bitcoin aren't present in a permissioned ledger. They aren't decentralised and they are not 'trustless'.
In conversation with Tim I've been privy to, he has two main things to say: one, that big banks don't want bitcoin because they need to trust an unknown third party (miners) and two, that this is a business game to make money not be idealistic. He believes bitcoiners are all misguided anarchists and libertarians and that only profit focused people who play nice with the TBTF's see the potential.
I get the feeling he underestimates the value of what Bitcoin is though. Yes, technologies like hyperledger might lead to a more efficient digital layer within a states banking system, but when you want to move money between jurisdictions and currencies much of the same old system applies.
With Bitcoin, any individual anywhere in the world can secure value digitally and send it to wherever s/he wants instantly, because it has value just about anywhere. That takes time to build, and as we all know, it's a bumpy ride. And it's a quality I don't see in any of the permissioned tokenless ledgers. With those you have to have a separate clearing mechanism, so basically most of the costs are still in place.
You might get it to some extent with permissioned ledgers with tokens. But if it's going to be as cost-efficient as Bitcoin they will have to go through the bumpy ride of price discovery, and I just don't see how that's going to be done. Nor do I see why it should be done. It can't be closed loop, so it will run into much of the same problems as Bitcoin, except now you have someone to sue. And how is that going to help?
May 03, 2015, 08:58:35 PM
May 03, 2015, 08:25:56 PM
Guys we need to entice our whale leaders.
P.S. this rocket is on a one way flight to the moon.*
*Crash landing probable
P.S. this rocket is on a one way flight to the moon.*
*Crash landing probable
May 03, 2015, 08:12:11 PM
May 03, 2015, 07:58:02 PM
May 03, 2015, 07:43:32 PM
Tim Swanson thinks transactions cost 25 BTC divided by the number of transactions in a block. That's a complete misunderstanding of not just what the block reward does but of what Bitcoin even is. He has gathered some interesting data, but his analysis is unlikely to be of much use as he has no fundamental understanding of Bitcoin in the first place.
Tim Swanson (who understands bitcoin's economy much better than most bitcoin gurus) is looking at the miners as an entity that performs a service to the "bitcoin system" (validating and securing transactions) in return for a payment (the block rewards and transaction fees).
That's where you and Tim are mistaken prof. You are completely ignoring the main function of the block reward, which is to distribute the tokens.
May 03, 2015, 07:33:12 PM
As if businesses/merchants are running such razor thin margins that the <0.0001% of revenue they get from 100% BTC/fiat insta-conversion would bankrupt them if they instead held BTC for even the slightest bit of supply-choked upwards price movement.
I don't understand your statement here.. are you for or against overstock holding BTC? Because I don't see how instant conversion to fiat would have any negative consequences. Also, Overstock probably does have razor-thin margins. 
Amazon's current net profit margin is negative -0.22%, overstocks is positive 0.50-0.60%, but that is okay when you're making over 2 billion a quarter and attemping to grow. Overstock also has good returns on assets and equity (8% range) that helps its revenue streams.
Also If I remember Overstock's most recent shareholders reports correctly, they are actually hold quite a decent amount of bitcoin.
Edit: Overstock.com holds $233,000 worth of bitcoin as of March 31, 2015 Link - Current report
May 03, 2015, 07:28:23 PM
I'm reading a bit of this Tim Swanson report Strider linked to and his analytical skills leaves a bit to be desired. I am not in any way suggesting that Brian Armstrongs assertion is unassailable, but Mr. Swansons attack on it is not worth much.
"Two months ago Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase, said:
Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains.
This is empirically untrue. If Bitcoin was “too far ahead,” then axiomatically no one would be working on all these other projects as they would clearly see this trend and focus on one platform. "
Edit: OK, I guess the answer to this:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
re: Tim Swanson's paper. A permissioned ledger is a completely separate thing from the Bitcoin protocol. There really should not be a direct comparison because the critical aspects of Bitcoin aren't present in a permissioned ledger. They aren't decentralised and they are not 'trustless'.
In conversation with Tim I've been privy to, he has two main things to say: one, that big banks don't want bitcoin because they need to trust an unknown third party (miners) and two, that this is a business game to make money not be idealistic. He believes bitcoiners are all misguided anarchists and libertarians and that only profit focused people who play nice with the TBTF's see the potential.
"Two months ago Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase, said:
Ripple, Stellar, and Altcoins are all a distraction. Bitcoin is way too far ahead. We should be focused on bitcoin and sidechains.
This is empirically untrue. If Bitcoin was “too far ahead,” then axiomatically no one would be working on all these other projects as they would clearly see this trend and focus on one platform. "
Edit: OK, I guess the answer to this:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
I haven't read too closely (not closely at all, which is why I asked for a quote) but the kinds of networks where the blockchain and the token is separable it seems that no value is transferred. It will function purely as a ledger and the value will have to be transferred otherwise. If true, that seems quite limiting.
re: Tim Swanson's paper. A permissioned ledger is a completely separate thing from the Bitcoin protocol. There really should not be a direct comparison because the critical aspects of Bitcoin aren't present in a permissioned ledger. They aren't decentralised and they are not 'trustless'.
In conversation with Tim I've been privy to, he has two main things to say: one, that big banks don't want bitcoin because they need to trust an unknown third party (miners) and two, that this is a business game to make money not be idealistic. He believes bitcoiners are all misguided anarchists and libertarians and that only profit focused people who play nice with the TBTF's see the potential.
May 03, 2015, 07:15:10 PM
As if businesses/merchants are running such razor thin margins that the <0.0001% of revenue they get from 100% BTC/fiat insta-conversion would bankrupt them if they instead held BTC for even the slightest bit of supply-choked upwards price movement.
I don't understand your statement here.. are you for or against overstock holding BTC? Because I don't see how instant conversion to fiat would have any negative consequences. Also, Overstock probably does have razor-thin margins. May 03, 2015, 06:58:01 PM
May 03, 2015, 06:53:18 PM
Something about needing $200+ dollars to coax a worthless internet token from a seller's hands seems to refute newb's wise words.
Have 2/10 troll points for trying tho
Oh, and please short with leverage to reap those mad gains from the inevitable collapse.
Have 2/10 troll points for trying tho
Oh, and please short with leverage to reap those mad gains from the inevitable collapse.
May 03, 2015, 06:51:31 PM
As if businesses/merchants are running such razor thin margins that the <0.0001% of revenue they get from 100% BTC/fiat insta-conversion would bankrupt them if they instead held BTC for even the slightest bit of supply-choked upwards price movement.
May 03, 2015, 06:29:53 PM
Let me get this straight, no one wants your over 80% dropped & dropping shitcoin, any Business or Merchants dare to keep it will go bankrupt and out of business.
Overstock decided not to keep any bitcoins any more, 100% fiat from bitpay, which is a smart thing to do after learned the hard lesson from their CEO's stupid mistake .
Overstock decided not to keep any bitcoins any more, 100% fiat from bitpay, which is a smart thing to do after learned the hard lesson from their CEO's stupid mistake .
May 03, 2015, 06:21:24 PM
Hey all. The Crave network is launching soon... (decentralized darkmarkets) and we are integrating BTC!
Take A peek:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/crave/
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-crave-1st-pos-masternodes-dark-assets-i2p-market-embrace-the-dark-997356
Take A peek:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/crave/
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-crave-1st-pos-masternodes-dark-assets-i2p-market-embrace-the-dark-997356
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