Explanation
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 2609. (Read 26711453 times)
December 18, 2022, 12:01:17 AM
December 17, 2022, 11:59:32 PM
Even with all the calamity in the marketplace, Bitcoin has held up extremely well. It's more stable than most other things even when you look at a 90 day chart. When you look at what's happened over that time, it's amazing to see things so flat. There was the FTX drop but not the volatility you'd expect afterwards. More clear signs that we have to be in the accumulation phase. Now is the time to be filling your bags with BTC and setting those bags on ice for 2 years. If the paper Bitcoin problem gets solved, we could be in for real fireworks this next time around.
I fear paper Bitcoins will remain. A new sucker born every minuteLook: you, me an OgNasty can go out for dinner and fun on the town, and then the bill ends up being 1.2 Bitcoin.. but we decide NOT to pay it all in full at the moment.. so maybe OgNasty covers for you and me, Gachapin.. and therefore we each owe him 0.4 BTC.. and we decide to do payments over the next 4 years... or maybe 2 years? who knows?. we can figure out something... but in the process of agreeing to our paying back the guy with the BIG bucks (aka OgNasty), then we have created 0.8 BTC.. but hey, if we settle our bill in 4 years and pay back Ognasty for all the fun that we had out on the town, then we are back to normal after we pay him back.. and who's going to stop us from entering into such an arrangement if we all agreed to it?
However when customers buy 1 Bitcoin and they agree with the seller (exchange) that he'd hold it for them, that doesn't mean that they agree (or even know) that the same 1 Bitcoin is sold to several other people as well.
I doubt that we are saying anything different. My main point was that our agreement results in our creation of money.. blame OgNasty for that because he granted us credit.
Sure, it is possible that we never end up paying him back.
In comparison: Banks do fractional reserve too. But there is public reliable info that they do it, and that they even have a legal permission to do it ... fwiw
So you knowingly agree to such terms when creating a contract with them.
So you knowingly agree to such terms when creating a contract with them.
Maybe we are disagreeing here, in part? because I doubt that the bank is very much different, except they are just doing it on a larger scale, and they specialize in that kind of service of loaning and creating money and sure they follow standards too.. and they have licenses and permissions.. but we are able to do those kinds of things too.. just more informally.. and of course, banks might get so specialized and BIG that they are permitted special status to fuck people over.... and you remember in March 2020 or soon thereafter, banks were allowed to go from 10% reserves to zero% reserves...
Moral hazard in regards to loans and creation of money can exist on either side of the loan. Maybe we don't really disagree? - each of us is just emphasizing different aspects.
With exchanges though, I estimate that none of them publicly admit to do fractional reserve although many of them certainly do. So they never disclose it to their contracting partner, which turns it into some kind of legal or at least moral fraud (depending on local laws)
Of course they engage in fractional reserve, and I doubt that governments are going to necessarily want to stop them from engaging in behaviors to attempt to undermine bitcoin - even though sometimes they might give some lip service to "protecting people" so both of us realize, likely, that it will take a while to change behaviors and even for customers to realize that they might have to be able to preserve their contractual relationships with third parties that allow them to take possession of their coins. Some third parties will be more responsible than others, and so we all have to get used to some of these dynamics, including figuring out how much we might want to participate in any of those transitional services that are going to continue to evolve. but not without several casualties along the way including that some of us could become casualties as well if we do not sufficiently / adequately play our own hands.
[edited out]
I think CZ is smart and skillful in general at running a big exchange. But he chose to play the official spokesperson for his company, so it becomes part of his job to handle difficult questions and attacks in hostile interviews.
He clearly showed to be not well prepared for this part of his job.
Either you do the job right, or you assign a trained PR or media professional for that task.
There is just no room for fuck-ups or weak answers in such an environment (huge company, reach of interview, critical timing for credibility)
Yes. Maybe he does need to delegate some of that spokesperson work.
Elon should delegate some of his work sometimes too.. and sometimes big leaders have trouble with some of that.
December 17, 2022, 11:24:28 PM
not exactly what you'd wanna hear from CZ...
"The only correct answer would have been, we don’t use customer funds and they are available for withdrawal."
https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1603519761111031809
Now the answer to a clawback question would be that fuck that shit.. we are not giving any of it back, and the lawyers will figure out a way that we do not have to .. but if we were to have to give it back, then we would be able to handle it.. but at this point, we doubt that it is likely that we are going to have to give it back because of what it was and how it was structured.. so it is pure speculation that we would even have to give it back."The only correct answer would have been, we don’t use customer funds and they are available for withdrawal."
https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1603519761111031809
Could be. But CZ is no dummy, even though I agree that clip makes him look not so smart.. and the clip is also being misread too, so I am kind of thinking that he might have gotten caught off guard..
By the way, I think that even really smart people can get caught into weird positions and situations and they say dumb things.. so sometimes any of us can be smarter than even the greatest of geniuses when we are Monday morning quarter-backing or even if we are seeing that a situation is running out of control (like a run on the bank in relation to Binance that is likely not going to end up in a crash, but who wants a run on the bank anyhow?... even though there are probably ways to take advantage of runs on the bank, too.. including short-squeezes)..
For example, I think that Saylor is way smarter than me, but I have seen him do and say some pretty dumb things that he has had to walk back.. even Adam Back.. hahahaha.. I am not going to claim to be smarter than Adam Back, but I have seen him say some things that were not really very smart.. so maybe any of us can do it.. especially if we might have worked through a topic or even specialized in a certain area, and then we see smart people who are not very versed in the area of our specialty.
I think CZ is smart and skillful in general at running a big exchange.
But he chose to play the official spokesperson for his company, so it becomes part of his job to handle difficult questions and attacks in hostile interviews.
He clearly showed to be not well prepared for this part of his job.
Either you do the job right, or you assign a trained PR or media professional for that task.
There is just no room for fuck-ups or weak answers in such an environment (huge company, reach of interview, critical timing for credibility)
December 17, 2022, 11:01:17 PM
December 17, 2022, 10:59:49 PM
yeah and people with bigger shoe size earn more money in general. I guess we should all wear bigger shoes
December 17, 2022, 10:56:03 PM
Even with all the calamity in the marketplace, Bitcoin has held up extremely well. It's more stable than most other things even when you look at a 90 day chart. When you look at what's happened over that time, it's amazing to see things so flat. There was the FTX drop but not the volatility you'd expect afterwards. More clear signs that we have to be in the accumulation phase. Now is the time to be filling your bags with BTC and setting those bags on ice for 2 years. If the paper Bitcoin problem gets solved, we could be in for real fireworks this next time around.
I fear paper Bitcoins will remain. A new sucker born every minute
Yep.. truth of the matter is that paper bitcoin will be hard to eliminate complete.. even though it is likely people will get burnt, and burnt and burnt when they do not adequately protect themselves during circumstances in which paper bitcoin are "at issue."
Look: you, me an OgNasty can go out for dinner and fun on the town, and then the bill ends up being 1.2 Bitcoin.. but we decide NOT to pay it all in full at the moment.. so maybe OgNasty covers for you and me, Gachapin.. and therefore we each owe him 0.4 BTC.. and we decide to do payments over the next 4 years... or maybe 2 years? who knows?. we can figure out something... but in the process of agreeing to our paying back the guy with the BIG bucks (aka OgNasty), then we have created 0.8 BTC.. but hey, if we settle our bill in 4 years and pay back Ognasty for all the fun that we had out on the town, then we are back to normal after we pay him back.. and who's going to stop us from entering into such an arrangement if we all agreed to it?
Of course, we are free to make almost any contract even to our disadvantage, and we are free to trust each other or not.
However when customers buy 1 Bitcoin and they agree with the seller (exchange) that he'd hold it for them, that doesn't mean that they agree (or even know) that the same 1 Bitcoin is sold to several other people as well.
In comparison: Banks do fractional reserve too. But there is public reliable info that they do it, and that they even have a legal permission to do it ... fwiw
So you knowingly agree to such terms when creating a contract with them.
With exchanges though, I estimate that none of them publicly admit to do fractional reserve although many of them certainly do. So they never disclose it to their contracting partner, which turns it into some kind of legal or at least moral fraud (depending on local laws)
December 17, 2022, 10:40:30 PM
...
You got a good point. Touché.
....
You got a good point. Touché.
....
.... but different in reference to context.. like how this here cat had used "jelly" in that there previous sentence..
details...
....
FTFY
....
Quote from: sirazimuth link=deleted post
.......I'm a rude bastard when I drink... and when I don't drink, too.
FTFY
....
Oh bollocks! I didn't delete soon enough....You bastard....
Oh well, at least you didn't quote the juicy comment I deleted before that one ...lol
oooh... you are a brave soul indeed
December 17, 2022, 10:39:43 PM
December 17, 2022, 10:01:20 PM
December 17, 2022, 09:58:54 PM
not exactly what you'd wanna hear from CZ...
"The only correct answer would have been, we don’t use customer funds and they are available for withdrawal."
https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1603519761111031809
Now the answer to a clawback question would be that fuck that shit.. we are not giving any of it back, and the lawyers will figure out a way that we do not have to .. but if we were to have to give it back, then we would be able to handle it.. but at this point, we doubt that it is likely that we are going to have to give it back because of what it was and how it was structured.. so it is pure speculation that we would even have to give it back."The only correct answer would have been, we don’t use customer funds and they are available for withdrawal."
https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1603519761111031809
Could be. But CZ is no dummy, even though I agree that clip makes him look not so smart.. and the clip is also being misread too, so I am kind of thinking that he might have gotten caught off guard..
By the way, I think that even really smart people can get caught into weird positions and situations and they say dumb things.. so sometimes any of us can be smarter than even the greatest of geniuses when we are Monday morning quarter-backing or even if we are seeing that a situation is running out of control (like a run on the bank in relation to Binance that is likely not going to end up in a crash, but who wants a run on the bank anyhow?... even though there are probably ways to take advantage of runs on the bank, too.. including short-squeezes)..
For example, I think that Saylor is way smarter than me, but I have seen him do and say some pretty dumb things that he has had to walk back.. even Adam Back.. hahahaha.. I am not going to claim to be smarter than Adam Back, but I have seen him say some things that were not really very smart.. so maybe any of us can do it.. especially if we might have worked through a topic or even specialized in a certain area, and then we see smart people who are not very versed in the area of our specialty.
Bonding with your favorite butt buddy.. aka cryptotourist..
hahahahahahaha
Judging from last few pages, I thought he was yours .........hahahahahahaha. hahahahahahaha
You got a good point. Touché.
Wait, you are not jelly? Is that one stage up from snowflake?
You might be mixing up "jelly" with "spineless". Those are similar concepts but different in reference to context.. like how this here cat had used "jelly" in that there previous sentence..
December 17, 2022, 09:47:48 PM
Bonding with your favorite butt buddy.. aka cryptotourist..
hahahahahahaha
Wait, you are not jelly? Is that one stage up from snowflake?
December 17, 2022, 09:42:59 PM
....
I am “lame”. How old are you? 9?
I'd say maybe a little older. He wants validation.... like we all do.I am “lame”. How old are you? 9?
Lookie uie..
Bonding with your favorite butt buddy.. aka cryptotourist..
hahahahahahaha
I am blushing by merely witnessing such public display of affection..
and, no... I am not jelly.
Even with all the calamity in the marketplace, Bitcoin has held up extremely well. It's more stable than most other things even when you look at a 90 day chart. When you look at what's happened over that time, it's amazing to see things so flat. There was the FTX drop but not the volatility you'd expect afterwards. More clear signs that we have to be in the accumulation phase. Now is the time to be filling your bags with BTC and setting those bags on ice for 2 years. If the paper Bitcoin problem gets solved, we could be in for real fireworks this next time around.
I fear paper Bitcoins will remain. A new sucker born every minute
Yep.. truth of the matter is that paper bitcoin will be hard to eliminate complete.. even though it is likely people will get burnt, and burnt and burnt when they do not adequately protect themselves during circumstances in which paper bitcoin are "at issue."
Look: you, me an OgNasty can go out for dinner and fun on the town, and then the bill ends up being 1.2 Bitcoin.. but we decide NOT to pay it all in full at the moment.. so maybe OgNasty covers for you and me, Gachapin.. and therefore we each owe him 0.4 BTC.. and we decide to do payments over the next 4 years... or maybe 2 years? who knows?. we can figure out something... but in the process of agreeing to our paying back the guy with the BIG bucks (aka OgNasty), then we have created 0.8 BTC.. but hey, if we settle our bill in 4 years and pay back Ognasty for all the fun that we had out on the town, then we are back to normal after we pay him back.. and who's going to stop us from entering into such an arrangement if we all agreed to it?
December 17, 2022, 09:01:17 PM
December 17, 2022, 08:35:01 PM
not exactly what you'd wanna hear from CZ...
"The only correct answer would have been, we don’t use customer funds and they are available for withdrawal."
https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1603519761111031809
"The only correct answer would have been, we don’t use customer funds and they are available for withdrawal."
https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1603519761111031809
Now the answer to a clawback question would be that fuck that shit.. we are not giving any of it back, and the lawyers will figure out a way that we do not have to .. but if we were to have to give it back, then we would be able to handle it.. but at this point, we doubt that it is likely that we are going to have to give it back because of what it was and how it was structured.. so it is pure speculation that we would even have to give it back.
your answer above would be way better than his. I feel he needs some media training ...or a JJG bot
December 17, 2022, 08:21:07 PM
Even with all the calamity in the marketplace, Bitcoin has held up extremely well. It's more stable than most other things even when you look at a 90 day chart. When you look at what's happened over that time, it's amazing to see things so flat. There was the FTX drop but not the volatility you'd expect afterwards. More clear signs that we have to be in the accumulation phase. Now is the time to be filling your bags with BTC and setting those bags on ice for 2 years. If the paper Bitcoin problem gets solved, we could be in for real fireworks this next time around.
I fear paper Bitcoins will remain. A new sucker born every minute
December 17, 2022, 08:19:45 PM
....
I am “lame”. How old are you? 9?
I am “lame”. How old are you? 9?
I'd say maybe a little older. He wants validation.... like we all do.
December 17, 2022, 08:14:04 PM
Shadowy US Spy Firm Promises To Surveil Crypto Users For the Highest Bidder
Quote
“Anomaly 6 data can be used in multiple use cases to support cyber intelligence and operational use end states,” the leaked crypto sales deck declares. “By utilizing multiple targeting methodologies, this data can support the building of a far superior intelligence picture that enables clients to move towards actionable end states. Fusing A6 data with other classified and unclassified data sets places the client at the forefront of the cyber mission space.”
Other leaked Anomaly 6 files openly discuss how its technology is ripe for both “counterintelligence” and “source development” purposes, and it’s not merely U.S. citizens in the firing line. The firm boasts of having spied on the movements of “devices from other friendly countries,” including members of the Five Eyes global spying network, and France and Germany.
In other words, Anomaly 6 turns every citizen on Earth into a potential “person of interest” to intelligence agencies, and thus a target for recruitment, surveillance, harassment, and much, much worse, the most intimate details of their private lives easily accessible by shady actors with a few clicks of a button, and without their knowledge or consent.
Other leaked Anomaly 6 files openly discuss how its technology is ripe for both “counterintelligence” and “source development” purposes, and it’s not merely U.S. citizens in the firing line. The firm boasts of having spied on the movements of “devices from other friendly countries,” including members of the Five Eyes global spying network, and France and Germany.
In other words, Anomaly 6 turns every citizen on Earth into a potential “person of interest” to intelligence agencies, and thus a target for recruitment, surveillance, harassment, and much, much worse, the most intimate details of their private lives easily accessible by shady actors with a few clicks of a button, and without their knowledge or consent.
December 17, 2022, 08:05:14 PM
December 17, 2022, 08:01:17 PM
December 17, 2022, 07:55:57 PM
BREAKING‼️ Binance auditor deletes the "Proof of Reserves" assessment from its website and pauses ALL work with crypto clients - including CryptoCom and KuCoin - Coindesk 
Source: https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1603709897467744257
Source: https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1603709897467744257
Haha last time I checked Coindesk was their competitor? It's like "AMD CPUs suck! News presented by Intel."
This Binance FUD is stupid and is being used by bears to try to drag us further down. Not gonna happen IMO. 
FTFY... So far our bottom is $15,479 on 11/21/22 - and so yeah, you may well be correct that it is already difficult to get the bottom to go down further, even though there seems to be a lot of desperation in the air, trying to achieve such further bottom, yet for me it continues to be difficult to assign very high odds that the bottom is actually in, until we can get some distance from the current bottom... so therefore, I cannot even get beyond 50%.. because the assessment is that we are in a bear market, we continue to be in a bear market until we are not... .. yet we ONLY know that we are no longer in the bear market when the odds for down get lower than 50%.. so.. how to achieve that kind of a confirmation remains a 2.1 quadrillion satoshis kind of a question.
Don't listen to me.. I will believe it when I see it, and you are not going to find me to be brave enough to actually make a claim about the future shows bitcoin prices going up that is anything more than 49%.. until we can extract our lil selfies into greater distances away from the current local bottom...what is that price? I don't know for sure becuae it seems to be a product of both price and time, so merely getting above the 200-week moving average (wich is currently at $24k would not even be enough for me.. even though getting above such 200-week moving average would likely inspire quite a bit of confidence... getting above the 100-week moving average would inspire even greater confidence, but that 100-week moving average is currently at $38k.. so that seems like asking way too much confirmation in order to feel like we are returning to UP and that the bottom is "in" for this cycle.
Jump to: