Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 24457.

MrPiggles

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Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 08:57:34 AM

The raid found ~30'000 BTC in the server and ~150'000 BTC in Ross's laptop. Those were presumably the proceeds of fees from hosting businessess on SilkRoad. Those 180'000 BTC were kept away from the market; and part of them, at least, must have been bought by SR customers on the open market. So Ross was obviously accumulating. I would even guess that he had been holding almost all the bitcoins that he got.

You are the dumbest fuckin troll because you hide behind your dumbass credentials which some people take you seriously for.

If you even read the FBI indictment you'll see how many coins in total he dealt with and realise how far off the mark your stupid ass is

octaft

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Quote from: dreamspark on November 19, 2014, 11:32:10 AM

I just think its really quite funny to sit here talking about a $6 mill paper loss when even if half his prediction comes true we're talking about making $120 mill +.

I doubt he believes his own prediction, but if he can get enough other people to believe it, he can sell to them at a higher price later, which let's face it is very likely all the guy cares about.

NotLambchop

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Quote from: dreamspark on November 19, 2014, 11:32:10 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 08:57:34 AM

Well, one of those 101 is to transfer them to a new owner; another is to deposit them on an exchange...

And then why publicly say you still have them and are planning on bidding on the new lots...?
...

For the same reason my cat is all "I meant to do that" after blowing a jump--because embarrassed.

jonoiv

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Quote from: Tzupy on November 19, 2014, 11:35:04 AM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 19, 2014, 11:28:37 AM

Quote from: dreamspark on November 19, 2014, 11:23:01 AM

...
Exactly, this decision to sell the coins is solely from the US government not Ross.

It was a joint decision made in January. Both the US government and Ross agreed that Bitcoin was going to tank.
...and were right.

Yes, they both agreed in January 2014, the question was if DPR had to agree to the sale now, as I thought was sensible, but I stand corrected.

"The United States and Ulbricht agree that the United States may, in its sole discretion, sell any portion or all of the Computer Hardware Bitcoins,
on a date or dates and in a manner to be determined by the Government."

So the gov believed the price will tank in June and they were right (Draper got bull trapped), the gov (not DPR) believes again the price will tank, guess what...

It's not

NotLambchop

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Quote from: Tzupy on November 19, 2014, 11:35:04 AM

...
So the gov believed the price will tank in January and they were right (Draper got bull trapped), the gov ~~(not DPR)~~ believes ~~again~~ the price will continue to tank, guess what...

FTFY

Tzupy

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Quote from: NotLambchop on November 19, 2014, 11:28:37 AM

Quote from: dreamspark on November 19, 2014, 11:23:01 AM

...
Exactly, this decision to sell the coins is solely from the US government not Ross.

It was a joint decision made in January. Both the US government and Ross agreed that Bitcoin was going to tank.
...and were right.

Yes, they both agreed in January 2014, the question was if DPR had to agree to the sale now, as I thought was sensible, but I stand corrected.

"The United States and Ulbricht agree that the United States may, in its sole discretion, sell any portion or all of the Computer Hardware Bitcoins,
on a date or dates and in a manner to be determined by the Government."

So the gov believed the price will tank in June and they were right (Draper got bull trapped), the gov (not DPR) believes again the price will tank, guess what...

dreamspark

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 08:57:34 AM

Well, one of those 101 is to transfer them to a new owner; another is to deposit them on an exchange...

And then why publicly say you still have them and are planning on bidding on the new lots...?

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 08:57:34 AM

Most people who enter a commodity auction do not want to get the item at any cost, they want to make a good deal; which almost always means buying it below market price.

For the reason already stated, I strongly suspect that all the bets in the previous auction, including Draper's, were below the market price at the time (600$/BTC). I expect that the same will happen in this auction.

See the posts from oda above about why, with proper reasoning applied, the coins probably didnt go for much below market if at all.

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 08:57:34 AM

Billionaires do not become so by not minding the loss of 6 millions.

Any one who owns a few thousand BTC will say that it will surely go to the moon one day.

But they do become so by being able to withstand a paper loss and not panic and sell for a loss when if they would have held for longer they would have made $$$.

I just think its really quite funny to sit here talking about a $6 mill paper loss when even if half his prediction comes true we're talking about making $120 mill +. Im sure he can hold for a couple of years without worrying too much with returns like that. Some of these conversations will be gold in the future whether it goes to the moon or to 0.

hdbuck

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bitcoin properly: http://bitcoinproperly.org/#sthash.pZIijDTZ.sKK8T1zb.dpbs

nice

NotLambchop

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Quote from: dreamspark on November 19, 2014, 11:23:01 AM

...
Exactly, this decision to sell the coins is solely from the US government not Ross.

It was a joint decision made in January. Both the US government and Ross agreed that Bitcoin was going to tank.
...and were right.

dreamspark

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Quote from: bobabouey2 on November 19, 2014, 11:06:13 AM

Quote from: Miz4r on November 19, 2014, 10:58:36 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 10:28:09 AM

Quote from: Miz4r on November 19, 2014, 09:50:42 AM

You really think the FBI talked to DPR and discussed with him whether now would be a good time to sell? They sell now because they can, the FBI are no speculators and they certainly didn't ask for DPR's permission first.

Actually they did talk with Ross (not clear on whose initiative) and both agreeed to sell. The FBI still cannot sell those coins on their own, it is not yet decided whether they belong to Ross or to SilkRoad. If they belong to Ross, they would have to wait for the verdict on Ross's trial.

I stand corrected then, thanks.

Still the point stands that Ross and the FBI aren't speculators, Ross probably agreed with it because even at the price today they are worth a hell of a lot more than when he got them so why not auction them off? It's unlikely Ross will be planning to get back into the SR business and BTC if he is declared innocent, he will probably be happy with just the cash without worrying about the volatility of Bitcoin.

They agreed back on January 27, 2014 to sell based on volatility risk. "WHEREAS, the government and Ulbricht agree that, due to the volatile market for bitcoins, the Computer Hardware Bitcoins risk losing value during the pendency of the forfeiture proceedings;" http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/dpr-bitcoins/order.pdf

Having agreed to permit government to sell back in January, the government no longer needs any further agreement from Ross to sell. Same link: "1. The United States and Ulbricht agree that the United States may, at its sole discretion, sell any portion or all of the Computer Hardware Bitcoin, on a date or dates and in a manner to be determined by the Government."

Exactly, this decision to sell the coins is solely from the US government not Ross.

bobabouey2

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Quote from: Miz4r on November 19, 2014, 10:58:36 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 10:28:09 AM

Quote from: Miz4r on November 19, 2014, 09:50:42 AM

You really think the FBI talked to DPR and discussed with him whether now would be a good time to sell? They sell now because they can, the FBI are no speculators and they certainly didn't ask for DPR's permission first.

Actually they did talk with Ross (not clear on whose initiative) and both agreeed to sell. The FBI still cannot sell those coins on their own, it is not yet decided whether they belong to Ross or to SilkRoad. If they belong to Ross, they would have to wait for the verdict on Ross's trial.

I stand corrected then, thanks.

Still the point stands that Ross and the FBI aren't speculators, Ross probably agreed with it because even at the price today they are worth a hell of a lot more than when he got them so why not auction them off? It's unlikely Ross will be planning to get back into the SR business and BTC if he is declared innocent, he will probably be happy with just the cash without worrying about the volatility of Bitcoin.

They agreed back on January 27, 2014 to sell based on volatility risk. "WHEREAS, the government and Ulbricht agree that, due to the volatile market for bitcoins, the Computer Hardware Bitcoins risk losing value during the pendency of the forfeiture proceedings;" http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/dpr-bitcoins/order.pdf

Having agreed to permit government to sell back in January, the government no longer needs any further agreement from Ross to sell. Same link: "1. The United States and Ulbricht agree that the United States may, at its sole discretion, sell any portion or all of the Computer Hardware Bitcoin, on a date or dates and in a manner to be determined by the Government."

NotLambchop

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Quote from: justusranvier on November 19, 2014, 10:42:05 AM

Quote

And that, kids, is why US prisons are so disproportionately blacks/minorities. Because wealthy Roll Eyes

And here I though you understood reading comprehension, since you just brought it up a minute ago.

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

Miz4r

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 10:28:09 AM

Quote from: Miz4r on November 19, 2014, 09:50:42 AM

You really think the FBI talked to DPR and discussed with him whether now would be a good time to sell? They sell now because they can, the FBI are no speculators and they certainly didn't ask for DPR's permission first.

Actually they did talk with Ross (not clear on whose initiative) and both agreeed to sell. The FBI still cannot sell those coins on their own, it is not yet decided whether they belong to Ross or to SilkRoad. If they belong to Ross, they would have to wait for the verdict on Ross's trial.

I stand corrected then, thanks.

Still the point stands that Ross and the FBI aren't speculators, Ross probably agreed with it because even at the price today they are worth a hell of a lot more than when he got them so why not auction them off? It's unlikely Ross will be planning to get back into the SR business and BTC if he is declared innocent, he will probably be happy with just the cash without worrying about the volatility of Bitcoin.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: justusranvier on November 19, 2014, 10:42:05 AM

Quote

And that, kids, is why US prisons are so disproportionately blacks/minorities. Because wealthy Roll Eyes

And here I though you understood reading comprehension, since you just brought it up a minute ago.

In fact, I doubt Ross will do any time. White people with money rarely get convicted after asset forfeiture. That's partly why so many prisons are fill with poor black folks. Sad

NotLambchop

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Quote from: redsn0w on November 19, 2014, 10:38:01 AM

What ?
...

Mr. justusranvier feels that US judicial system is primarily motivated by asset forfeiture, which clearly explains why US jails are disproportionately black. Because black people are disproportionately rich, thus worth convicting Cool

Tzupy

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 19, 2014, 10:28:09 AM

Quote from: Miz4r on November 19, 2014, 09:50:42 AM

You really think the FBI talked to DPR and discussed with him whether now would be a good time to sell? They sell now because they can, the FBI are no speculators and they certainly didn't ask for DPR's permission first.

Actually they did talk with Ross (not clear on whose initiative) and both agreed to sell. The FBI still cannot sell those coins on their own, it is not yet decided whether they belong to Ross or to SilkRoad. If they belong to Ross, they would have to wait for the verdict on Ross's trial.

Exactly, but probably Miz4r didn't bother to read the document.

As for the silly "as low of a price as possible", of course it doesn't make sense, DPR wants the best possible price (short term).
Probably after looking at the market he decided to average his cash out. If the market will recover soon, he will refrain from selling the other 100k, if not... Wink

.

justusranvier

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Quote

And that, kids, is why US prisons are so disproportionately blacks/minorities. Because wealthy Roll Eyes

And here I though you understood reading comprehension, since you just brought it up a minute ago.

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: janos666 on November 19, 2014, 10:26:14 AM

I never understood how these US Marsals can auction these coins before at least one court officially finds him guilty. Is it normal in the US to sell these kind of assets before the end of the trial?

The first lot was found on the SilkRoad server, so it could be auctioned right away. Ross claims that the coins in his laptop are his personal property that he got from other legal activities; so that lot has to wait a court decision. (Even if those coins did not come from SilkRoad, if he is found guilty of operating it he may have to turn them in as fines.)

jonoiv

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Omikifuse on November 19, 2014, 09:41:38 AM

No big moves during the night.

So boring.

Was expecting something

hopefully it will get moving in the next few mins.

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