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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 27467. (Read 26709727 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
You don't need to solve the equations though. In a deterministic universe, if you know precisely the starting conditions, you could run a simulation and get the prediction. Chaos theory says that small perturbations in the starting conditions can lead to vastly different outcomes. Quantum physics says small perturbations are intrinsic. Even with two initially identical systems, things will occur in one which will not in the other.

This is precisely why I don't believe in the concept of free will.

Humans are too complex to model, but in the long run we won't be.

if that is true then there is a non-local hidden variable.  let's just agree right now to call it the soul, to save time.

it seems reasonable, we can call it whatever we want. soul is as good a word as any.

it does seem that there needs to be some kind of outward influence though.

or inward even, as it feels like this influence manifests itself though our actions?
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Why do people erect these walls?
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
some one is really trying to hold the price down.. this shits just guna explode once that wall is knocked isnt it.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Btc-E is ready, Seems very bullish.

Now we Need those walls taken down.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
This is precisely why I don't believe in the concept of free will.


It's not like you have a choice, right? Wink
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
How did it go back to 620 with that wall up again so fast? Did that guy dump exactly the right amount to be able to put that wall up there again? This happened in no time.
hero member
Activity: 634
Merit: 500
if that is true then there is a non-local hidden variable.  let's just agree right now to call it the soul, to save time.

I spell it sole, and I've got two.

I can't stop dancing, I'm not sure where my soles should rest.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
If $volume would indeed be required to increase linearly with price, we would expect to see constant BTCvolume. We don't: BTCvolume gently declines over time. And I agree with Peter that this is only to be expected.

While it does generally make sense to work in dollar amounts since it is more stable (Chartbuddy does this for depth scaling) , it should probably be taken into account that while bitcoin value is increasing, the value of the dollar is also decreasing (albeit at a slower rate)
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
New wall. Jesus Christ.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
You don't need to solve the equations though. In a deterministic universe, if you know precisely the starting conditions, you could run a simulation and get the prediction. Chaos theory says that small perturbations in the starting conditions can lead to vastly different outcomes. Quantum physics says small perturbations are intrinsic. Even with two initially identical systems, things will occur in one which will not in the other.

This is precisely why I don't believe in the concept of free will.

Humans are too complex to model, but in the long run we won't be.

if that is true then there is a non-local hidden variable.  let's just agree right now to call it the soul, to save time.
full member
Activity: 167
Merit: 100
And a new 600+btc ask wall is back...
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
BTC = FREEDOM IS OUR ONLY HOPE!
Someone got tired of that wall.

DISH network news is just unbelievable!! ====> watch as more U.S. corporations jump on the bandwagon!!! =))))) weee
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
BTC = FREEDOM IS OUR ONLY HOPE!
Not even sure that the small errors in the physic models are needed. The beauty of René Thom"s chaos theory is that the non-determinism lies deep within the maths.

As an example, even if you know very precisely the speed and the position of the solar's system planets, and the external perturbations, you just can't do the maths, the 3-bodies equations are already too complicated to be solved. And which planet will be ejected from the solar system is still a mystery.


You don't need to solve the equations though. In a deterministic universe, if you know precisely the starting conditions, you could run a simulation and get the prediction. Chaos theory says that small perturbations in the starting conditions can lead to vastly different outcomes. Quantum physics says small perturbations are intrinsic. Even with two initially identical systems, things will occur in one which will not in the other.

But to run a simulation you need to be able to solve the 3-body equations... Unless you're running some sort of simplified heuristic simulation, in which case it could never be absolutely deterministic anyway.

You have to distinguish practical predictability from theoretical predictability. Chaos theory (as well as the difficulty in solving 3-body equations and such) make the universe practically unpredictable. Quantum theory (and only quantum theory) make the universe theoretically unpredictable.

predictable or probabilistic?  ;-)
hero member
Activity: 634
Merit: 500
You don't need to solve the equations though. In a deterministic universe, if you know precisely the starting conditions, you could run a simulation and get the prediction. Chaos theory says that small perturbations in the starting conditions can lead to vastly different outcomes. Quantum physics says small perturbations are intrinsic. Even with two initially identical systems, things will occur in one which will not in the other.

This is precisely why I don't believe in the concept of free will.

Humans are too complex to model, but in the long run we won't be.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Anyway, despite agreeing above with Peter R.'s observation that we don't need an increase in USD volume by factor x to support a price increase of factor x

Didn't Peter say "trade volume measured in BTC"? Maybe I'm looking at the wrong observation.

The volume measured in USD is something else entirely.

This is why I asked about your confusing statement earlier.

Apologies another time for my confusing phrasing. In your quote of me above, I refer to 'fiat volume', independent of what exact fiat currency the respective exchange trades with.

And I was refering to this statement:

One could argue that Coase Theorem would suggest that trade volume measured in BTC should decrease as the distribution of bitcoins becomes more efficient (e.g., as time goes on or as adoption continues).  

If $volume would indeed be required to increase linearly with price, we would expect to see constant BTCvolume. We don't: BTCvolume gently declines over time. And I agree with Peter that this is only to be expected.


The other time when I mentioned "USD", I meant BTCvolume on those exchanges that trade against USD in particular. In other words, I dismiss Euro and CNY in the analysis.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Someone got tired of that wall.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

But to run a simulation you need to be able to solve the 3-body equations... Unless you're running some sort of simplified heuristic simulation, in which case it could never be absolutely deterministic anyway.


Absolutely not. A simulation would typically rely on the basic laws of physics, not complex solutions for particular situations.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Coming back to (xbt) volume one more time: here's a (very draft-y) motivation for my claim that I want to see eventually 300k xbt volume on the USD exchanges over three days... although that demand is perhaps a bit too high, on second thought: I demand 3 "perfect" days with 100k volume in a row -- I should revisit the exact claim.

Anyway, despite agreeing above with Peter R.'s observation that we don't need an increase in USD volume by factor x to support a price increase of factor x, there still seems to be some surprisingly constant (across vastly different price regimes) definition of 'high volume' periods, denominated in Bitcoin. That value seems to be somewhere above 100k coins per day, and until that patterns turns out to be broken in the future, I expect it to hold and will keep it in mind when judging how sustainable I consider a rally.

Here's a chart summing up volume over stamp and gox, over the past two years. Not added yet: finex and btc-e, so the values to the right are somewhat too low. Note that during the run-up to 1200, summed xbt volume spiked to above 100k several times.





There is another view (don't have it on this computer) where it becomes more clear that there is clearly a downwards trend in raw xbt volume over different price eras. My claim here however is that high volume "100k days" appear to be remarkably constant across periods (at least so far)

EDIT: just to be clear, I don't expect 100k+ volume days right now. During the late-2013 rally, they also appeared only rather late, from the SR crash onwards.

So my point isn't that I miss those high volume days during the current phase of the rally, but that because those days are still missing, we aren't in the phase of the rally yet that marks the run-up to a new ATH. I know, I know: duh!


EDIT 2: Maybe not so 'duh' after all... (from another thread)

[...]

No, most of us are talking $2000-$5000 by next MONTH, not next year.

That's exactly my point: no chance in hell. Bring on a few real spikes in volume, like the aforementioned 100k days, and we'll talk.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Yawn, someone just buy that wall already  Grin

Was hoping for abit more movement this weekend...
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