Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 26007. (Read 26608895 times)

newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Lots of short term resistance in this 2930 area. Looks like we've been trying all night to get past it. Doesn't look like it will budge. Onto 450-460 next, then? What do you guys think? Smiley

Just looked your post history.
You alway ask for new low.
You put a sign for some bits...

So look like a noob with almost 0 bitcoin dreaming about buying alot sub $10

keep dreaming
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Yes, I may used strong language from time to time, but that is NOT the same as personal attacks

Very rude language, often accompanied by circular reasoning and nearly all other kinds of (evil, but very clumsy) sophistry. The constant use of sophistry is nothing more than a perfidious form of trolling. Cynically, but also characteristically for (advanced) trolling, you are very, very fast accusing other people to troll.

/ignore

Yes... you seem to have arrived at some made-up definition regarding what is trolling and to whom it could arguably apply... though really sounds as if you are swimming in a fantasy world of your own making..

In reality, Language allows for expression and emphasis in various regards, and need NOT distract from the substance of the discussion.  Accordingly, if language suggests that someone is misleading or being disingenuous in their posts, there could be better ways to accomplish these kinds of communications to call them out.

If you are so easily distracted by my creative or NOT so creative use of language, then maybe it is better that you shut off your viewpoint and your exposure to various ideas in order that you will be able to better deal with the world as you understand it to be.  Hopefully your adaptive measures will help you in the long run in better understanding and dealing with the world as it is, rather than how you wish it were.

Good luck with that.
sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 250
Lots of short term resistance in this 2930 area. Looks like we've been trying all night to get past it. Doesn't look like it will budge. Onto 450-460 next, then? What do you guys think? Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
In other news: "Court grants man divorce over wife's demand for excessive sex" http://news.oneindia.in/mumbai/court-grants-man-divorce-over-wife-s-demand-for-excessive-sex-1512784.html

Quote
The husband alleged that she used to force him into having unnatural sex and whenever he tried to resist it, she would abuse him following which he had to succumb to her pressure and persistent demands. He told the court that he worked in three shifts leaving him very tired, and even then he was compelled to satisfy her 'lust'.


Poor guy.    Cheesy

Ok! Now think about the same news but interchanging the husband with the wife....is it still funny?

inb4:

omg! rape rape! sexism! women are opressed! etcetcetc.

The reason that the first story is funny is b/c there is a lot of irony in it, and the more likely scenario would occur with the guy dominating and forcing the sex... ... Anyhow, probably neither one of them is funny if they are merely attempting to equate biology and sociology.. and to teach some kind of gender lesson.  There are reasons both sociologically and biologically that men and women play differing roles that are likely much beyond this thread (even though it is possible for bitcoin to touch on a wide array of topics).
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Yes, I may used strong language from time to time, but that is NOT the same as personal attacks

Very rude language, often accompanied by circular reasoning and nearly all other kinds of (evil, but very clumsy) sophistry. The constant use of sophistry is nothing more than a perfidious form of trolling. Cynically, but also characteristically for (advanced) trolling, you are very, very fast accusing other people to troll.

/ignore
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
in previous discussions, you chose to include Chinese volume 1:1 in your analysis (i.e. you consider it as "real" as the volume on the other exchanges), while I consider large parts of Chinese volume meaningless for most analysis, at least when comparing cross exchanges or aggregating volume.

I am still not convinced that a "deflation factor" is justified there.

Volume is interesting, I presume, as a measure of liquidity.  Zero fees bring in more traders and also allows traders to trade on smaller spreads.  So there are both more coins in the market, and the same coins get traded many more times per day.

Should the second effect be discounted, or should it be counted as measure of liquidity, just like the first one?

Repeated trading does not provide liquidity for large buys or sells, but it shoud work for smaller ones.  With zero fees, a trader who just bought at 500$ may be willing to  sell again for 501$.  With fees, the same trader would probably hold back.   Thus, even with the same traders holding the same positions, a zero fee market would provide higher liquidity than one with fees.

Does this make sense?

In terms of market liquidity, you are absolutely right of course. But I'll try to clarify where I'm coming from when I look at volume as someone who tries to get trading insight from it:

1) volume now in relation to previous volume, same exchange, usually short history only. The much beloved "classical" TA that you appreciate so much. The simplest example is that of a capitulation and corresponding volume, for example. In that case, I don't care about volume being human or bot, based on the assumption that bot volume will represent an approximately equal share of volume during all periods (within some reasonable time frame).

2) aggregate volume over several exchanges, sometimes over a long history. This is the case where I heavily discount bot volume. Keep in mind why this volume analysis even exists: because for traders/speculators, it is perhaps the only available window into the actual on-exchange money flow (unless you happen to know the owners of mtgox or bitstamp, perhaps Tongue). Back in the golden days, it was easy to do volume price analysis like that, across eras and exchanges: there was only one relevant exchange. With the advent of zero fee exchanges, this methods obviously doesn't work anymore - automatized trading volume with very low cost (zero fee, aiming at high frequency of small profits) quite obviously (to me at least) does not bear the same relation to money flow into Bitcoin as does a large, costly human order.

How to go from the assumptions in 2) is far from obvious, but perhaps it gives you an idea why I'm interested in ways of adjusting CNY volume in the first place.

legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1008
Delusional crypto obsessionist
Do I see some sort of tsunami developing here?
I mean, it looks like a spring coil waiting to release.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
in previous discussions, you chose to include Chinese volume 1:1 in your analysis (i.e. you consider it as "real" as the volume on the other exchanges), while I consider large parts of Chinese volume meaningless for most analysis, at least when comparing cross exchanges or aggregating volume.

I am still not convinced that a "deflation factor" is justified there.

Volume is interesting, I presume, as a measure of liquidity.  Zero fees bring in more traders and also allows traders to trade on smaller spreads.  So there are both more coins in the market, and the same coins get traded many more times per day.

Should the second effect be discounted, or should it be counted as measure of liquidity, just like the first one?

Repeated trading does not provide liquidity for large buys or sells, but it shoud work for smaller ones.  With zero fees, a trader who just bought at 500$ may be willing to  sell again for 501$.  With fees, the same trader would probably hold back.   Thus, even with the same traders holding the same positions, a zero fee market would provide higher liquidity than one with fees.

Does this make sense?
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Except for that wall at $515 the ask side looks rather flat at the moment! Thing is, I don't see any reason for a quick recovery at the moment. Either we're going up constantly and sustainably or we'll be in for some more bleeding out, including flash crashes. I think the latter is more probable!

Why would anybody buy. If we go up 10 or 20 bucks some whale will dump in your face and take us back 10 dollars lower as we were before. This has been going on for months now. Unless you are the one who dumps first you are very likely to lose your money.
People stopped buying. There is no buying pressure whatsoever anymore.
The dumpers are stopping user adoption and obviously they don't care if Bitcoin will succeed or not.
So they will do this all the way to 0 if they have to.

I just wish more people here who cheer about cheap coins with every dump would realize this. There is nothing to cheer about this situation. Unless you are a troll and want Bitcoin to fail.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
In other news: "Court grants man divorce over wife's demand for excessive sex" http://news.oneindia.in/mumbai/court-grants-man-divorce-over-wife-s-demand-for-excessive-sex-1512784.html

Quote
The husband alleged that she used to force him into having unnatural sex and whenever he tried to resist it, she would abuse him following which he had to succumb to her pressure and persistent demands. He told the court that he worked in three shifts leaving him very tired, and even then he was compelled to satisfy her 'lust'.


Poor guy.    Cheesy

Ok! Now think about the same news but interchanging the husband with the wife....is it still funny?

inb4:

omg! rape rape! sexism! women are opressed! etcetcetc.

not so funny the other way around...

... the female to male way around though....

.....dating a nympho is both rewarding, tiring , and tbh can be disturbing too...  pros and cons...

it is all funny and games til the bunny is in the pot, then not so
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
Yeah! I hate ShroomsKit!
In other news: "Court grants man divorce over wife's demand for excessive sex" http://news.oneindia.in/mumbai/court-grants-man-divorce-over-wife-s-demand-for-excessive-sex-1512784.html

Quote
The husband alleged that she used to force him into having unnatural sex and whenever he tried to resist it, she would abuse him following which he had to succumb to her pressure and persistent demands. He told the court that he worked in three shifts leaving him very tired, and even then he was compelled to satisfy her 'lust'.


Poor guy.    Cheesy

Ok! Now think about the same news but interchanging the husband with the wife....is it still funny?

inb4:

omg! rape rape! sexism! women are opressed! etcetcetc.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
You're not alone. I also feel these stories are manufactured. It is not what I experience with other people.
Sure, some of them are in doubt, but others are at the brink of buying their first bitcoin because of my enthusiastic talk about it.


can you explain me how to explain the long decline to them? -20% in the last 30 days are not very enthusiastic...

+5% shorts in 24 hours could be an opportunity and the much needed momentum upwards...

look at the history broader than 30 days .. also look at the history broader than the last 9 months.  Maybe also explain diversification and only investing your comfort level rather than investing either balls to the wall or expectations to get rich quickly?  Even though you may be a trader or others may want to attempt to get rich through trading, most people lose a lot of money through trading and a more sound dollar cost averaging system should be contemplated and employed.. in other words buying and holding.. and investing in small increments.

that's more or less what i always said...don't get me wrong with my bearishness...maybe a few percent and i'm bullish again...but right now after all the dumps and failed 'rallies' i am really disappointed...

short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise...

with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected

there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it

i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money"

When did you buy in? and how did you lose money?  did you buy high and sell low? or get margin called? how exactly did you lose a lot of money?

i don't see a point in giving especially you more ammo to shoot at me


?...... I am merely asking for you to clarify your statement that you have lost money?

I am not sure how that is "ammo" to ask you to explain your statement in a way that people can understand that makes sense? other than a vague "I lost a lot of money" because that does not say much about Bitcoin on its own at all...

I am asking how you managed to accomplish losing money ?   was it buy high and sell low? or margin calls or bad trading? or are you sitting on unrealised losses, or are you talking hypothetical losses? (due to missing perfect hypothetical trades)

It makes a LOT of difference, and your answer could give context and substance to your "I lost a lot of money because Bitcoin" statement....






more or less

25% buying high/hypothetical losses
25% bad trading

since it isn't just about the money the main problem is the loss of faith in the bitcoin market...

i even unignored fallling (and ignored again)

but i am only bearish since sunday...so with a lot of new shorts and a bit of stagnation some people will maybe get nervous and give the much needed momentum to the upside


thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?




any further clarifications ?
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441


thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?



Empowering:  

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)?  



$75 and under

(though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there) 

(I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC)


I am going to attempt to resist developing "BTC buy-in price envy"    Cheesy




It was not totally faultless... I did not buy tons.... I should have acquired many many many more than I actually did under those prices...

Then after early/ mid  last year I ran out of fiat to play with, and some personal reasons had to step back from investing/buying and now I also have other interests that take up my resources and due to various reasons I am not fiat flush atm... though I do have some dry powder for certain scenarios.. if it were not for the other rather pressing responsibilities and concerns I have in other aspects of my life, I would still be a buyer... however for now, I am,  a hodler.... maybe buy the odd dip here and there, depending on what happens with some other things.

I hold a few other coins in some fair numbers.. some of those are a bit daunting to look at.... but I have not lost anything on those yet either.



legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Try and find a quote where I call Chinese volume "fake". Should be difficult (or very far into the past, maybe).

Sorry, from the bottom caption that you put in that image I inferred that you thought so.

Just for the record, I do not think that the Chinese are going to drive the price to zero.  Quite the opposite, I believe they are the ones still holding the price at the current level.  Without them, the price woud certainly be as low as the 350$ of Apr/11; perhaps as low as 150$.  But you know that I think that.

True, the caption implied that I consider the volume fake.

I guess the more accurate (but less funny :D) version is: in previous discussions, you chose to include Chinese volume 1:1 in your analysis (i.e. you consider it as "real" as the volume on the other exchanges), while I consider large parts of Chinese volume meaningless for most analysis, at least when comparing cross exchanges or aggregating volume.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441

@empowering -- as an ex-finance man I thought you were a bit more into the numbers than all the cultist clap-trap -- is this what you did with your clients "don't worry about the APR, here's an amusing gif I found on the internet"? 

EDIT -- just saw the above post -- faith is seldom shaken when you are still making a 500% profit Shocked

I think I strike a nice balance on here of laughs and contribution... maybe that is just me...

and also no... at work.... I was always stone cold serious.... I did not make many friends.

Here though everyone is a friend  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?



Empowering:  

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)?  



$75 and under

(though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there) 

(I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC)


I am going to attempt to resist developing "BTC buy-in price envy"    Cheesy






legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?



Empowering: 

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)? 

your avg price is more interesting Jay, you bought your first coins of local bitcoin higher then 1000$ right?

Thanks for your interest. 

My first 1.24 coins cost me $1,500 through Localbitcoins in late November 2013 (which was at $1200 per BTC).  Thereafter I was buying in fairly small increments for the next several months, and I ran out of fiat a few times when the prices were lower (such as in the $350s).  My average price per BTC including administrative / and transaction costs is currently at about $605. 

I did have my average cost per BTC down to $595, but then I got a bit excited in the recent $600s in part due to extensive amounts of fiat coming into my bank account (around that time - mostly in June and July). 

Due to the quantity of my current BTC holdings, I am fairly doubtful that I will be able to bring my average price per BTC down very much in the near future, and I am anticipating some bring my average price per BTC down to be possibilities when BTC prices cross above the trendline or at minimum when BTC prices cross at least 20% above my buy-in price.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441


thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?



Empowering:  

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)?  



$75 and under

(though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there)  

(I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC)

(apart from that I have never sold a single BTC)
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