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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 24981. (Read 26711016 times)

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Yeah real estate is a really safe investment. No bubbles or wild speculating going on in any real estate market ever. I'm going to buy a house right now. How about this one. The razor wire in the back garden is cute.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48145727.html








But, but that's more than a "castle" with a used Beemer outside.

Don't these people understand status?
sr. member
Activity: 378
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the wealth of the 1% richest people is >110 trillion $. (btw this is much more then the poorest half of all people on this planet have)

so if 1% of the richest put 1% of their wealth in bitcoin we would have a market cap of >1,1 trillion $ just by being a store of value.

If just half of the people on Earth send you a penny, you'd be a multimillionaire.  What's your point?
legendary
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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
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the wealth of the 1% richest people is >110 trillion $. (btw this is much more then the poorest half of all people on this planet have)

so if 1% of the richest put 1% of their wealth in bitcoin we would have a market cap of >1,1 trillion $ just by being a store of value.

sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
...
assuming you invest in a currency of country which has a limited supply of money and you can be pretty sure that it will never be changed.

assume further that this country has the possibility to fill some niches in the global economy

you think it is insane to invest in the currency of this country?

If the currency is inflating @ 10% a year, and its dollar exchange rate has fallen by more than 50% in 2014?  Let's just say "not very smart."

the dollar exchange rate has increased by around 150 times in the last one and a half years - very smart investment Cheesy

induction as an indicator over time is stupid.

you can argue that my assumptions are wrong or that the niche is very small but arguing over charts is beyond stupid

if these assumptions are true and the niche is big enough you can say that investing in this "currency" is sane.

Bitcoin's exchange rate has gone up infinitely over the past five years.  There once was a time when it was worth exactly nothing.  Extrapolating from that, your future profits should also be infinite.

If you wish to get back to reality, you may consider Bitcoin's performance in recent past.  Since December of 2013, the price has been steadily declining.

If your reasoning proves anything, it proves entirely too much.  It proves that any investment which did well in some distant past is bound to be profitable in the future.  Regardless of its recent performance.

I hope I do not need to dwell on the folly of such assumptions.

Re. "induction as an indicator over time": wat?

what I said is that you cannot take the price as an indicator of the quality of an investment - you cannot build a theory from observation if the observation is constantly changing (as the price or the chart of bitcoin).

So much for watching walls and all the TA silliness...  Sadder still, so much for the notions of price reflecting the market sentiment.

Quote
what you can do instead is build a set of assumptions and say if they are valid or not valid.

If price does not reflect worth now, assuming that it will in the future requires an irrational leap of faith.  If you like that logic stuff.

Quote
to be fair you need a point of reference - according to this http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1sowur/how_is_a_2600000000000_market_cap_for_btc_possible/

the market cap of gold is 8 trillion, the one of us bonds is 35 trillion - bitcoin at this point of time is 5 billion [I think most people do not realise how small this on a global scale].

so golds market cap is more than 1000 times higher than the one of bitcoin - I assume that bitcoin never catches up, but to assume that there is place to grow is definetely not insane.

at this point we do not know how big the niche of bitcoin in the financial will be and let us not end arguing about pascals wagers, but that the niche is potentially existent is reasonable.

But Pascal's wager is exactly the fallacy you're leaning on.  You are ignoring all recent price data (showing that demand for Bitcoin is declining) in favor of extrapolating from the potential upside.
By that logic, I should invest in any d00d who tells me he'll conquer the world.  The upside is limitless, the downside finite.

Here's the problem with your reasoning:  The likelihood of Bitcoin becoming world's major currency is slim enough to make me (and my Lizard Overlords) laugh.  If it does become a threat to the status quo, it will be banned--already talk in Russia of criminalizing it.  It won't vanish, but it certainly won't thrive.



sr. member
Activity: 378
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Edit:  When you consider the likely response of governments, which we all know are on the central bankers' leash, the "investment" starts looking even less sane.


If Governments had outright banned it we would probably be worth more than we are today. Instead people are waiting to hear.

w/e..distribution takes time. If you have no ability to envision the future, the future where bitcoin plays an integrall part..then maybe you should be spending this portion of your life elsewhere?

Your conviction in Bitcoin's worth increasing after being banned by governments... makes me a bit weary of taking you seriously.
hero member
Activity: 728
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newbie
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Edit:  When you consider the likely response of governments, which we all know are on the central bankers' leash, the "investment" starts looking even less sane.

http://s3.postimg.org/8xttwog4z/DSC_4040.gif
If Governments had outright banned it we would probably be worth more than we are today. Instead people are waiting to hear.

w/e..distribution takes time. If you have no ability to envision the future, the future where bitcoin plays an integrall part..then maybe you should be spending this portion of your life elsewhere?


BITCOIN QT IS A COMPUTER VIRUS GET OVER IT !!!!  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
...
assuming you invest in a currency of country which has a limited supply of money and you can be pretty sure that it will never be changed.

assume further that this country has the possibility to fill some niches in the global economy

you think it is insane to invest in the currency of this country?

If the currency is inflating @ 10% a year, and its dollar exchange rate has fallen by more than 50% in 2014?  Let's just say "not very smart."

the dollar exchange rate has increased by around 150 times in the last one and a half years - very smart investment Cheesy

induction as an indicator over time is stupid.

you can argue that my assumptions are wrong or that the niche is very small but arguing over charts is beyond stupid

if these assumptions are true and the niche is big enough you can say that investing in this "currency" is sane.

Bitcoin's exchange rate has gone up infinitely over the past five years.  There once was a time when it was worth exactly nothing.  Extrapolating from that, your future profits should also be infinite.

If you wish to get back to reality, you may consider Bitcoin's performance in recent past.  Since December of 2013, the price has been steadily declining.

If your reasoning proves anything, it proves entirely too much.  It proves that any investment which did well in some distant past is bound to be profitable in the future.  Regardless of its recent performance.

I hope I do not need to dwell on the folly of such assumptions.

Re. "induction as an indicator over time": wat?

what I said is that you cannot take the price as an indicator of the quality of an investment - you cannot build a theory from observation if the observation is constantly changing (as the price or the chart of bitcoin).

what you can do instead is build a set of assumptions and say if they are valid or not valid.

to be fair you need a point of reference - according to this http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1sowur/how_is_a_2600000000000_market_cap_for_btc_possible/

the market cap of gold is 8 trillion, the one of us bonds is 35 trillion - bitcoin at this point of time is 5 billion [I think most people do not realise how small this on a global scale].

so golds market cap is more than 1000 times higher than the one of bitcoin - I assume that bitcoin never catches up, but to assume that there is place to grow is definetely not insane.

at this point we do not know how big the niche of bitcoin in the financial will be and let us not end arguing about pascals wagers, but that the niche is potentially existent is reasonable.

FNG
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500

Edit:  When you consider the likely response of governments, which we all know are on the central bankers' leash, the "investment" starts looking even less sane.


If Governments had outright banned it we would probably be worth more than we are today. Instead people are waiting to hear.

w/e..distribution takes time. If you have no ability to envision the future, the future where bitcoin plays an integrall part..then maybe you should be spending this portion of your life elsewhere?
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
...
edit: anyone want to buy some amazing land for bitcoins?

Post or PM specifics.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
...
assuming you invest in a currency of country which has a limited supply of money and you can be pretty sure that it will never be changed.

assume further that this country has the possibility to fill some niches in the global economy

you think it is insane to invest in the currency of this country?

If the currency is inflating @ 10% a year, and its dollar exchange rate has fallen by more than 50% in 2014?  Let's just say "not very smart."

the dollar exchange rate has increased by around 150 times in the last one and a half years - very smart investment Cheesy

induction as an indicator over time is stupid.

you can argue that my assumptions are wrong or that the niche is very small but arguing over charts is beyond stupid

if these assumptions are true and the niche is big enough you can say that investing in this "currency" is sane.

Bitcoin's exchange rate has gone up infinitely over the past five years.  There once was a time when it was worth exactly nothing.  Extrapolating from that, your future profits should also be infinite.

If you wish to get back to reality, you may consider Bitcoin's performance in the more recent past.  Since December of 2013, the price has been steadily declining.

If your reasoning proves anything, it proves entirely too much.  It proves that any investment which did well in some distant past is bound to be profitable in the future.  Regardless of its recent performance.

I hope I do not need to dwell on the folly of such assumptions.

Re. "induction as an indicator over time": wat?

Edit:  When you consider the likely response of governments, which we all know are on the central bankers' leash, the "investment" starts looking even less sane.

legendary
Activity: 4242
Merit: 5039
You're never too old to think young.
Yeah real estate is a really safe investment. No bubbles or wild speculating going on in any real estate market ever. I'm going to buy a house right now. How about this one. The razor wire in the back garden is cute.

LOL Over a million bucks for that dump?

Being a millionaire aint what it used to be.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
ask yourself if it is the house that is worth more or the fiat that is worth less.
hero member
Activity: 531
Merit: 501
People who try to sell bitcoin as a way to protect one's investment from inflation should be jailed, IMHO.
Surely everybody who has a different economic opinion than yours deserves to rot in jail.....

No, just those who try to swindle others by selling them shares of dry oil wells, water-powered cars, ponzi schemes, etc..

No sane person would invest in cash, unless the money came from some illegal activity, or one is trying to evade taxes.

Real estate, and stocks of large, established and diversified companies are usually a safe investment.  Even if they are overpriced at some point, and may crash eventually, there is a limit to how much they can go down before hitting their fair price.  Since they are material property, their real value will not be affected by inflation.  For those who are too lazy or small to use those investments, there are many bonds and investment funds that are somewhat riskier and offer smaller returns, but will still protect from inflation.

I don't have much to say about gold, except that it seems to be vastly overpriced, and its price charts are not nice at all.

No one can honestly predict the future of bitcoin.  It may rise again to thousands of dollars, or it may be superseded by something else and go down to zero.   It is a big gamble, a lottery ticket with unknown odds.  People should be free to gamble, but must know that it is gambling and not investment.



Yeah real estate is a really safe investment. No bubbles or wild speculating going on in any real estate market ever. I'm going to buy a house right now. How about this one. The razor wire in the back garden is cute.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48145727.html

legendary
Activity: 4242
Merit: 5039
You're never too old to think young.

LOL  This just reinforces my decision not to use or own credit cards.

I'll never understand why people put up with the inconvenience, hassle, expense and security risk of credit cards.

Cash is so much easier, safer and faster. I've never had cash refused, frozen, put on hold or charged a fee.

Bitcoin however has the potential of being even better than cash.
bitcoin is already better than cash Smiley

The only way cash is better than Bitcoin is that it is accepted in more places. Time is on our side.
hero member
Activity: 669
Merit: 500
People who try to sell bitcoin as a way to protect one's investment from inflation should be jailed, IMHO.
Surely everybody who has a different economic opinion than yours deserves to rot in jail.....

No, just those who try to swindle others by selling them shares of dry oil wells, water-powered cars, ponzi schemes, etc..

And people who recommend bitcoin fall into that category?


Real estate, and stocks of large, established and diversified companies are usually a safe investment.  Even if they are overpriced at some point, and may crash eventually, there is a limit to how much they can go down before hitting their fair price.  Since they are material property, their real value will not be affected by inflation.  For those who are too lazy or small to use those investments, there are many bonds and investment funds that are somewhat riskier and offer smaller returns, but will still protect from inflation.
There is no limit to how low established companies can go in price (unless you count 0 as the hard limit  Smiley )
Stocks are not material property.
Real estate will indeed never be worthless, but in certain political environments it might be confiscated, so it's not a zero risk investment either, you could lose all.

No one can honestly predict the future of bitcoin.  It may rise again to thousands of dollars, or it may be superseded by something else and go down to zero.   It is a big gamble, a lottery ticket with unknown odds.  People should be free to gamble, but must know that it is gambling and not investment.
Investment implies risk.  

I own land where the yearly school, garbage, road, water fees total up to more than the property is worth. Wasn't the case 20 years ago when i bought them.

edit: anyone want to buy some amazing land for bitcoins?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250

LOL  This just reinforces my decision not to use or own credit cards.

I'll never understand why people put up with the inconvenience, hassle, expense and security risk of credit cards.

Cash is so much easier, safer and faster. I've never had cash refused, frozen, put on hold or charged a fee.

Bitcoin however has the potential of being even better than cash.
bitcoin is already better than cash Smiley
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