Even though we haven't gone up in price yet, I wonder what the ones that shorted 10K BTC are thinking now that paypal is integrating.
Any of those shorters here in this thread? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 25915. (Read 26608250 times)
September 08, 2014, 11:06:57 PM
September 08, 2014, 11:05:32 PM
Low volume dumps. We either haven't seen anything and worst is to come or there is no much will to sell at these levels anymore.
we dropped about $20 yesterday
September 08, 2014, 10:59:09 PM
September 08, 2014, 10:46:11 PM
Low volume dumps. We either haven't seen anything and worst is to come or there is no much will to sell at these levels anymore.
September 08, 2014, 10:42:48 PM
September 08, 2014, 10:17:16 PM
mark my words, bitcoin invalidates the old saying " nobody ever went broke taking profits. "
carry on....
carry on....
September 08, 2014, 10:15:57 PM
need some paper?
need some toilet paper?
September 08, 2014, 10:10:34 PM
I just dont fucking get it... the volume is very small, yet we are plummeting.. i guess the good news is that it wont take much for it to go back up. but we are hearing good news..paypal/ebay taking bitcoin. companies paying their employees in bitcoin.. you would think bitcoin should be closer to 800 rather than 400..
I wonder if the hack has anything to with it.. I've given up trying to figure out why bitcoin dips and goes up..
I wonder if the hack has anything to with it.. I've given up trying to figure out why bitcoin dips and goes up..
Over 10k coins in shorts.
To protect their position and pressure the price lower, they put up huge walls and drop them on each dip.
Someday, bulls will grow balls and attack walls instead of retreating. Unfortunately, today is not that day.
September 08, 2014, 10:10:05 PM
very close to both hands time again ...
September 08, 2014, 10:06:47 PM
Perhaps an example helps.
Suppose @RPietila is now in the US (to simplify the example) and wants to buy a bottle of fine French wine that costs 500$ if paid in cash at the store -- just the current market price of 1 BTC -- with free delivery to @RPietila's location. The wine merchant "accepts bitcoin" through Bitpay.
GOING THROUGH BITCOIN:
Years ago, when the price was 3$/BTC, all fees included, @Rpietila bought (say) 1.03 BTC for 3.09$
Today, @Rpietila clicks the bitcoin payment option and is directed to a Bitpay form that specifies the amount of bitcoin he must send, which is 1 BTC plus (say) 0.03 BTC to cover all the costs and fees.
@Rpietila transfers 1.03 BTC to the Bitpay address, shown on the form. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
Bitpay sends 500$ to the wine merchant's bank account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.
Bitpay sends the 1.03 BTC to Bitstamp and puts it up for sale. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
@JayJuanGee deposits 520$ into his Bitstamp account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.
@JayJuanGee buys the 1.03 BTC for 515$ (suppose that, by miracle, the price hasn't changed). Pays a trading fee on that, let's say another 5$.
@JayJuanGee withdraws the 1.03 BTC. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
@Bitpay now has 515$ in its Bitstamp account. Withdraws 510$ to its bank account and pays a withdrawal/bank transfer fee of $5.
NET RESULT:
Bitpay paid 505$ (including one bank fee) and received 510$ (after all Bitstamp fees). The 5$ difference is their processing fee.
@RPietila paid 3.09$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$. He has the same amount of bitcoins that he would have if he did not buy those 1.03 BTC way then.
@JayJuanGee paid 525$ for the privilege of paying the rest of @Rpietila's wine bill (496.91$), plus three bank transfer fees, the Bitstamp trading fee, and the Bitpay processing fee; but he now has 1.03 BTC more in his hoard, nominally worth 515$, that he may be able to sell to @Erdogan tomorrow and thus pass that privilege on to him.
WITHOUT GOING THROUGH BITCOIN
@Rpietila clicks the bank payment option and gets the wine merchant's bank account #.
@RPietila sends 500$ to that account, pays a bank transfer fee of 5$.
NET RESULT:
@RPietila paid 505$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.
CONCLUSION: Left as an exercise.
Suppose @RPietila is now in the US (to simplify the example) and wants to buy a bottle of fine French wine that costs 500$ if paid in cash at the store -- just the current market price of 1 BTC -- with free delivery to @RPietila's location. The wine merchant "accepts bitcoin" through Bitpay.
GOING THROUGH BITCOIN:
Years ago, when the price was 3$/BTC, all fees included, @Rpietila bought (say) 1.03 BTC for 3.09$
Today, @Rpietila clicks the bitcoin payment option and is directed to a Bitpay form that specifies the amount of bitcoin he must send, which is 1 BTC plus (say) 0.03 BTC to cover all the costs and fees.
@Rpietila transfers 1.03 BTC to the Bitpay address, shown on the form. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
Bitpay sends 500$ to the wine merchant's bank account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.
Bitpay sends the 1.03 BTC to Bitstamp and puts it up for sale. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
@JayJuanGee deposits 520$ into his Bitstamp account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.
@JayJuanGee buys the 1.03 BTC for 515$ (suppose that, by miracle, the price hasn't changed). Pays a trading fee on that, let's say another 5$.
@JayJuanGee withdraws the 1.03 BTC. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
@Bitpay now has 515$ in its Bitstamp account. Withdraws 510$ to its bank account and pays a withdrawal/bank transfer fee of $5.
NET RESULT:
Bitpay paid 505$ (including one bank fee) and received 510$ (after all Bitstamp fees). The 5$ difference is their processing fee.
@RPietila paid 3.09$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$. He has the same amount of bitcoins that he would have if he did not buy those 1.03 BTC way then.
@JayJuanGee paid 525$ for the privilege of paying the rest of @Rpietila's wine bill (496.91$), plus three bank transfer fees, the Bitstamp trading fee, and the Bitpay processing fee; but he now has 1.03 BTC more in his hoard, nominally worth 515$, that he may be able to sell to @Erdogan tomorrow and thus pass that privilege on to him.
WITHOUT GOING THROUGH BITCOIN
@Rpietila clicks the bank payment option and gets the wine merchant's bank account #.
@RPietila sends 500$ to that account, pays a bank transfer fee of 5$.
NET RESULT:
@RPietila paid 505$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.
CONCLUSION: Left as an exercise.
Yeah... attempt to get us to bite, by using our names.... O.k.... fine.. I will bite a little bit... while kicking and screaming somewhat with the hypothetical.
I don't like homework and I do NOT own a Bitstamp account.
Further, each of us calculates his/her spending behavior based on the options available, and that may NOT always be determined by BTC price alone, or transaction fees or whether we feel that someone else is profiting from us.. but also based on convenience and ideology ... and in the case of bitcoin that we may be also using it as a storage of wealth.
Currently, I continue to buy and hold and to use BTC as a storage of wealth.
I could give a flying fuck, if some earlier adopter, whether Rpietilla or any other earlier adopter, had bought at a cheaper price than me and is potentially profiting off my buying of BTC at a greater price. If I buy BTC, then I buy at the going market rate or I attempt to time my purchase on a price dip, and I engage in this behavior based on my own individual calculations of my best interest.
These days, since my BTC portfolio is in the red, if I use BTC to purchase any kind of item, I immediately replace that BTC with additional BTC purchases.
All your various numbers in your hypothetical are quasi-irrelevant because each person is going to calculate his/her behavior based on the options available to him/her and the goals s/he is attempting to achieve... and sometimes the calculations are going to change based on prices available and whether his/her portfolio is in the red or black and by how much.
September 08, 2014, 10:05:27 PM
I just dont fucking get it... the volume is very small, yet we are plummeting.. i guess the good news is that it wont take much for it to go back up. but we are hearing good news..paypal/ebay taking bitcoin. companies paying their employees in bitcoin.. you would think bitcoin should be closer to 800 rather than 400..
I wonder if the hack has anything to with it.. I've given up trying to figure out why bitcoin dips and goes up..
I wonder if the hack has anything to with it.. I've given up trying to figure out why bitcoin dips and goes up..
You need to take a step back and look at the larger picture. These dips mean nothing.
In this speculation market, the price is months, if not years, in front of value. Price is still a magnitude above the current value. Today we have received news that there is a potential for the gap between them to shrink.
All of this paypal adoption stuff has been priced into the price for a year or more.
September 08, 2014, 10:01:36 PM
Normally i'm a silent reader but the price swings lately - especially today - made me register for an account.
Are we really going to "da moon" because of today's news? I have been holding coins for the last two months so i would sure hope for a bit of an upswing.
Clearly PayPal is a huge payment processor and them using bitcoins is another big advertisement for bitcoin.
I'm just not sure if braintree/paypal will just act as a gateway to coinbase or what their plan is.
My understanding is that people will be abled to use their paypal account for payments in another "foreign currency", the XBT/BTC/COIN.
In that case people won't have to learn how bitcoin works. In my opinion, bitcoin will go further into the background.
PayPal will buy new coins each time someone buys a product and quickly after that the merchant will dump these coins again.
People won't need to buy coins on their own and fear a fluctuating exchange rate.
While i see the huge advantage for the non-techies, i don't think it will have a huge impact on the price.
Please share your views on this, i'm interested in your opinions.
Are we really going to "da moon" because of today's news? I have been holding coins for the last two months so i would sure hope for a bit of an upswing.
Clearly PayPal is a huge payment processor and them using bitcoins is another big advertisement for bitcoin.
I'm just not sure if braintree/paypal will just act as a gateway to coinbase or what their plan is.
My understanding is that people will be abled to use their paypal account for payments in another "foreign currency", the XBT/BTC/COIN.
In that case people won't have to learn how bitcoin works. In my opinion, bitcoin will go further into the background.
PayPal will buy new coins each time someone buys a product and quickly after that the merchant will dump these coins again.
People won't need to buy coins on their own and fear a fluctuating exchange rate.
While i see the huge advantage for the non-techies, i don't think it will have a huge impact on the price.
Please share your views on this, i'm interested in your opinions.
Forget the price for a moment. Daily and weekly price movements are noise. Everyone who cries about companies adopting btc because it puts pressure on the price needs to get a brain that thinks more than a week in advance.
The big picture is that the future of bitcoin is adoption and usage by more and more people. Dell, Global Payments, PayPal, etc, are all steps forward in usage. Remittance actually works in the Philippines, at a total cost of 2% (buying, transmitting, selling, dumping cash into bank account), and other countries will follow. None of these will have a huge short term impact on price. But they are necessary and huge successes in the long term, and should be priced in as major stepping stones forward.
The next step is store of value, taking on the tax haven money and gold bugs. These will have a much larger effect on price, but require more stability in price.
If you only care about the price in 6 months, hate on PayPal adoption. If you care about the price in 2 years, cheer for PayPal adoption. More usage, more adoption, demands a higher market cap in the future.
Spot on! People really need to focus less on current price and contemplate more about fundamental.
Warren Buffett believes in value investing. He buys shares of companies where prices are currently low but have good fundamentals. If bitcoin is a company, it will fall into this category. (Warren Buffett is not a bitcoin believer but that is because he is from the previous generation)
And why does bitcoin have good fundamentals? Think about the world before bitcoin. Do we have a common currency denominator? The closest is gold. But despite its many advantages, it does not allow instantaneous transfer of value across huge distance. But bitcoin allows this. When the US is the sole superpower, it makes sense to use USD, despite the US using the monopoly to its advantage. But the US and by extension the USD is declining, so there is a need for a new common currency denominator.
Think about micropayments. Today, only credit cards, paypal and money processing companies allow electronic payments. Because their minimum charge for money transfer is ridiculously high, micropayments are not feasible. Bitcoin allows micropayments, since you can transfer small amount of btc at 0 fee. The only qualm I have it takes a long time to confirm.
Think about store of value. The value of btc is generally rising. It will continue rising if adoption keeps on increasing. When the day comes when btc becomes as common as gold, people will think of btc as gold, in terms of its store of value. Because the base is huge, its price will not move much when people buy and sell at any given time. There are many more reasons why bitcoin is a superior form of asset, just do some research.
I will be concerned if we have a good piece of technology but only a small minority of the geeks are smart enough to know and use it. But today, after 5 years since the birth of bitcoin, it is no longer the geeks. It is the miners, speculators, VCs and entrepreneurs. Increasingly, with big companies like Dell and Expedia, merchants and consumers are joining as well. We have passed the point where no one knows about bitcoin. We are at the point where bitcoin is beginning to enter mainstream. The perception of bitcoin has changed. The mainstream media no longer casts bitcoin in an overwhelmingly negative light, associating it with drugs and scams. To be sure, elements of negativity still exist and the focus has changed. Now it is about how bitcoin can be used by merchants and consumers to facilitate ecommerce in a low cost and trendy way.
But still, my concern is how long bitcoin will last? Will there be a next technology wave that succeed bitcoin? My answer is yes though I do not know when and what that will be. But as it stands now, we are just beginning and today, there is no technology superior and more widely accepted than bitcoin. It makes sense to hop onto the bandwagon and enjoy the ride up!
Scarce
Durable
Portable
Divisible
Impossible to counterfeit
Fungible ( any 1 BTC has the same value as any other )
Easy to keep safe ( contrary to popular belief, it easy to print out a paper wallet...)
what more do you want?
the simple truth is bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.
so, no, there will never be a "next technology wave" that succeed bitcoin, bitcoin will make use of "the next technology wave"
but... holding some Ether JUST IN CASE might not be a bad idea
i sell you some at goooood price
September 08, 2014, 09:59:09 PM
September 08, 2014, 09:53:57 PM
Normally i'm a silent reader but the price swings lately - especially today - made me register for an account.
Are we really going to "da moon" because of today's news? I have been holding coins for the last two months so i would sure hope for a bit of an upswing.
Clearly PayPal is a huge payment processor and them using bitcoins is another big advertisement for bitcoin.
I'm just not sure if braintree/paypal will just act as a gateway to coinbase or what their plan is.
My understanding is that people will be abled to use their paypal account for payments in another "foreign currency", the XBT/BTC/COIN.
In that case people won't have to learn how bitcoin works. In my opinion, bitcoin will go further into the background.
PayPal will buy new coins each time someone buys a product and quickly after that the merchant will dump these coins again.
People won't need to buy coins on their own and fear a fluctuating exchange rate.
While i see the huge advantage for the non-techies, i don't think it will have a huge impact on the price.
Please share your views on this, i'm interested in your opinions.
Are we really going to "da moon" because of today's news? I have been holding coins for the last two months so i would sure hope for a bit of an upswing.
Clearly PayPal is a huge payment processor and them using bitcoins is another big advertisement for bitcoin.
I'm just not sure if braintree/paypal will just act as a gateway to coinbase or what their plan is.
My understanding is that people will be abled to use their paypal account for payments in another "foreign currency", the XBT/BTC/COIN.
In that case people won't have to learn how bitcoin works. In my opinion, bitcoin will go further into the background.
PayPal will buy new coins each time someone buys a product and quickly after that the merchant will dump these coins again.
People won't need to buy coins on their own and fear a fluctuating exchange rate.
While i see the huge advantage for the non-techies, i don't think it will have a huge impact on the price.
Please share your views on this, i'm interested in your opinions.
Forget the price for a moment. Daily and weekly price movements are noise. Everyone who cries about companies adopting btc because it puts pressure on the price needs to get a brain that thinks more than a week in advance.
The big picture is that the future of bitcoin is adoption and usage by more and more people. Dell, Global Payments, PayPal, etc, are all steps forward in usage. Remittance actually works in the Philippines, at a total cost of 2% (buying, transmitting, selling, dumping cash into bank account), and other countries will follow. None of these will have a huge short term impact on price. But they are necessary and huge successes in the long term, and should be priced in as major stepping stones forward.
The next step is store of value, taking on the tax haven money and gold bugs. These will have a much larger effect on price, but require more stability in price.
If you only care about the price in 6 months, hate on PayPal adoption. If you care about the price in 2 years, cheer for PayPal adoption. More usage, more adoption, demands a higher market cap in the future.
Spot on! People really need to focus less on current price and contemplate more about fundamental.
Warren Buffett believes in value investing. He buys shares of companies where prices are currently low but have good fundamentals. If bitcoin is a company, it will fall into this category. (Warren Buffett is not a bitcoin believer but that is because he is from the previous generation)
And why does bitcoin have good fundamentals? Think about the world before bitcoin. Do we have a common currency denominator? The closest is gold. But despite its many advantages, it does not allow instantaneous transfer of value across huge distance. But bitcoin allows this. When the US is the sole superpower, it makes sense to use USD, despite the US using the monopoly to its advantage. But the US and by extension the USD is declining, so there is a need for a new common currency denominator.
Think about micropayments. Today, only credit cards, paypal and money processing companies allow electronic payments. Because their minimum charge for money transfer is ridiculously high, micropayments are not feasible. Bitcoin allows micropayments, since you can transfer small amount of btc at 0 fee. The only qualm I have it takes a long time to confirm.
Think about store of value. The value of btc is generally rising. It will continue rising if adoption keeps on increasing. When the day comes when btc becomes as common as gold, people will think of btc as gold, in terms of its store of value. Because the base is huge, its price will not move much when people buy and sell at any given time. There are many more reasons why bitcoin is a superior form of asset, just do some research.
I will be concerned if we have a good piece of technology but only a small minority of the geeks are smart enough to know and use it. But today, after 5 years since the birth of bitcoin, it is no longer the geeks. It is the miners, speculators, VCs and entrepreneurs. Increasingly, with big companies like Dell and Expedia, merchants and consumers are joining as well. We have passed the point where no one knows about bitcoin. We are at the point where bitcoin is beginning to enter mainstream. The perception of bitcoin has changed. The mainstream media no longer casts bitcoin in an overwhelmingly negative light, associating it with drugs and scams. To be sure, elements of negativity still exist and the focus has changed. Now it is about how bitcoin can be used by merchants and consumers to facilitate ecommerce in a low cost and trendy way.
But still, my concern is how long bitcoin will last? Will there be a next technology wave that succeed bitcoin? My answer is yes though I do not know when and what that will be. But as it stands now, we are just beginning and today, there is no technology superior and more widely accepted than bitcoin. It makes sense to hop onto the bandwagon and enjoy the ride up!
September 08, 2014, 09:53:46 PM
News agencies seems very fast in catching the "satoshi" email story: here
Michael, send me some coins before I hitman you
Michael, send me some coins before I hitman you
September 08, 2014, 09:45:55 PM
something like this maybe? (the lower line touches perfectly with the $340 bottom 11th of april)
I really feel like we don't have to wait much longer for some major action
I really feel like we don't have to wait much longer for some major action
Better option:
September 08, 2014, 09:35:51 PM
something like this maybe? (the lower line touches perfectly with the $340 bottom 11th of april)
I really feel like we don't have to wait much longer for some major action
I really feel like we don't have to wait much longer for some major action
September 08, 2014, 09:35:13 PM
I'm buying again at 463, 447 and 417
Stop loss at 358.
Stop loss at 358.
i sincerely hope none of these get filled.
September 08, 2014, 09:32:04 PM
I'm buying again at 463, 447 and 417
Stop loss at 358.
Stop loss at 358.
September 08, 2014, 09:28:37 PM
I just dont fucking get it... the volume is very small, yet we are plummeting.. i guess the good news is that it wont take much for it to go back up. but we are hearing good news..paypal/ebay taking bitcoin. companies paying their employees in bitcoin.. you would think bitcoin should be closer to 800 rather than 400..
I wonder if the hack has anything to with it.. I've given up trying to figure out why bitcoin dips and goes up..
I wonder if the hack has anything to with it.. I've given up trying to figure out why bitcoin dips and goes up..
Should be at $5k, no question about it,
it really makes no fucking sense as you say
I guess it's just that markets can stay irrational for longer then you can stay sane or whatever the saying is
Jump to: