Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 25456.

nioc

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1008

Quote from: mooncake on September 29, 2014, 07:12:31 AM

09/29/2014
Circle Opens Doors to Global Audience
By Jeremy Allaire
After months of working with customers in an invite-only phase, today we at Circle opened our initial service to the world.

When we set out to build Circle, we imagined a new kind of Internet-centric consumer financial service, one that the average person would find enjoyable and powerful, built on the promises of Bitcoin – instant, global, secure, free transactions.

For our initial product launch, our aims were simple:

Create an experience that is fast, beautiful, and enjoyable to use. Online banking applications stink. We wanted an elegant design aesthetic that would appeal to digital natives.
Reduce the friction that so many people – even sophisticated, technology-savvy people – often experience in acquiring and spending Bitcoin. Starting today, people can onboard into a Circle account and begin using digital money within minutes, not days. And Circle eliminates the labyrinth of fees and complex user interfaces designed for traders.
Make digital money the same as other major Internet services for consumers: instant and free. We wanted our service to be instant for onboarding, instant for depositing and converting money, and nearly instant for sending and receiving payments – anywhere on the planet.
Global Support

In addition to the core features and goals above, Circle is now available in seven languages, which collectively cover approximately 40% of the world’s population. Circle’s site, product, and customer support content are all available in English, Chinese, Japanese, Portuguese (Brazilian), Spanish (Latin American), German, and French – and we will add more languages as we grow. It’s a good start, but we plan to add far more capabilities for international customers over time.

Insurance Clarity

Back in May, we were excited to announce that we were offering customers insurance from theft on 100 percent of their bitcoin account balances. Since May, we’ve continued to build out our insurance program, acquiring more underwriters for both our online and cold storage / offline assets. Today we offer this unprecedented insurance coverage to every Circle customer. Circle customers will have 100 percent coverage of their full deposit value. Our insurance broker is Marsh, one of the largest insurance brokers in the world. The underwriters for this insurance are all highly-rated. Insurance on Bitcoin is a new market, and we’re proud to be a market maker in establishing this valuable service to users of digital assets. And this 100 percent insurance covers deposits for any user in the world holding bitcoin with Circle.

Native Apps Imminent

In addition to the general availability of Circle, today at the Sibos international banking conference, we had an opportunity to sneak peak our new iOS and Android native apps. While these are still in beta and not part of today’s product release, they’re a critical piece of the puzzle and companions to Circle’s Web-based service. We’ve been hard at work on these apps and hope to make them available to everyone soon.

Thank You!

Over the past months, it has been exciting to see the Circle team grow and to see our product, operations, support, legal and compliance, security, and finance teams execute on launching our service. Importantly, though, we are just getting started. What we’ve delivered today is the beginning of an arc of innovation that we hope to keep delivering in the years to come.

We’re excited to invite you to become a customer, and we look forward to your feedback, questions, and comments. We have a lot to build and learn, and we’re excited to iterate in the market together.

Thanks and enjoy Circle!

- The Circle Team

https://www.circle.com/en/2014/09/29/circle-opens-doors-global-audience

One thing the circle team forgot to mention. New York is not part of the world so to those of you who are there can go fuck yourself.

Post-Cosmic

full member

Activity: 175

Merit: 100

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 30, 2014, 10:18:33 PM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 10:11:15 PM

Quote from: Brewins on September 30, 2014, 08:43:58 PM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 08:23:43 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 30, 2014, 12:05:22 PM

Quote from: byronbb on September 30, 2014, 12:03:26 PM

Quote from: inca on September 30, 2014, 11:58:54 AM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 11:56:44 AM

Can you imagine how dire it is if the previous years' bubbles were mostly just caused & accentuated by Willy & Markus bots.

It would mean the 2012 price of $13, the early 2013 price of ~$58 - That's what the real, uninflated, current fair market price of BTC would be at today.

With the way PayPal news' rise was crushed like an insect, because of zero demand, it's hard to not give some weight to that theory^ - Prices have behaved as if drawn down to a plausibly true fair market value in the $70-130 range, just like most of last year.

Bubble patterns happen.

Then they break. A different pattern emerges.

Your dreams, your hopes, your delusions, have killed your profitability, for 9 months now.

Just like they crippled me, until I woke up, in May.

Are you serious?

The argument that bitcoin is grossly overvalued is not outrageous.

nether is the argument that bitcoin is grossly undervalued.

Very true, Adam, absolutely. However, it is quite obvious to me the argument for BTC to be undervalued is significantly more outrageous than it is for it to be overvalued.

[..]

Because money is nominal, not exponential.

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

Yep.

Since it's that simple, you'd think us cryptosphere enthusiasts would've figured this out by now, hory shet, right..!??!

Had to make a big wall because people do forget that it WILL take those things to make another bubble, and because those things aren't a certainty, why would 'the mythical bubble' be..? Just because rpietila wants another pink luxury car to go w/ his pink panther tuxedo..? Just because Loaded is getting bored, and Peter R. thinks the pattern must repeat itself?

I hate to be too verbose. It's nice to have time to read & dwell on information, I'm an intellectual after all, but ffs, life is busy, people have other things to do than read 4309625 pages of 342095749573 words each ruminating verbiage over & over. So I'm definitely cognizant of how wasteful it can be to wall it up.

But to be fair, I'm usually a lot more terse than e.g. our dear friend, JJG. So, this was something that needed to be explained comprehensively. I'd been holding back on some of this stuff for almost a year =/

when i wish on a shooting star i wish for less ways to wish for an more ways to work toward it.

Awesome, precisely what I was getting at - I'm far from another 'Cut your loose' fanatic like 'falllling' just hoping for a $0-Crash - I just want people to stop deluding themselves in a blind religious haze while going to BitCoin Church with BitChick, and like you said Adam - Actually contribute towards putting into place, or at least understand, the groundwork that's obviously required before another gravity-defying bubble.

Regarding your argument BitChick, the thing is with every passing previous bubble and subsequent cooling phase, it's ironically also gotten exponentially more difficult for the cynics to be proven wrong yet again by a follow-through epic bull-run.

One thing I forgot to mention though is, the legacy Gox's bots left us with is one of 'Fake it 'till you make it' such that with last year's exploding limelight came hundreds of millions $$ poured into all facets of crypto-infrastructure & the underlying economies so thanks to that, it's very plausible to think the true fair market price of 1 BTC may be more than double 2013's mid-year average in the low $100's.

So in the coming months $245-270 sounds like a good bottom, from $360-410. The infamous +1000% 12-18month figure, from a ~$250 price point, would lead right up to $2500 - Exactly where my 'off-chance moderate bubble' estimate was at ;p

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: ?? on ??

some blindly people are easy to get happy even with another feeble dead cat bounce (bounced to $39x only? come on, remember about those dead cat bounces at $680 $600 $500 $400 ?)

do NOT buy in trap, bitcoin is going to nowhere but down!

Hello, 2011 wants their phrase back. Please come up with something more original than dead cat bounce.

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 11299

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 10:11:15 PM

Quote from: Brewins on September 30, 2014, 08:43:58 PM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 08:23:43 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 30, 2014, 12:05:22 PM

Quote from: byronbb on September 30, 2014, 12:03:26 PM

Quote from: inca on September 30, 2014, 11:58:54 AM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 11:56:44 AM

Can you imagine how dire it is if the previous years' bubbles were mostly just caused & accentuated by Willy & Markus bots.

It would mean the 2012 price of $13, the early 2013 price of ~$58 - That's what the real, uninflated, current fair market price of BTC would be at today.

With the way PayPal news' rise was crushed like an insect, because of zero demand, it's hard to not give some weight to that theory^ - Prices have behaved as if drawn down to a plausibly true fair market value in the $70-130 range, just like most of last year.

Bubble patterns happen.

Then they break. A different pattern emerges.

Your dreams, your hopes, your delusions, have killed your profitability, for 9 months now.

Just like they crippled me, until I woke up, in May.

Are you serious?

The argument that bitcoin is grossly overvalued is not outrageous.

nether is the argument that bitcoin is grossly undervalued.

Very true, Adam, absolutely. However, it is quite obvious to me the argument for BTC to be undervalued is significantly more outrageous than it is for it to be overvalued.

I've always said bitcoin is beautiful, and was needed. Blockchain is an invaluable technology, and it's core currency itself has been tremendously useful in streamlining & simplifying online payments - What would we do without it.

That being said, unfortunately, great value does not automatically equate great price. For price is fundamentally derived entirely from supply & demand, whether or not those last two happen to be affected by market manipulation, good/bad news, external unusual circumstances, asset allocation, or hashing developments/crypto-economics.

And thus, one shouldn't buy BTC because they perceive it as 'more useful' and sell it when seen as 'useless'. I can 'believe in bitcoin' & use it to make money seamlessly, yet still expect further price drops and hold no hope for some grand bubble to rescue bagholders. The market's ebbs & flows from 2009 up to 2013 were quite natural/organic for the most part and justified by the budding crypto-economic ecosystems springing up everywhere. Starting w/ the Goxbots' 2013' antics, however, that statement starts becoming tenuous to make.

Keep in mind though, BTC offers unparalleled opportunities for altcoin pump events, pseudonymous leveraged trading, and gambling - All of which I use to a major extent, so I actually would love nothing more than to be wrong. For yet another 1000% to come save us, right out of Wonderland.

But I can't responsibly have the cognitive dissonance of warping my reasoning to project, place faith in, pray for, more clockwork repeats of the same pattern, yet at far higher nominal price points which make it a lot harder to accomplish, which is why the Willy/Markus bots were even needed in the first place for the last run-up.

That's because the price is denominated in, and raised by, fiat currency. You either have to fractionally fake users' fiat balances on your exchanges, or find more and more money to reach buywalls in order for it to rise. Those dollar bills/euro's/RMB's aren't %-based, and they're not infinite, except to the banks and governments, who generally have no need to bother with cryptocurrency, when they already hold the power of money creation. That means looking at old patterns that happened at price & adoption / manipulation levels orders of magnitude lower than now, and expecting the same % gains in 'the next bubble', is a logical fallacy - money functions according to a linear, geometric basis - it is not exponential, not %-based.. !!!

And that, is why it's so much harder to go from $300-700 to $2500-7500, than it is to reach 10x from $116.

Which forms the basis of my actual expectations for the years to come : Unless the equities (stocks etc) markets experience another shattering collapse (a mere shock, a predictable solid correction to the multi-year bullish US Index & global Stock Indices, is not enough to qualify) ; Unless a major financial, geopolitical (major war), environmental (asteroid collision, zombie/ebola apocalypse) or technical (absolutely fundamental engineering / development changes in bitcoin or crypto) event seriously damages public perception & reliance on fiat currency in a long-lasting meaningful way, forcing huge numbers of non-adopters to not merely be interested / intrigued by crypto, but truly need to make it a permanent, critical part of their daily lives ; There cannot be a big bubble.

A $4k-100k price dream requires something to give in the crypto/fiat status quo. Until such an extreme series of events comes to pass, I foresee many small mini-bubbles, quite like the one from $400's to $600's in Q2 this year. Coupled with the possibility of a larger one, just once, to perhaps $1525-2175. Then the experiment is matured. The rocket has landed.

Because money is nominal, not exponential.

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

Yep.

Since it's that simple, you'd think us cryptosphere enthusiasts would've figured this out by now, hory shet, right..!??!

Had to make a big wall because people do forget that it WILL take those things to make another bubble, and because those things aren't a certainty, why would 'the mythical bubble' be..? Just because rpietila wants another pink luxury car to go w/ his pink panther tuxedo..? Just because Loaded is getting bored, and Peter R. thinks the pattern must repeat itself?

I hate to be too verbose. It's nice to have time to read & dwell on information, I'm an intellectual after all, but ffs, life is busy, people have other things to do than read 4309625 pages of 342095749573 words each ruminating verbiage over & over. So I'm definitely cognizant of how wasteful it can be to wall it up.

But to be fair, I'm usually a lot more terse than e.g. our dear friend, JJG. So, this was something that needed to be explained comprehensively. I'd been holding back on some of this stuff for almost a year =/

Post-Comic (Edit: I mean Post-Cosmic, must have been a Freudian-slip):

If this is how you refer to your "dear friends", I would hate to be on your bad side. Roll Eyes

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 10:11:15 PM

Quote from: Brewins on September 30, 2014, 08:43:58 PM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 08:23:43 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 30, 2014, 12:05:22 PM

Quote from: byronbb on September 30, 2014, 12:03:26 PM

Quote from: inca on September 30, 2014, 11:58:54 AM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 11:56:44 AM

Can you imagine how dire it is if the previous years' bubbles were mostly just caused & accentuated by Willy & Markus bots.

It would mean the 2012 price of $13, the early 2013 price of ~$58 - That's what the real, uninflated, current fair market price of BTC would be at today.

With the way PayPal news' rise was crushed like an insect, because of zero demand, it's hard to not give some weight to that theory^ - Prices have behaved as if drawn down to a plausibly true fair market value in the $70-130 range, just like most of last year.

Bubble patterns happen.

Then they break. A different pattern emerges.

Your dreams, your hopes, your delusions, have killed your profitability, for 9 months now.

Just like they crippled me, until I woke up, in May.

Are you serious?

The argument that bitcoin is grossly overvalued is not outrageous.

nether is the argument that bitcoin is grossly undervalued.

Very true, Adam, absolutely. However, it is quite obvious to me the argument for BTC to be undervalued is significantly more outrageous than it is for it to be overvalued.

I've always said bitcoin is beautiful, and was needed. Blockchain is an invaluable technology, and it's core currency itself has been tremendously useful in streamlining & simplifying online payments - What would we do without it.

That being said, unfortunately, great value does not automatically equate great price. For price is fundamentally derived entirely from supply & demand, whether or not those last two happen to be affected by market manipulation, good/bad news, external unusual circumstances, asset allocation, or hashing developments/crypto-economics.

And thus, one shouldn't buy BTC because they perceive it as 'more useful' and sell it when seen as 'useless'. I can 'believe in bitcoin' & use it to make money seamlessly, yet still expect further price drops and hold no hope for some grand bubble to rescue bagholders. The market's ebbs & flows from 2009 up to 2013 were quite natural/organic for the most part and justified by the budding crypto-economic ecosystems springing up everywhere. Starting w/ the Goxbots' 2013' antics, however, that statement starts becoming tenuous to make.

Keep in mind though, BTC offers unparalleled opportunities for altcoin pump events, pseudonymous leveraged trading, and gambling - All of which I use to a major extent, so I actually would love nothing more than to be wrong. For yet another 1000% to come save us, right out of Wonderland.

But I can't responsibly have the cognitive dissonance of warping my reasoning to project, place faith in, pray for, more clockwork repeats of the same pattern, yet at far higher nominal price points which make it a lot harder to accomplish, which is why the Willy/Markus bots were even needed in the first place for the last run-up.

That's because the price is denominated in, and raised by, fiat currency. You either have to fractionally fake users' fiat balances on your exchanges, or find more and more money to reach buywalls in order for it to rise. Those dollar bills/euro's/RMB's aren't %-based, and they're not infinite, except to the banks and governments, who generally have no need to bother with cryptocurrency, when they already hold the power of money creation. That means looking at old patterns that happened at price & adoption / manipulation levels orders of magnitude lower than now, and expecting the same % gains in 'the next bubble', is a logical fallacy - money functions according to a linear, geometric basis - it is not exponential, not %-based.. !!!

And that, is why it's so much harder to go from $300-700 to $2500-7500, than it is to reach 10x from $116.

Which forms the basis of my actual expectations for the years to come : Unless the equities (stocks etc) markets experience another shattering collapse (a mere shock, a predictable solid correction to the multi-year bullish US Index & global Stock Indices, is not enough to qualify) ; Unless a major financial, geopolitical (major war), environmental (asteroid collision, zombie/ebola apocalypse) or technical (absolutely fundamental engineering / development changes in bitcoin or crypto) event seriously damages public perception & reliance on fiat currency in a long-lasting meaningful way, forcing huge numbers of non-adopters to not merely be interested / intrigued by crypto, but truly need to make it a permanent, critical part of their daily lives ; There cannot be a big bubble.

A $4k-100k price dream requires something to give in the crypto/fiat status quo. Until such an extreme series of events comes to pass, I foresee many small mini-bubbles, quite like the one from $400's to $600's in Q2 this year. Coupled with the possibility of a larger one, just once, to perhaps $1525-2175. Then the experiment is matured. The rocket has landed.

Because money is nominal, not exponential.

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

Yep.

Since it's that simple, you'd think us cryptosphere enthusiasts would've figured this out by now, hory shet, right..!??!

Had to make a big wall because people do forget that it WILL take those things to make another bubble, and because those things aren't a certainty, why would 'the mythical bubble' be..? Just because rpietila wants another pink luxury car to go w/ his pink panther tuxedo..? Just because Loaded is getting bored, and Peter R. thinks the pattern must repeat itself?

I hate to be too verbose. It's nice to have time to read & dwell on information, I'm an intellectual after all, but ffs, life is busy, people have other things to do than read 4309625 pages of 342095749573 words each ruminating verbiage over & over. So I'm definitely cognizant of how wasteful it can be to wall it up.

But to be fair, I'm usually a lot more terse than e.g. our dear friend, JJG. So, this was something that needed to be explained comprehensively. I'd been holding back on some of this stuff for almost a year =/

when i wish on a shooting star i wish for less ways to wish for an more ways to work toward it.

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 11299

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: aztecminer on September 30, 2014, 09:47:32 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 30, 2014, 09:44:29 PM

Quote from: nanobrain on September 30, 2014, 09:16:12 PM

Quote from: Brewins on September 30, 2014, 08:43:58 PM

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

What are you...a goldfish*?

Precisely why this thread can be such a waste of time: people just shouting three sentence slogans without any reasoned argument. Then, when someone constructs a coherent argument (and here's the clincher for me - an understandable argument that's not littered with obscure references to Metclaffe's Law and the like), they criticise.

If you don't have the patience/attention-span/intellect to read more than "to the moon", perhaps keep your comments to yourself?

*Actually, recent research has shown goldfish have far greater memories than commonly thought, so I'm probably giving you more credit than deserved.

Currently, amongst my favorite three word slogans:

"Cut your loose!!!!!!!!!"

I like it because it is free to be used by anyone - bear, bull or hodler.

ok i'm cutting my looses. converting as much usd as i can!

That's why the expression is so great!! Anyone can use it, whether man, woman or bot, and even mmitech. Cheesy

Post-Cosmic

full member

Activity: 175

Merit: 100

Quote from: nanobrain on September 30, 2014, 08:35:38 PM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 08:23:43 PM

Very true, Adam, absolutely. However, it is quite obvious to me the argument for BTC to be undervalued is significantly more outrageous than it is for it to be overvalued.

[..]

Because money is nominal, not exponential.

Thousands of pages of rubbish and then a true gem.

Great post.

Thank you /bow. I've always found you've been one of the rare few enlightened minds around here ;p

Post-Cosmic

full member

Activity: 175

Merit: 100

Quote from: Brewins on September 30, 2014, 08:43:58 PM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 08:23:43 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 30, 2014, 12:05:22 PM

Quote from: byronbb on September 30, 2014, 12:03:26 PM

Quote from: inca on September 30, 2014, 11:58:54 AM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 11:56:44 AM

Can you imagine how dire it is if the previous years' bubbles were mostly just caused & accentuated by Willy & Markus bots.

It would mean the 2012 price of $13, the early 2013 price of ~$58 - That's what the real, uninflated, current fair market price of BTC would be at today.

With the way PayPal news' rise was crushed like an insect, because of zero demand, it's hard to not give some weight to that theory^ - Prices have behaved as if drawn down to a plausibly true fair market value in the $70-130 range, just like most of last year.

Bubble patterns happen.

Then they break. A different pattern emerges.

Your dreams, your hopes, your delusions, have killed your profitability, for 9 months now.

Just like they crippled me, until I woke up, in May.

Are you serious?

The argument that bitcoin is grossly overvalued is not outrageous.

nether is the argument that bitcoin is grossly undervalued.

Very true, Adam, absolutely. However, it is quite obvious to me the argument for BTC to be undervalued is significantly more outrageous than it is for it to be overvalued.

I've always said bitcoin is beautiful, and was needed. Blockchain is an invaluable technology, and it's core currency itself has been tremendously useful in streamlining & simplifying online payments - What would we do without it.

That being said, unfortunately, great value does not automatically equate great price. For price is fundamentally derived entirely from supply & demand, whether or not those last two happen to be affected by market manipulation, good/bad news, external unusual circumstances, asset allocation, or hashing developments/crypto-economics.

And thus, one shouldn't buy BTC because they perceive it as 'more useful' and sell it when seen as 'useless'. I can 'believe in bitcoin' & use it to make money seamlessly, yet still expect further price drops and hold no hope for some grand bubble to rescue bagholders. The market's ebbs & flows from 2009 up to 2013 were quite natural/organic for the most part and justified by the budding crypto-economic ecosystems springing up everywhere. Starting w/ the Goxbots' 2013' antics, however, that statement starts becoming tenuous to make.

Keep in mind though, BTC offers unparalleled opportunities for altcoin pump events, pseudonymous leveraged trading, and gambling - All of which I use to a major extent, so I actually would love nothing more than to be wrong. For yet another 1000% to come save us, right out of Wonderland.

But I can't responsibly have the cognitive dissonance of warping my reasoning to project, place faith in, pray for, more clockwork repeats of the same pattern, yet at far higher nominal price points which make it a lot harder to accomplish, which is why the Willy/Markus bots were even needed in the first place for the last run-up.

That's because the price is denominated in, and raised by, fiat currency. You either have to fractionally fake users' fiat balances on your exchanges, or find more and more money to reach buywalls in order for it to rise. Those dollar bills/euro's/RMB's aren't %-based, and they're not infinite, except to the banks and governments, who generally have no need to bother with cryptocurrency, when they already hold the power of money creation. That means looking at old patterns that happened at price & adoption / manipulation levels orders of magnitude lower than now, and expecting the same % gains in 'the next bubble', is a logical fallacy - money functions according to a linear, geometric basis - it is not exponential, not %-based.. !!!

And that, is why it's so much harder to go from $300-700 to $2500-7500, than it is to reach 10x from $116.

Which forms the basis of my actual expectations for the years to come : Unless the equities (stocks etc) markets experience another shattering collapse (a mere shock, a predictable solid correction to the multi-year bullish US Index & global Stock Indices, is not enough to qualify) ; Unless a major financial, geopolitical (major war), environmental (asteroid collision, zombie/ebola apocalypse) or technical (absolutely fundamental engineering / development changes in bitcoin or crypto) event seriously damages public perception & reliance on fiat currency in a long-lasting meaningful way, forcing huge numbers of non-adopters to not merely be interested / intrigued by crypto, but truly need to make it a permanent, critical part of their daily lives ; There cannot be a big bubble.

A $4k-100k price dream requires something to give in the crypto/fiat status quo. Until such an extreme series of events comes to pass, I foresee many small mini-bubbles, quite like the one from $400's to $600's in Q2 this year. Coupled with the possibility of a larger one, just once, to perhaps $1525-2175. Then the experiment is matured. The rocket has landed.

Because money is nominal, not exponential.

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

Yep.

Since it's that simple, you'd think us cryptosphere enthusiasts would've figured this out by now, hory shet, right..!??!

Had to make a big wall because people do forget that it WILL take those things to make another bubble, and because those things aren't a certainty, why would 'the mythical bubble' be..? Just because rpietila wants another pink luxury car to go w/ his pink panther tuxedo..? Just because Loaded is getting bored, and Peter R. thinks the pattern must repeat itself?

I hate to be too verbose. It's nice to have time to read & dwell on information, I'm an intellectual after all, but ffs, life is busy, people have other things to do than read 4309625 pages of 342095749573 words each ruminating verbiage over & over. So I'm definitely cognizant of how wasteful it can be to wall it up.

But to be fair, I'm usually a lot more terse than e.g. our dear friend, JJG. So, this was something that needed to be explained comprehensively. I'd been holding back on some of this stuff for almost a year =/

fonzie

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Moderator

China is serious this time, fast and brutal bull run about to continue. Pump round 2 in the making!
No hostages will be made!

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

BitChick

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1001

Quote from: nanobrain on September 30, 2014, 08:35:38 PM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 08:23:43 PM

Very true, Adam, absolutely. However, it is quite obvious to me the argument for BTC to be undervalued is significantly more outrageous than it is for it to be overvalued.

I've always said bitcoin is beautiful, and was needed. Blockchain is an invaluable technology, and it's core currency itself has been tremendously useful in streamlining & simplifying online payments - What would we do without it.

That being said, unfortunately, great value does not automatically equate great price. For price is fundamentally derived entirely from supply & demand, whether or not those last two happen to be affected by market manipulation, good/bad news, external unusual circumstances, asset allocation, or hashing developments/crypto-economics.

And thus, one shouldn't buy BTC because they perceive it as 'more useful' and sell it when seen as 'useless'. I can 'believe in bitcoin' & use it to make money seamlessly, yet still expect further price drops and hold no hope for some grand bubble to rescue bagholders. The market's ebbs & flows from 2009 up to 2013 were quite natural/organic for the most part and justified by the budding crypto-economic ecosystems springing up everywhere. Starting w/ the Goxbots' 2013' antics, however, that statement starts becoming tenuous to make.

Keep in mind though, BTC offers unparalleled opportunities for altcoin pump events, pseudonymous leveraged trading, and gambling - All of which I use to a major extent, so I actually would love nothing more than to be wrong. For yet another 1000% to come save us, right out of Wonderland.

But I can't responsibly have the cognitive dissonance of warping my reasoning to project, place faith in, pray for, more clockwork repeats of the same pattern, yet at far higher nominal price points which make it a lot harder to accomplish, which is why the Willy/Markus bots were even needed in the first place for the last run-up.

That's because the price is denominated in, and raised by, fiat currency. You either have to fractionally fake users' fiat balances on your exchanges, or find more and more money to reach buywalls in order for it to rise. Those dollar bills/euro's/RMB's aren't %-based, and they're not infinite, except to the banks and governments, who generally have no need to bother with cryptocurrency, when they already hold the power of money creation. That means looking at old patterns that happened at price & adoption / manipulation levels orders of magnitude lower than now, and expecting the same % gains in 'the next bubble', is a logical fallacy - money functions according to a linear, geometric basis - it is not exponential, not %-based.. !!!

And that, is why it's so much harder to go from $300-700 to $2500-7500, than it is to reach 10x from $116.

Which forms the basis of my actual expectations for the years to come : Unless the equities (stocks etc) markets experience another shattering collapse (a mere shock, a predictable solid correction to the multi-year bullish US Index & global Stock Indices, is not enough to qualify) ; Unless a major financial, geopolitical (major war), environmental (asteroid collision, zombie/ebola apocalypse) or technical (absolutely fundamental engineering / development changes in bitcoin or crypto) event seriously damages public perception & reliance on fiat currency in a long-lasting meaningful way, forcing huge numbers of non-adopters to not merely be interested / intrigued by crypto, but truly need to make it a permanent, critical part of their daily lives ; There cannot be a big bubble.

A $4k-100k price dream requires something to give in the crypto/fiat status quo. Until such an extreme series of events comes to pass, I foresee many small mini-bubbles, quite like the one from $400's to $600's in Q2 this year. Coupled with the possibility of a larger one, just once, to perhaps $1525-2175. Then the experiment is matured. The rocket has landed.

Because money is nominal, not exponential.

Thousands of pages of rubbish and then a true gem.

Great post.

Nanobrain, I seem to remember posts like these before the last two bubbles. The same logic was there, that it was harder to go from $X.XX to $XXX.00 and so on.

But Bitcoin is the honey badger of money. Bitcoin does not care about what is logical or even what makes sense. It rises when it wants to in mind blowing ways. I don't believe we will see a "mini-bubble" it will be a bubble beyond our belief. I believe, based mostly on knowing how humans work and the greed at play, that when the price beings to rise there will be people that have been waiting on the sidelines because they were unsure of what was going to happen, panic buying. With the panic will come hysteria. As the thousands of newbies that have not yet experienced a bubble yet see how quickly the price can rise watch they will suddenly throw caution to the wind and throw in what they can as well. It will be crazy. It will make no sense and Bitcoin will probably be overvalued at that point.

All that said, TO THE MOON.

empowering

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1441

Quote from: nanobrain on September 30, 2014, 09:38:18 PM

This is for empowering

James Bond vs The Global Recession
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKeoOnSvXn4

I'm sure he loves Cassetteboy.

ermm... I am utterly lost?

It is late here right now and I am literally half asleep

(care to explain what exactly I am supposed to get from this?)

aztecminer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 30, 2014, 09:44:29 PM

Quote from: nanobrain on September 30, 2014, 09:16:12 PM

Quote from: Brewins on September 30, 2014, 08:43:58 PM

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

What are you...a goldfish*?

Precisely why this thread can be such a waste of time: people just shouting three sentence slogans without any reasoned argument. Then, when someone constructs a coherent argument (and here's the clincher for me - an understandable argument that's not littered with obscure references to Metclaffe's Law and the like), they criticise.

If you don't have the patience/attention-span/intellect to read more than "to the moon", perhaps keep your comments to yourself?

*Actually, recent research has shown goldfish have far greater memories than commonly thought, so I'm probably giving you more credit than deserved.

Currently, amongst my favorite three word slogans:

"Cut your loose!!!!!!!!!"

I like it because it is free to be used by anyone - bear, bull or hodler.

ok i'm cutting my looses. converting as much usd as i can!

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 11299

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: nanobrain on September 30, 2014, 09:16:12 PM

Quote from: Brewins on September 30, 2014, 08:43:58 PM

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

What are you...a goldfish*?

Precisely why this thread can be such a waste of time: people just shouting three sentence slogans without any reasoned argument. Then, when someone constructs a coherent argument (and here's the clincher for me - an understandable argument that's not littered with obscure references to Metclaffe's Law and the like), they criticise.

If you don't have the patience/attention-span/intellect to read more than "to the moon", perhaps keep your comments to yourself?

*Actually, recent research has shown goldfish have far greater memories than commonly thought, so I'm probably giving you more credit than deserved.

Currently, amongst my favorite three word slogans:

"Cut your loose!!!!!!!!!"

I like it because it is free to be used by anyone - bear, bull or hodler.

aztecminer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: mmitech on September 30, 2014, 02:14:30 PM

Quote from: klee on September 30, 2014, 02:07:16 PM

I bought in the first bubble at 28 but I dont bitch around like a girlie man.

MAN THE FUCK UP

oh, you've got it all wrong, I didn't lose a penny, in fact I was a lucky bastard, but most of the people I know that came around the end of 2013 and start of this year don't appreciate your retard attitude ... you need fresh blood to make your investment worthwhile, and you don't give a fuck about what will happen to these people, of course you wouldn't care if Bitcoin continues to slide to $100 your average cost is way bellow this, but others do.

the difference between the stock market and Bitcoin is that you want to sell this technology to everyone in the world: "everyone must know what Bitcoin is", "Bitcoin is freedom", "people just don't know it", "you have to buy bitcoin"... let me tell you something: "bull shit"

well you never lose or gain until you sell ..
although honestly i am not sure having usd is really winning .

nanobrain

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Dumb broad

This is for empowering

James Bond vs The Global Recession
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKeoOnSvXn4

I'm sure he loves Cassetteboy.

nanobrain

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Dumb broad

Quote from: Brewins on September 30, 2014, 08:43:58 PM

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

What are you...a goldfish*?

Precisely why this thread can be such a waste of time: people just shouting three sentence slogans without any reasoned argument. Then, when someone constructs a coherent argument (and here's the clincher for me - an understandable argument that's not littered with obscure references to Metclaffe's Law and the like), they criticise.

If you don't have the patience/attention-span/intellect to read more than "to the moon", perhaps keep your comments to yourself?

*Actually, recent research has shown goldfish have far greater memories than commonly thought, so I'm probably giving you more credit than deserved.

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

Brewins

legendary

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 08:23:43 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 30, 2014, 12:05:22 PM

Quote from: byronbb on September 30, 2014, 12:03:26 PM

Quote from: inca on September 30, 2014, 11:58:54 AM

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 11:56:44 AM

Can you imagine how dire it is if the previous years' bubbles were mostly just caused & accentuated by Willy & Markus bots.

It would mean the 2012 price of $13, the early 2013 price of ~$58 - That's what the real, uninflated, current fair market price of BTC would be at today.

With the way PayPal news' rise was crushed like an insect, because of zero demand, it's hard to not give some weight to that theory^ - Prices have behaved as if drawn down to a plausibly true fair market value in the $70-130 range, just like most of last year.

Bubble patterns happen.

Then they break. A different pattern emerges.

Your dreams, your hopes, your delusions, have killed your profitability, for 9 months now.

Just like they crippled me, until I woke up, in May.

Are you serious?

The argument that bitcoin is grossly overvalued is not outrageous.

nether is the argument that bitcoin is grossly undervalued.

Very true, Adam, absolutely. However, it is quite obvious to me the argument for BTC to be undervalued is significantly more outrageous than it is for it to be overvalued.

I've always said bitcoin is beautiful, and was needed. Blockchain is an invaluable technology, and it's core currency itself has been tremendously useful in streamlining & simplifying online payments - What would we do without it.

That being said, unfortunately, great value does not automatically equate great price. For price is fundamentally derived entirely from supply & demand, whether or not those last two happen to be affected by market manipulation, good/bad news, external unusual circumstances, asset allocation, or hashing developments/crypto-economics.

And thus, one shouldn't buy BTC because they perceive it as 'more useful' and sell it when seen as 'useless'. I can 'believe in bitcoin' & use it to make money seamlessly, yet still expect further price drops and hold no hope for some grand bubble to rescue bagholders. The market's ebbs & flows from 2009 up to 2013 were quite natural/organic for the most part and justified by the budding crypto-economic ecosystems springing up everywhere. Starting w/ the Goxbots' 2013' antics, however, that statement starts becoming tenuous to make.

Keep in mind though, BTC offers unparalleled opportunities for altcoin pump events, pseudonymous leveraged trading, and gambling - All of which I use to a major extent, so I actually would love nothing more than to be wrong. For yet another 1000% to come save us, right out of Wonderland.

But I can't responsibly have the cognitive dissonance of warping my reasoning to project, place faith in, pray for, more clockwork repeats of the same pattern, yet at far higher nominal price points which make it a lot harder to accomplish, which is why the Willy/Markus bots were even needed in the first place for the last run-up.

That's because the price is denominated in, and raised by, fiat currency. You either have to fractionally fake users' fiat balances on your exchanges, or find more and more money to reach buywalls in order for it to rise. Those dollar bills/euro's/RMB's aren't %-based, and they're not infinite, except to the banks and governments, who generally have no need to bother with cryptocurrency, when they already hold the power of money creation. That means looking at old patterns that happened at price & adoption / manipulation levels orders of magnitude lower than now, and expecting the same % gains in 'the next bubble', is a logical fallacy - money functions according to a linear, geometric basis - it is not exponential, not %-based.. !!!

And that, is why it's so much harder to go from $300-700 to $2500-7500, than it is to reach 10x from $116.

Which forms the basis of my actual expectations for the years to come : Unless the equities (stocks etc) markets experience another shattering collapse (a mere shock, a predictable solid correction to the multi-year bullish US Index & global Stock Indices, is not enough to qualify) ; Unless a major financial, geopolitical (major war), environmental (asteroid collision, zombie/ebola apocalypse) or technical (absolutely fundamental engineering / development changes in bitcoin or crypto) event seriously damages public perception & reliance on fiat currency in a long-lasting meaningful way, forcing huge numbers of non-adopters to not merely be interested / intrigued by crypto, but truly need to make it a permanent, critical part of their daily lives ; There cannot be a big bubble.

A $4k-100k price dream requires something to give in the crypto/fiat status quo. Until such an extreme series of events comes to pass, I foresee many small mini-bubbles, quite like the one from $400's to $600's in Q2 this year. Coupled with the possibility of a larger one, just once, to perhaps $1525-2175. Then the experiment is matured. The rocket has landed.

Because money is nominal, not exponential.

Seems like a text generated by the bitcoin text wall generator.

Everything to say that the bigger the price, the harder to form another bubble and many things will need to happen until we reach moon?

nanobrain

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Dumb broad

Quote from: Post-Cosmic on September 30, 2014, 08:23:43 PM

Very true, Adam, absolutely. However, it is quite obvious to me the argument for BTC to be undervalued is significantly more outrageous than it is for it to be overvalued.

I've always said bitcoin is beautiful, and was needed. Blockchain is an invaluable technology, and it's core currency itself has been tremendously useful in streamlining & simplifying online payments - What would we do without it.

That being said, unfortunately, great value does not automatically equate great price. For price is fundamentally derived entirely from supply & demand, whether or not those last two happen to be affected by market manipulation, good/bad news, external unusual circumstances, asset allocation, or hashing developments/crypto-economics.

And thus, one shouldn't buy BTC because they perceive it as 'more useful' and sell it when seen as 'useless'. I can 'believe in bitcoin' & use it to make money seamlessly, yet still expect further price drops and hold no hope for some grand bubble to rescue bagholders. The market's ebbs & flows from 2009 up to 2013 were quite natural/organic for the most part and justified by the budding crypto-economic ecosystems springing up everywhere. Starting w/ the Goxbots' 2013' antics, however, that statement starts becoming tenuous to make.

Keep in mind though, BTC offers unparalleled opportunities for altcoin pump events, pseudonymous leveraged trading, and gambling - All of which I use to a major extent, so I actually would love nothing more than to be wrong. For yet another 1000% to come save us, right out of Wonderland.

But I can't responsibly have the cognitive dissonance of warping my reasoning to project, place faith in, pray for, more clockwork repeats of the same pattern, yet at far higher nominal price points which make it a lot harder to accomplish, which is why the Willy/Markus bots were even needed in the first place for the last run-up.

That's because the price is denominated in, and raised by, fiat currency. You either have to fractionally fake users' fiat balances on your exchanges, or find more and more money to reach buywalls in order for it to rise. Those dollar bills/euro's/RMB's aren't %-based, and they're not infinite, except to the banks and governments, who generally have no need to bother with cryptocurrency, when they already hold the power of money creation. That means looking at old patterns that happened at price & adoption / manipulation levels orders of magnitude lower than now, and expecting the same % gains in 'the next bubble', is a logical fallacy - money functions according to a linear, geometric basis - it is not exponential, not %-based.. !!!

And that, is why it's so much harder to go from $300-700 to $2500-7500, than it is to reach 10x from $116.

Which forms the basis of my actual expectations for the years to come : Unless the equities (stocks etc) markets experience another shattering collapse (a mere shock, a predictable solid correction to the multi-year bullish US Index & global Stock Indices, is not enough to qualify) ; Unless a major financial, geopolitical (major war), environmental (asteroid collision, zombie/ebola apocalypse) or technical (absolutely fundamental engineering / development changes in bitcoin or crypto) event seriously damages public perception & reliance on fiat currency in a long-lasting meaningful way, forcing huge numbers of non-adopters to not merely be interested / intrigued by crypto, but truly need to make it a permanent, critical part of their daily lives ; There cannot be a big bubble.

A $4k-100k price dream requires something to give in the crypto/fiat status quo. Until such an extreme series of events comes to pass, I foresee many small mini-bubbles, quite like the one from $400's to $600's in Q2 this year. Coupled with the possibility of a larger one, just once, to perhaps $1525-2175. Then the experiment is matured. The rocket has landed.

Because money is nominal, not exponential.

Thousands of pages of rubbish and then a true gem.

Great post.

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 25456. (Read 26608306 times)